What has the Devil done that is really that bad?

Going by what is in the Bible, what has the Devil done that is so horrible?

God destroyed almost every living creature on earth
God killed the first born children of Egypt

What has the Devil done of that magnitude ?

The question "What has the devil done that is so horrible" perfectly illustrates our Age as one of popular wickedness. An Age where the willful ignorance of the majority, in choosing moral relativism over fear of consequence for actions, demonstrates the widespread success of the founders of anti-life, anti-human nature, anti-logic philosophies in convincing hundreds of millions and more people to approach fundamental right and wrong as a social construct of ultimately low importance and variability, since concepts of right and wrong can be intellectualized or redefined to suit a given situation, or intellectualized away, out of the way and without consequence--altogether. The universal attractiveness lies in the deceptive promise that ultimate freedom removes the individual from personal responsibility and the consequences of bad actions or deeds.

Nearly every major religion embraces the personification of dualism: competing forces locked in eternal struggle for domination of mankind and the world--creation vs. destruction, life vs. death, light vs. darkness, wisdom vs. foolishness, truth vs. lie, right vs. wrong, and light vs. darkness. In one of the most ancient religions known to modern man, Zoroastrianism, we find perhaps the near beginnings of the personified concept or embodiment of archfiend or chief adversary of life, logic, light and wisdom, as a symbol possibly associated with and derived from the Scythian serpent god Afrasiâb--god of perhaps the ancient Persian's most feared enemy or enemy god.

Hinduism, while arguably much more ancient than Zoroastrianism and far more complex than Judeo-Christian monotheism, has also accounted for personification of antithesis to its Trimurti of prime creation/benevolent deities, in demons, giants, Kali as light/dark and many others less clearly demarcated by purely good/evil black and white boundaries, yet manages to distinguish well between all powerful, personified forces of evil capable of influencing Man and even intervening in his historical timelines.

In ancient Greece we find the Chthonic or underworld deities including Hades, a god of the underworld and god of wealth; of wealth being perhaps an excellent token or symbol representative of human darkness, abuse and greed. Mictlantecuhtli in Aztec creation mythology is/was a god of death and the underworld whose worship involved cannibalism--an excellent as it is horrifying personification of evil or anti-life. In ancient Egypt there was Apep, another serpent deity who embodied or personified chaos, or darkness, in eternal opposition to light and wisdom and civilization.

So you can plainly see human history since time immemorial is overabundant with examples of belief in the personification and embodiment of "un-created" or deity-like beings of evil capable of both influencing mankind or leading him against life and human nature, and even intervening in his history to change its course for the worse.

At last we arrive at Judeo-Christian belief in the above described personification of evil, or anti-creation and anti-life. In Genesis chapter 3 we find the serpent tempting an as yet unnamed Eve into eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil who in turn convinces Adam to do the same, thus incurring all kinds of wrath from God for their lack of personal responsibility. Many, many interpretations of the Eden serpent-identity exist, however, when taken in the context of the many creation/anti-creation beliefs of other religions involving the serpent as symbol or personification of darkness/chaos/anti-life/anti-good/anti-wisdom, in my opinion, its meaning or identity becomes very clear.

Also in Genesis chapter 3 God curses the serpent to an eternal, unpleasant fate (possible representation of being cast down out of heaven), curses both Adam and Eve as a result of the serpents successful influence or interference, and seems to verbally comment on the threat of the first man and women becoming like "the gods" and lastly, places an eternal guardian on the tree of life to keep mortal men away from it and allegedly away from a final step required to become godlike. All results/consequences of the devil's interference in God's plan for Man?

(How?) Much later in the New Testament Christ's interactions with the devil better establish its personification as a being who embodies ultimate veneration of the flesh and the mundane, the re-creation or mutilation of all God has created, of rebellion against God, defiance of Christ's teachings and self for/as the path to ultimate salvation/eternal life, and essentially, antithesis of light, truth, wisdom, logic, human nature, righteousness and good. Thus, to stand for or worship or even to commit no act of (willful) ignorance other than denying the devil's existence or questioning what is so bad about it, one accepts or condones its wisdom over God's, and all the chaotic anti-human darkness it personifies. Good luck with that.

Now, delving into the philosophy and psychology of the devil-mankind relationship, let us begin with God and Logos as ultimate representation of The Father. The Father (eternal, infinite) and the father (biological one) both represent wisdom. The First embodies endless, most primeval (galactically speaking) wisdom, while the second embodies wisdom handed down both ancestrally (of generational father-to-son teachings) and of the flesh in genetic material and ancient instinct. In defying the Father, we sin, both against the Logos within us and without, and against self and other people--in arrogance of claiming to know better. In defying the father, we believe we know more than or are wiser than, all the generations who came before us, and the survival lessons required for them to learn and practice for us to exist, not to mention defiance of our ancient instinct, passed down biologically. To summarize, defying earthly or Heavenly fathers, at its core, means we think we are wiser (know more) than either or both, which is a really, really damn bad thing to think, and an even worse life philosophy on which to base our actions and rules for living.

The devil enters the picture in tempting us away from the Father's wisdom or into believe we know better. The devil represents peer pressure "on high" as the boy who convinces us to play in the falling down empty factory building or smoke our first cigarette. But the devil's lethal to human life and future on Earth threat is not in its initial temptation or influence to defy the father. Rather, the devil's first temptation often seems to lead to what looks like commission of a small act of defiance which then snowballs after the fact into catenae or entire chains of escalating bad and defiant behaviors. For example, it tempts you into that abandoned building. Once inside you fool around setting small fires, breaking glass, toppling old machinery. Then, when you try to escape the burning structure, you run, trip over a fallen machine, fall through the floor and shards of glass slice you to ribbons. Ultimately, you're scarred for life over half your body and whole surrounding neighborhoods burn down. Fun, fun.

Perhaps a beginning of the Age of ignorance and denial of the personification of primordial evil was the discovery of electricity. Prior to electricity and widespread intense indoor lighting, sundown brought a heavier, more primal darkness against which men stood heavy vigil even in the bobbing ever waning light of oil lamp and candle, until each dawn came at last to burn away his deepest fears lurking within night dark spaces and within his own mind. Could we have been so foolish to believe "manmade" light could also illuminate the darkest corners of antiquity within and without of our thoughts and plane of existence?

Of course the nascence of scientific thinking disproved many of Man's most intimate, longest held myths, ultimately making us less terrified of our own shadows and of the sun sinking below the horizon each evening. Without the proliferation of science, art, philosophy and ultimately logic and reasoning, what dark age would still envelop our lives to this day?

Nevertheless, I along with many millions of others believe that certain ancient wisdom; wisdom extant since the first man breathed his first breath, remains as true and important for our survival now as it was then. Even though we can as a race explain away many, many dark myths and demons of the past as symbology for the now better understood projection of human thought, the devil--or concept of the personification of evil--will never be one of them. There's just too much ancient wisdom evinced across too many radically different cultures since our beginning to dismiss the likelihood of Its existence. Ask yourself just what kind of level of arrogance you'd need to possess in order to deny or dismiss thousands of years of our forefather's teachings, let alone the living Words of the Father, because you think you know better. You'd require the Mount Everest of arrogance for that.

But, after all, they say the devil is in the details.

tl;dr
 
St Michael, Lucifer, devil....

lets's not forget 1/3 of the angels followed him

why?

one has to pick it out of the grand biblical metaphor , Genesis

God created humans , but humans lacked self awareness or free will

Thus the apple, the dispute, the banishing....

Adam/Eve started wearing fig leaves after the snake appeared...
adam-and-eve-disappearing-fig-leaves-mug%20(1).JPG

~S~

Humans had both self-awareness and free will, actually. If they didn't have free will they would have had no choices. If there are no choices, there's no love. That is in fact why God put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden and gave them a choice whether or not to eat of it. That's a choice of free will and it was a way for them to express their love of Him--whether to obey or not.

At the tempting of Satan they made the tragic choice to disobey God's command. THEN they saw their nakedness as sin and were banished from the Garden.
 
St Michael, Lucifer, devil....

lets's not forget 1/3 of the angels followed him

why?

one has to pick it out of the grand biblical metaphor , Genesis

God created humans , but humans lacked self awareness or free will

Thus the apple, the dispute, the banishing....

Adam/Eve started wearing fig leaves after the snake appeared...
adam-and-eve-disappearing-fig-leaves-mug%20(1).JPG

~S~

Humans had both self-awareness and free will, actually. If they didn't have free will they would have had no choices. If there are no choices, there's no love. That is in fact why God put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden and gave them a choice whether or not to eat of it. That's a choice of free will and it was a way for them to express their love of Him--whether to obey or not.

At the tempting of Satan they made the tragic choice to disobey God's command. THEN they saw their nakedness as sin and were banished from the Garden.
Being naked is not a sin
 
St Michael, Lucifer, devil....

lets's not forget 1/3 of the angels followed him

why?

one has to pick it out of the grand biblical metaphor , Genesis

God created humans , but humans lacked self awareness or free will

Thus the apple, the dispute, the banishing....

Adam/Eve started wearing fig leaves after the snake appeared...
adam-and-eve-disappearing-fig-leaves-mug%20(1).JPG

~S~

Humans had both self-awareness and free will, actually. If they didn't have free will they would have had no choices. If there are no choices, there's no love. That is in fact why God put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden and gave them a choice whether or not to eat of it. That's a choice of free will and it was a way for them to express their love of Him--whether to obey or not.

At the tempting of Satan they made the tragic choice to disobey God's command. THEN they saw their nakedness as sin and were banished from the Garden.
Being naked is not a sin

You have aptly demonstrated that you may be the very last person on the planet I would look to for advice on what is and what is not a sin.

You are so confused that you think Satan himself gives good advice.
 
St Michael, Lucifer, devil....

lets's not forget 1/3 of the angels followed him

why?

one has to pick it out of the grand biblical metaphor , Genesis

God created humans , but humans lacked self awareness or free will

Thus the apple, the dispute, the banishing....

Adam/Eve started wearing fig leaves after the snake appeared...
adam-and-eve-disappearing-fig-leaves-mug%20(1).JPG

~S~

Humans had both self-awareness and free will, actually. If they didn't have free will they would have had no choices. If there are no choices, there's no love. That is in fact why God put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden and gave them a choice whether or not to eat of it. That's a choice of free will and it was a way for them to express their love of Him--whether to obey or not.

At the tempting of Satan they made the tragic choice to disobey God's command. THEN they saw their nakedness as sin and were banished from the Garden.
Being naked is not a sin

You have aptly demonstrated that you may be the very last person on the planet I would look to for advice on what is and what is not a sin.

You are so confused that you think Satan himself gives good advice.
Being naked is not a sin.

Going against what they already knew was right, what God told them, is the sin.

Becoming aware of their nakedness was them becoming aware of the guilt associated with going against God..


People do not feel any guilt about anything until they do something that they know is wrong..
 
St Michael, Lucifer, devil....

lets's not forget 1/3 of the angels followed him

why?

one has to pick it out of the grand biblical metaphor , Genesis

God created humans , but humans lacked self awareness or free will

Thus the apple, the dispute, the banishing....

Adam/Eve started wearing fig leaves after the snake appeared...
adam-and-eve-disappearing-fig-leaves-mug%20(1).JPG

~S~

Humans had both self-awareness and free will, actually. If they didn't have free will they would have had no choices. If there are no choices, there's no love. That is in fact why God put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden and gave them a choice whether or not to eat of it. That's a choice of free will and it was a way for them to express their love of Him--whether to obey or not.

At the tempting of Satan they made the tragic choice to disobey God's command. THEN they saw their nakedness as sin and were banished from the Garden.
Being naked is not a sin

You have aptly demonstrated that you may be the very last person on the planet I would look to for advice on what is and what is not a sin.

You are so confused that you think Satan himself gives good advice.
Being naked is not a sin.

Going against what they already knew was right, what God told them, is the sin.

Becoming aware of their nakedness was them becoming aware of the guilt associated with going against God..


People do not feel any guilt about anything until they do something that they know is wrong..
So god makes 2 beings, finds them a tad dull, so to spice things up, he gives them independent thought and actions, and the first thing they do displeases god, so he throws a tantrum and kicks them out of his house. Sounds like a total douchebag.
 
St Michael, Lucifer, devil....

lets's not forget 1/3 of the angels followed him

why?

one has to pick it out of the grand biblical metaphor , Genesis

God created humans , but humans lacked self awareness or free will

Thus the apple, the dispute, the banishing....

Adam/Eve started wearing fig leaves after the snake appeared...
adam-and-eve-disappearing-fig-leaves-mug%20(1).JPG

~S~

Humans had both self-awareness and free will, actually. If they didn't have free will they would have had no choices. If there are no choices, there's no love. That is in fact why God put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden and gave them a choice whether or not to eat of it. That's a choice of free will and it was a way for them to express their love of Him--whether to obey or not.

At the tempting of Satan they made the tragic choice to disobey God's command. THEN they saw their nakedness as sin and were banished from the Garden.
Being naked is not a sin

You have aptly demonstrated that you may be the very last person on the planet I would look to for advice on what is and what is not a sin.

You are so confused that you think Satan himself gives good advice.
OK....I will have to concede the point

Maybe you being naked, is a sin
 
St Michael, Lucifer, devil....

lets's not forget 1/3 of the angels followed him

why?

one has to pick it out of the grand biblical metaphor , Genesis

God created humans , but humans lacked self awareness or free will

Thus the apple, the dispute, the banishing....

Adam/Eve started wearing fig leaves after the snake appeared...
adam-and-eve-disappearing-fig-leaves-mug%20(1).JPG

~S~

Humans had both self-awareness and free will, actually. If they didn't have free will they would have had no choices. If there are no choices, there's no love. That is in fact why God put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden and gave them a choice whether or not to eat of it. That's a choice of free will and it was a way for them to express their love of Him--whether to obey or not.

At the tempting of Satan they made the tragic choice to disobey God's command. THEN they saw their nakedness as sin and were banished from the Garden.
Being naked is not a sin

You have aptly demonstrated that you may be the very last person on the planet I would look to for advice on what is and what is not a sin.

You are so confused that you think Satan himself gives good advice.
OK....I will have to concede the point

Maybe you being naked, is a sin

Lowest form of personal insult means you have nothing left to argue, but I already knew that. I knew that when you refused to read two chapters of the Bible but had no problem misrepresenting it.
 
St Michael, Lucifer, devil....

lets's not forget 1/3 of the angels followed him

why?

one has to pick it out of the grand biblical metaphor , Genesis

God created humans , but humans lacked self awareness or free will

Thus the apple, the dispute, the banishing....

Adam/Eve started wearing fig leaves after the snake appeared...
adam-and-eve-disappearing-fig-leaves-mug%20(1).JPG

~S~

Humans had both self-awareness and free will, actually. If they didn't have free will they would have had no choices. If there are no choices, there's no love. That is in fact why God put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden and gave them a choice whether or not to eat of it. That's a choice of free will and it was a way for them to express their love of Him--whether to obey or not.

At the tempting of Satan they made the tragic choice to disobey God's command. THEN they saw their nakedness as sin and were banished from the Garden.


I'll agree to most of that Sue

the Tree of knowledge is a grand metaphor for being aware of good / evil

for humankind to know the difference , was to allow humankind to choose

thus the apple was free will , the celestial disagreement

~S~
 
St Michael, Lucifer, devil....

lets's not forget 1/3 of the angels followed him

why?

one has to pick it out of the grand biblical metaphor , Genesis

God created humans , but humans lacked self awareness or free will

Thus the apple, the dispute, the banishing....

Adam/Eve started wearing fig leaves after the snake appeared...
adam-and-eve-disappearing-fig-leaves-mug%20(1).JPG

~S~

Humans had both self-awareness and free will, actually. If they didn't have free will they would have had no choices. If there are no choices, there's no love. That is in fact why God put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden and gave them a choice whether or not to eat of it. That's a choice of free will and it was a way for them to express their love of Him--whether to obey or not.

At the tempting of Satan they made the tragic choice to disobey God's command. THEN they saw their nakedness as sin and were banished from the Garden.


I'll agree to most of that Sue

the Tree of knowledge is a grand metaphor for being aware of good / evil

for humankind to know the difference , was to allow humankind to choose

thus the apple was free will , the celestial disagreement

~S~

I believe the Bible is the Word of God, and much of it is historical.

But personally, I find the first few chapters of Genesis full of mystery. Do not get me wrong--I think there was a Garden of Eden. I think there was a Creation, I think there was a Tree. But the language is very lofty and high. I has always seemed to me as if God is telling us a so much that we can't understand--yet--and so He couches it in much 'coded' language.

I'm okay with that. He wouldn't be much of a God if I could figure Him all out, Heaven help us. So many people want to figure all the mysteries of God out--and then wonder why He would be worthy of worship. Well, He wouldn't, if you could figure Him out.
 
St Michael, Lucifer, devil....

lets's not forget 1/3 of the angels followed him

why?

one has to pick it out of the grand biblical metaphor , Genesis

God created humans , but humans lacked self awareness or free will

Thus the apple, the dispute, the banishing....

Adam/Eve started wearing fig leaves after the snake appeared...
adam-and-eve-disappearing-fig-leaves-mug%20(1).JPG

~S~

Humans had both self-awareness and free will, actually. If they didn't have free will they would have had no choices. If there are no choices, there's no love. That is in fact why God put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden and gave them a choice whether or not to eat of it. That's a choice of free will and it was a way for them to express their love of Him--whether to obey or not.

At the tempting of Satan they made the tragic choice to disobey God's command. THEN they saw their nakedness as sin and were banished from the Garden.


I'll agree to most of that Sue

the Tree of knowledge is a grand metaphor for being aware of good / evil

for humankind to know the difference , was to allow humankind to choose

thus the apple was free will , the celestial disagreement

~S~

I believe the Bible is the Word of God, and much of it is historical.

But personally, I find the first few chapters of Genesis full of mystery. Do not get me wrong--I think there was a Garden of Eden. I think there was a Creation, I think there was a Tree. But the language is very lofty and high. I has always seemed to me as if God is telling us a so much that we can't understand--yet--and so He couches it in much 'coded' language.

I'm okay with that. He wouldn't be much of a God if I could figure Him all out, Heaven help us. So many people want to figure all the mysteries of God out--and then wonder why He would be worthy of worship. Well, He wouldn't, if you could figure Him out.
If I could figure out that god is actually real, I'd have way more respect for the dude, or dudette.

So you actually think that the world was made in 6 days? Do you realize that science has proven otherwise?
 
Going by what is in the Bible, what has the Devil done that is so horrible?

God destroyed almost every living creature on earth
God killed the first born children of Egypt

What has the Devil done of that magnitude ?

he has stolen your soul and those of others that reject God.

Kind of an abstract concept.

God destroyed almost every living thing on the planet. Rejecting someone who would do such an evil thing is understandable.

Seems those who wrote the Bible got to pick their side.

You think too small...…..The realm of God, and the spirit world is beyond human understanding.

You and other non-believers keep trying to fit God (category 10 hurricane) into your little box, it doesn't work
About what I expected

As a human, you cannot understand

As a human, I do understand
I understand acts that are petty and vindictive. I understand an act done out of anger, I understand unjust punishments.

If these acts were coming from a Devil, I could understand
Not when they come from a superior being

Do you have kids??? When one of them has ever disobeyed you, didn't you discipline them? To teach them a lesson? And what if the kid kept doing the wrong and each time do it in a more rebellious way? Doesn't your punishments become more strict with each deliberate wrong??? Similar idea
We do not kill our kids for correction! It's mans bible not gods! Man is responsible for his own evil! Man does not want to take responsibiilty for it so they create the devil to blame it on!
 
St Michael, Lucifer, devil....

lets's not forget 1/3 of the angels followed him

why?

one has to pick it out of the grand biblical metaphor , Genesis

God created humans , but humans lacked self awareness or free will

Thus the apple, the dispute, the banishing....

Adam/Eve started wearing fig leaves after the snake appeared...
adam-and-eve-disappearing-fig-leaves-mug%20(1).JPG

~S~

Humans had both self-awareness and free will, actually. If they didn't have free will they would have had no choices. If there are no choices, there's no love. That is in fact why God put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden and gave them a choice whether or not to eat of it. That's a choice of free will and it was a way for them to express their love of Him--whether to obey or not.

At the tempting of Satan they made the tragic choice to disobey God's command. THEN they saw their nakedness as sin and were banished from the Garden.
Being naked is not a sin

You have aptly demonstrated that you may be the very last person on the planet I would look to for advice on what is and what is not a sin.

You are so confused that you think Satan himself gives good advice.
OK....I will have to concede the point

Maybe you being naked, is a sin

Lowest form of personal insult means you have nothing left to argue, but I already knew that. I knew that when you refused to read two chapters of the Bible but had no problem misrepresenting it.
Sorry...but you stepped into that one
 
he has stolen your soul and those of others that reject God.

Kind of an abstract concept.

God destroyed almost every living thing on the planet. Rejecting someone who would do such an evil thing is understandable.

Seems those who wrote the Bible got to pick their side.

You think too small...…..The realm of God, and the spirit world is beyond human understanding.

You and other non-believers keep trying to fit God (category 10 hurricane) into your little box, it doesn't work
About what I expected

As a human, you cannot understand

As a human, I do understand
I understand acts that are petty and vindictive. I understand an act done out of anger, I understand unjust punishments.

If these acts were coming from a Devil, I could understand
Not when they come from a superior being

Do you have kids??? When one of them has ever disobeyed you, didn't you discipline them? To teach them a lesson? And what if the kid kept doing the wrong and each time do it in a more rebellious way? Doesn't your punishments become more strict with each deliberate wrong??? Similar idea
We do not kill our kids for correction! It's mans bible not gods! Man is responsible for his own evil! Man does not want to take responsibiilty for it so they create the devil to blame it on!

Absolutely

To set up a creature like Satan that you can blame for your own poor decisions and shortcomings is a work of man
 
god made man--yes?
man has murdered/destroyed/hated/raped/robbed/etc
 

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