What happens when you follow the constitution at an internal DHS checkpoint?

[JBeukema]

Everyone in this story did what they were supposed to.

What's with the faux outrage?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"I'm not going to be answering any questions under the protection granted via the 5th amendment of the constitution of the United States.


In court, that's known to the jury as a confession...

The guy's an idiot and a prick who gave them plenty of reason to be suspicious.

That must explain why you are not a judge, you think a person is automatically guilty for asserting their right to remain silent. The only smart thing to do if you are a suspect in any criminal investigation is remain silent. Cops know this, which is why their unions are lobbying for any LEO involved in a shooting not to be question for 48 hours after said shooting, and none of them ever answer questions without at least a union rep being present. Innocent people can say things that are incriminating, like making small mistakes about details that are later used to prove that they are lying. Only guilty people lie, so they must have done something.

Only idiots assume police are on their side, and they usually end up in jail after making that assumption.

Wrong. You've been stopped and detained. Refuse to provide ID? Then you can be taken into police custody until you are identified and it is confirmed that you have no warrants etc. Not to mention that you're operating a motor vehicle....

He was not stopped and detained by the CHP, and it was entirely up to the CHP officer how he responded to the situation. He allowed the young man to speak to him out of the hearing of the agents, and, apparently, only made sure that the license was valid and that he looked like the picture on the license. Police do not automatically run a check for warrants every time they speak to you, and do not always arrest you if you have a warrant. The law on this is iffy, as California law only requires a person to identity themselves to the police if they have probable cause to stop them. I am not sure what would have happened if he elected not to ID himself to the CHP officer, but police do not have a right to detain people indefinitely without probable cause, and not answering questions is not probable cause.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I did not say that ICE cannot ask the question

asking a person about citizenship is not legal.

So are you a liar, a retard, or both?

You are definitely both.

 

[JBeukema]

"I'm not going to be answering any questions under the protection granted via the 5th amendment of the constitution of the United States.


In court, that's known to the jury as a confession...

The guy's an idiot and a prick who gave them plenty of reason to be suspicious.

That must explain why you are not a judge, you think a person is automatically guilty for asserting their right to remain silent.

I never said that. I simply pointed out how it sounds to a jury.

He was not stopped and detained by the CHP

He was stopped and detained by an LEO. That's the important bit.

 

[JBeukema]

I did not say that ICE cannot ask the question

asking a person about citizenship is not legal.

So are you a liar, a retard, or both?

You are definitely both.

Well, that explains it

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Unless you have broken a law that have no legal authority to stop you, period.

Fail.

The standard has to do with reasonable suspicion- not having already been convicted of the crime you're now being stopped for.

Dumbass.

Ultra fail.

The standard is probable cause, not reasonable suspicion. Not that that has any relevance to his point, which is what he thinks the standard should be.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"I'm not going to be answering any questions under the protection granted via the 5th amendment of the constitution of the United States.


In court, that's known to the jury as a confession...

The guy's an idiot and a prick who gave them plenty of reason to be suspicious.

That must explain why you are not a judge, you think a person is automatically guilty for asserting their right to remain silent.

I never said that. I simply pointed out how it sounds to a jury.

No it doesn't, that is what you think it sounds like to you. Juries quite often find people not guilty if they remain silent, and sometimes even if the defense presents absolutely no case at all. That makes you wrong. Again.

He was not stopped and detained by the CHP

He was stopped and detained by an LEO. That's the important bit.

Then why did he get away without IDing himself to said LEO?

 

[JBeukema]

He identified himself to authorities, dumbass. Read the link. He just handed his card to a different LEO.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So are you a liar, a retard, or both?

both.

Well, that explains it

Usually I let shit like this slide, but this is egregious.

I did not say that ICE cannot ask the question

asking a person about citizenship is not legal.

So are you a liar, a retard, or both?

You are definitely both.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

He identified himself to authorities, dumbass. Read the link. He just handed his card to a different LEO.

You can state the obvious, if only you could think. He still failed to ID himself to ICE, and that, according to you, is illegal, and they had the right to detain him until they knew who he was. The CHP officer never passed on his ID to ICE, so they are still standing there today wondering who the fuck made them look like idiots.

Who is the dumbass now?

 

[SFC Ollie]

He identified himself to authorities, dumbass. Read the link. He just handed his card to a different LEO.

You can state the obvious, if only you could think. He still failed to ID himself to ICE, and that, according to you, is illegal, and they had the right to detain him until they knew who he was. The CHP officer never passed on his ID to ICE, so they are still standing there today wondering who the fuck made them look like idiots.

Who is the dumbass now?

And you think this joker is a hero, someone to look up to because he was a jerk to our law enforcement personnel?

I would love to hear from some of the actual lawyers that we have on this board on this. I say that they had every right to hold him until they were assured that he was legal. Which is exactly what happened. SO the joker had to sit in the sun for 2 hours, Remember it was his choice to do so, And he was legally detained pending identification as an American.

The ICE Officers didn't care who he was only that he was American. And isn't that their job?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

He identified himself to authorities, dumbass. Read the link. He just handed his card to a different LEO.

You can state the obvious, if only you could think. He still failed to ID himself to ICE, and that, according to you, is illegal, and they had the right to detain him until they knew who he was. The CHP officer never passed on his ID to ICE, so they are still standing there today wondering who the fuck made them look like idiots.

Who is the dumbass now?

And you think this joker is a hero, someone to look up to because he was a jerk to our law enforcement personnel?

I would love to hear from some of the actual lawyers that we have on this board on this. I say that they had every right to hold him until they were assured that he was legal. Which is exactly what happened. SO the joker had to sit in the sun for 2 hours, Remember it was his choice to do so, And he was legally detained pending identification as an American.

The ICE Officers didn't care who he was only that he was American. And isn't that their job?

No, I think heroes are people who risk their lives to help others. I do not think this guy was in danger of life, or limb, at any point in time. I admire him for sticking up for his, and your, rights, but that does not make him a hero.

 

[JBeukema]

He identified himself to authorities, dumbass. Read the link. He just handed his card to a different LEO.

You can state the obvious, if only you could think. He still failed to ID himself to ICE, and that, according to you, is illegal

Do cite where I said that.

Who is the dumbass now?

you, obviously

 

[saltshaker]

Our rights are forfeited in small steps. I've seen a couple of the videos and YES the citizen was a

while exercising their rights, but the agents also knew he was within his rights. After an 1/2 hour they finally tell him that higher up said to send him on his way, that they had more important things to do then waste their time with him. They knew that from the begginning and while the guy was wasting his own time, THE AGENTS were wasting theirs.

Reasons for never talking to police: The first is a law professor and the second a Detective. The detectives (to me) is more interesting and he agrees with the professor.He did interorgations in the navy, sat in on interorgations in Spain and Italy where he states that they start out physically. He states that people are stupid, people are follish. THEY TALK TO THE POLICE. He tells you why you shouln't.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE&feature=related[/ame]

 

[SFC Ollie]

Our rights are forfeited in small steps. I've seen a couple of the videos and YES the citizen was a

while exercising their rights, but the agents also knew he was within his rights. After an 1/2 hour they finally tell him that higher up said to send him on his way, that they had more important things to do then waste their time with him. They knew that from the begginning and while the guy was wasting his own time, THE AGENTS were wasting theirs.

Reasons for never talking to police: The first is a law professor and the second a Detective. The detectives (to me) is more interesting and he agrees with the professor.He did interorgations in the navy, sat in on interorgations in Spain and Italy where he states that they start out physically. He states that people are stupid, people are follish. THEY TALK TO THE POLICE. He tells you why you shouln't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE&feature=related

And at the very end the police officer tells them "I don't try to send innocent people to jail."

You don't want to talk to an internal border patrol, fine, but remember why they are there.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

He identified himself to authorities, dumbass. Read the link. He just handed his card to a different LEO.

You can state the obvious, if only you could think. He still failed to ID himself to ICE, and that, according to you, is illegal

Do cite where I said that.

Seriously?

Wrong. You've been stopped and detained. Refuse to provide ID? Then you can be taken into police custody until you are identified and it is confirmed that you have no warrants etc. Not to mention that you're operating a motor vehicle....

He refused to answer any questions form ICE, and they never tried to obtain any information from him about his ID. If your contention is right they would have been able to take him in and fingerprint him, impound his vehicle, and get his name from his license.

 

[JBeukema]

Fail. Nowhere in that quote did I claim it was a crime to not identify yourself.

Try reading for comprehension.

 

[saltshaker]

Our rights are forfeited in small steps. I've seen a couple of the videos and YES the citizen was a

while exercising their rights, but the agents also knew he was within his rights. After an 1/2 hour they finally tell him that higher up said to send him on his way, that they had more important things to do then waste their time with him. They knew that from the begginning and while the guy was wasting his own time, THE AGENTS were wasting theirs.

Reasons for never talking to police: The first is a law professor and the second a Detective. The detectives (to me) is more interesting and he agrees with the professor.He did interorgations in the navy, sat in on interorgations in Spain and Italy where he states that they start out physically. He states that people are stupid, people are follish. THEY TALK TO THE POLICE. He tells you why you shouln't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE&feature=related

And at the very end the police officer tells them "I don't try to send innocent people to jail."

You don't want to talk to an internal border patrol, fine, but remember why they are there.

Oh, I know why they are there and I do appreciate them. That doesn't mean that I should forfeit my 4th amendment rights. If someone tells a police officer that you have ilegal drugs in your home and an officer says "I want to search your home", Do you say "why sure officer, come right in. Forget all about that warrant thing officer, I don't mind". Well why wouldn't you? After all we know why they're there. To Protect and Serve. There are times that I go over the speed limit and times I do a rollin stop at stop signs, but for the most part I obey the law. I will always be polite to LEOers but I will also always exercise my rights. They are forfieted in baby steps.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Fail. Nowhere in that quote did I claim it was a crime to not identify yourself.

Try reading for comprehension.

Yet you think they can hold you untli they ID you. How can they do that if it is not a crime?

 

[JBeukema]

They don't have to wait for me to be convicted, you dolt.


If they've reason to believe I am a criminal, then they can hold me until they confirm my identity.