What exactly is the magic number?

P@triot

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Jul 5, 2011
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We're at $17 trillion (almost) and climbing. Nobody - being honest with themselves - could possibly find that acceptable.

Yet, the Democrats all across America are screaming that Republicans are "economic terrorists" and are demanding the debt ceiling be raised.

And this raises two critical questions:

1.) What is the limit in the minds of Democrats? What is the number when you feel the debt is unacceptable if it's not $17 trillion?

2.) Why even have a debt limit if Democrats feel it should always be raised without question and without exception?
 
I have no idea, and I'd rather see less than more. However, debt to GDP in Japan is 250%. The US could probably issue as much debt as Japan. Thus, we could probably handle $35-$40 trillion in debt.
 
If as Obama said raising the debt limit to 9 trillion was unpatriotic what would doubling that number be?
 
The debt limit is a silly item.

It serves no purpose whatever.

the money is ALREADY spent, the bills are due so now is not the time to get frugality religon
 
I have no idea, and I'd rather see less than more. However, debt to GDP in Japan is 250%. The US could probably issue as much debt as Japan. Thus, we could probably handle $35-$40 trillion in debt.

And then what? For the sake of argument, lets say you are correct and and the U.S. could handle $35 - $40 trillion in debt, what is the point of taking yourself to the point of collapse? Do you think it's wise for every American to max out their credit? I sure as hell don't. So why should the government different?

Do you know what the U.S. governments debt should be? $0. Not one damn dime. There is no excuse for having debt other than irresponsible leaders who are trying to purchase votes. They want to fund every special interest to make everyone happy with them and voting for them.

At some point, the bill comes due. And we have a $17 trillion bill right now.
 
The debt limit is a silly item.

It serves no purpose whatever.

the money is ALREADY spent, the bills are due so now is not the time to get frugality religon

Just curious - do you have no limit in your house? Creditors just keep throwing money at you infinitely? :cuckoo:

The only thing that is "silly" is having debt.
 
Debt in itself is not necessarily a bad thing as long as principle and interest payments are taken into budget considerations.

But the government doesn't do that.
 
I have no idea, and I'd rather see less than more. However, debt to GDP in Japan is 250%. The US could probably issue as much debt as Japan. Thus, we could probably handle $35-$40 trillion in debt.

And then what? For the sake of argument, lets say you are correct and and the U.S. could handle $35 - $40 trillion in debt, what is the point of taking yourself to the point of collapse? Do you think it's wise for every American to max out their credit? I sure as hell don't. So why should the government different?

Do you know what the U.S. governments debt should be? $0. Not one damn dime. There is no excuse for having debt other than irresponsible leaders who are trying to purchase votes. They want to fund every special interest to make everyone happy with them and voting for them.

At some point, the bill comes due. And we have a $17 trillion bill right now.

"Then what?" I don't know. I am not saying we should get there. You asked for a number and I gave one to you.

Also, why shouldn't government go into debt? Individuals and households go into debt. So do companies. Debt is used to fund capital expenditures and investment by private interests, and to smooth out fluctuations in income. Government does this too, as it should.

Finally, what ultimately matters to an economy isn't the level of government debt. It's the level of total debt. And total debt to GDP is declining, and has been for several years. It peaked in 08, driven by private debt, not government debt. Since that time, total debt has fallen as private debt has declined (primarily through default and restructuring) faster than the increase in public debt.
 
I have no idea, and I'd rather see less than more. However, debt to GDP in Japan is 250%. The US could probably issue as much debt as Japan. Thus, we could probably handle $35-$40 trillion in debt.

And then what? For the sake of argument, lets say you are correct and and the U.S. could handle $35 - $40 trillion in debt, what is the point of taking yourself to the point of collapse? Do you think it's wise for every American to max out their credit? I sure as hell don't. So why should the government different?

Do you know what the U.S. governments debt should be? $0. Not one damn dime. There is no excuse for having debt other than irresponsible leaders who are trying to purchase votes. They want to fund every special interest to make everyone happy with them and voting for them.

At some point, the bill comes due. And we have a $17 trillion bill right now.

"Then what?" I don't know. I am not saying we should get there. You asked for a number and I gave one to you.

:lmao:

You "gave one to me"? It wasn't supposed to be an arbitrary number. It was supposed to be a specific number based on your rational thought. :eusa_doh:

My fault - I guess I have to be absurdly specific around here....
 
Debt in itself is not necessarily a bad thing as long as principle and interest payments are taken into budget considerations.

But the government doesn't do that.

That makes no sense. When you pay exponentially more for an item than it is worth because of interest, that is a very bad thing.

Debt should be a last resort emergency. Not a standard way of conducting government business.
 
I have no idea, and I'd rather see less than more. However, debt to GDP in Japan is 250%. The US could probably issue as much debt as Japan. Thus, we could probably handle $35-$40 trillion in debt.

And then what? For the sake of argument, lets say you are correct and and the U.S. could handle $35 - $40 trillion in debt, what is the point of taking yourself to the point of collapse? Do you think it's wise for every American to max out their credit? I sure as hell don't. So why should the government different?

Do you know what the U.S. governments debt should be? $0. Not one damn dime. There is no excuse for having debt other than irresponsible leaders who are trying to purchase votes. They want to fund every special interest to make everyone happy with them and voting for them.

At some point, the bill comes due. And we have a $17 trillion bill right now.

To say it should be zero is equally extreme.

Organizations have legitimate reasons to absorb debt. Not everything the government does is an entitlement which enables transferring money. Incurring debt for infrastructure items that will be utilized over an extended period of time is in fact reasonable and prudent. Heck I think you can even make a case that some basic research should be funded with debt that would be paid off with future revenue streams from that research.

What Obama did in terms of going into debt to balance out the economy was also a useful use of debt. When the Government and Warren Buffett are in the same shoes of having profited off the crises by being the lender of last resort that is a good use of debt.

Now, if you want to say we should not use debt to fund everyday entitlement payments I am right there with you.
 
The debt limit is a silly item.

It serves no purpose whatever.

the money is ALREADY spent, the bills are due so now is not the time to get frugality religon

Just curious - do you have no limit in your house? Creditors just keep throwing money at you infinitely? :cuckoo:

The only thing that is "silly" is having debt.

Debt is only bad if you are not using it to create income. Not all of the debt is bad debt.
 
I have no idea, and I'd rather see less than more. However, debt to GDP in Japan is 250%. The US could probably issue as much debt as Japan. Thus, we could probably handle $35-$40 trillion in debt.

And then what? For the sake of argument, lets say you are correct and and the U.S. could handle $35 - $40 trillion in debt, what is the point of taking yourself to the point of collapse? Do you think it's wise for every American to max out their credit? I sure as hell don't. So why should the government different?

Do you know what the U.S. governments debt should be? $0. Not one damn dime. There is no excuse for having debt other than irresponsible leaders who are trying to purchase votes. They want to fund every special interest to make everyone happy with them and voting for them.

At some point, the bill comes due. And we have a $17 trillion bill right now.

To say it should be zero is equally extreme.

Organizations have legitimate reasons to absorb debt. Not everything the government does is an entitlement which enables transferring money. Incurring debt for infrastructure items that will be utilized over an extended period of time is in fact reasonable and prudent. Heck I think you can even make a case that some basic research should be funded with debt that would be paid off with future revenue streams from that research.

What Obama did in terms of going into debt to balance out the economy was also a useful use of debt. When the Government and Warren Buffett are in the same shoes of having profited off the crises by being the lender of last resort that is a good use of debt.

Now, if you want to say we should not use debt to fund everyday entitlement payments I am right there with you.

So in your mind properly budgeting, staying within your budget, and not paying 20% more for an item than it is actually worth is "extreme" in your mind? Really? This is where we've come to as a nation - being fiscally responsible is "extreme"? :cuckoo:

God help this once great nation...
 

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