What exactly does the "Left" want?

[MaggieMae]

Some good discussion here. Please try to remain to topic.

I'm seeing a pattern here between the 2 sides, but will withhold comment on it for now.

Also, I'd like to hear more from the DEMS out there.

The new right always has the louder, fiercer voice, full of idiotic admonitions. A lot of Dems who usually post here won't even bother.

 

[Oddball]

Ok, let me propose a hypothetical situation -

Let's say I am, white, male, employed making 100k+/year, fully insured and pays taxes. Why would I support all of these "leftist" issues if almost none of them were directly benefiting me? As in, I am part of the population that does pay taxes, I don't need "free" healthcare, I am not looking to marry a man, etc...

Please, logically explain why I would support a "leftist agenda" if I fit the description of the person above.

Because you're a rational person who also recognizes that class disparity has a moral component as well?

Only if you believe in the moral superiority of covetousness.

 

[MaggieMae]

Yeah, you feel, with no further elaboration as to why....'Nuf said.


You mean that what's in it for me should be of a lesser importance than your feelings?...How selfish can you get?

LOL, that's all you got? LMAO!!!!

So now I have to prove what I think is best for the country? It's my opinion, which also happens to go completely against everything the right wingers on this board claim democrats to be and makes your ridiculous theories that liberals just want handouts to be absurd.

And I never said what I wanted is more important than what you want. I did however say that I see the value in what the country needs is more important than what I need. That's whats called being American.....look it up, you've seemed to have forgotten.

Thanks for helping me prove my point so easily though!

Oh brother......Being American isn't paying for the other guy. It's giving the other guy a chance to pay for himself, I'm all for that. If the other guy doesn't want to jump on the opportunity, then he gets what he gets. As for those who aren't able for one reason or another, we already have a safety net for them.
But, in the end no matter what your claim as what an American IS.....you sound strangely like a redistribution of wealth sort of a person.

Why doesn't anyone ever get it that there has been REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH to the top?

 

[Oddball]

Wealth isn't distributed...It's earned.

If you haven't done anything to accumulate some wealth for yourself, quit your hand-wringing blind envy of those who have.

 

[AquaAthena]

There are all kinds of arguements going on about his, but I really want to know what the "Left" really wants to see happen. What do you want to see the gov't do? Can someone please lay this out for me?

A Nanny State. They need to feel taken care of and don't mind being slaves to the government. They don't realize that utopia comes with a price that not only includes the earnings of others, but a desolation of their own souls. Misery loves company, and they want the rest of us to reduce to their level.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Ok then... what are you? This oughta be good.

I'm an American citizen, registered independent. Do I stutter?

 

[DiamondDave]

I can register IND or DEM or CON or GRE or whatever else.... that is of no consequence and it is not what he is asking

 

[Mr. Peepers]

I answered him already. My views are varied and don't always jive with one ideology or another. I don't have to listen to the day's talking heads on shouty radio shows and "commentary" and inflammatory blogs to get my "fear topics" for the day. Is that better?

 

[westwall]

Don't you fools realize that a stable, prosperous citizenry supports a stable, prosperous economy? WHY don't you get that??? We know you guys are ok with this country sliding into a third world oligarchy ruled by megacorporations, but we just don't understand why. Do you really think it is healthy for a nation's top 5% to control 95% of the wealth? That is where we are headed.

It's classic class warfare, and their class is winning. But who will be left smart enough and/or healthy enough to turn the wheels to keep the business running to provide more profit for the bossman?

You really need to read a lot more from a lot more sources. The Dems are doing more to eliminate small business than the Republicrats are. Corporations buy politicians to do their bidding. The usual desire is some form of regulation that drives their competition (small businesses) out of the market. Look around. In any state that you go to in any mall or street corner you care to look at you see the same companies. All of the others are gone. Do you not see the problem?

 

[westwall]

Don't you fools realize that a stable, prosperous citizenry supports a stable, prosperous economy? WHY don't you get that???

Huh??...If Big Daddy Big Gubmint's authoritarian meddling in economies actually worked, the USSR, Cuba, North Korea et al would've been the most prosperous nations of all time....But it doesn't so they weren't

Only brainwashed Birchers think the USA has become or will become even closely resembling Socialism, let alone Communism.

If you truly believe this you are a fool. I suggest you read the Nazi Seizure of Power by William Sheridan Allen. It does a very good job of showing how a technolgically advanced and socially progressive country was led down a very dark path. The gays were courted very early by the movement and Ernst Rohm was the leader of the SA. When the Nazi's no longer needed them they were murdered and the gays in postions of power were killed along with any others that were deemed a potential threat.

We are following many of the same paths that they followed. The 1968 Gun Control Act is nearly word for word the same as the Nazi Weapons Control Act of 1938. Bill Clinton advocated a National Labor Sevice and guess what the Germans had one of those (Reicharbeitsdienst) too! Bill didn't even bother to change its name! You can do a very little digging and see many programs initiated by the Nazi's that we are following and you don't have to be a conspiratorial kook to realize that.

 

[westwall]

"Liberals demand that the social order should in principle be capable of explaining itself at the tribunal of each person's understanding." Jeremy Waldron


"In his book Political Liberalism, John Rawls offers a general description of a liberal political outlook. He intends the description to cover views ranging from the classical liberalism of Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman, arguably in the tradition of Locke and Adam Smith, to the more egalitarian liberalism of his own Theory of Justice. Rawls writes, "the content of a liberal political conception of justice is given by three main features:

1. a specification of basic rights, liberties and opportunities (of a kind familiar from constitutional democratic regimes);

2. an assignment of special priority to those rights, liberties and opportunities, especially with respect of claims of the general good and perfectionist values; and

3. measures assuring to all citizens adequate all-purpose means to make effective use of their liberties and opportunities.

These [three] elements can be understood in different ways, so that there are many variant liberalisms."

Boston Review — Always at the After Party

Darn, it pisses me off that books like Waldron's are so darn expensive, I bought long ago, but look at Google books if you have time.

Amazon.com: Liberal Rights: Collected Papers 1981-1991 (Cambridge Studies in Philosophy and Public Policy) (9780521436175): Jeremy Waldron: Books

Well if you are going to suggest a book by Rawls how about a "Theory of Justice" where he demolishes the idea of Utilitarianism.

Here is the Wiki entry on it. I agree with a great deal of this but as is allways true there are things I don't agree with as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Theory_of_Justice

 

[RDD_1210]

What I got was you describing what makes you support the left in emotional terms....You can't un-type it.

People making their decisions on the caprice emotional responses, rather than reason, simply have no ethical compass. Therefore, your opinion of what's best for the country, let alone yourself, is suspect at best. Moreover, if your you can't explain what's in it for someone else to go along with you, other than their particular emotional response, then it's safe to say that you care little to nothing for the reasoned opinions of others.

So you want me to explain my rationale for each topic to you? LOL, feel free to look up my rationale in any of the other threads on this site if you so desperately need to know what drives my opinions.

The fact is you have no leg to stand on and have resorted to senseless rambling. You have already proven that your best explanation for my viewpoints is absurd and poorly thought out and now you're actually asking for proof of my own viewpoints. Talk about desperation mode. Ha!!! Then you proceeded to tell us about your selfish views and the fact that what's best for you is more important than whats best for the nation.

So I've already shown that you don't understand who a liberal is and at the same time showing what kind of conservative you truly are. Care to ramble on any further and dig your hole deeper?

A more self-centered attitude cannot be found.

Says then guy who only wants to know "Whats in it for me?". Ha!

 

[westwall]

LOL, that's all you got? LMAO!!!!

So now I have to prove what I think is best for the country? It's my opinion, which also happens to go completely against everything the right wingers on this board claim democrats to be and makes your ridiculous theories that liberals just want handouts to be absurd.

And I never said what I wanted is more important than what you want. I did however say that I see the value in what the country needs is more important than what I need. That's whats called being American.....look it up, you've seemed to have forgotten.

Thanks for helping me prove my point so easily though!

Oh brother......Being American isn't paying for the other guy. It's giving the other guy a chance to pay for himself, I'm all for that. If the other guy doesn't want to jump on the opportunity, then he gets what he gets. As for those who aren't able for one reason or another, we already have a safety net for them.
But, in the end no matter what your claim as what an American IS.....you sound strangely like a redistribution of wealth sort of a person.

Why doesn't anyone ever get it that there has been REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH to the top?

And when are you going to figure out that tax laws penalise the middle class. The RICH DON'T PAY TAXES! They write the damn tax laws to protect themselves from taxes. The environmental laws that the left want to pass will attack the poor and the middle class while doing nothing to curb pollution or benfit the poorer classes. The laws will, however, vastly enrich the wealthy.

 

[RDD_1210]

Wealth isn't distributed...It's earned.

If you haven't done anything to accumulate some wealth for yourself, quit your hand-wringing blind envy of those who have.

Spoken like someone who doesn't have any actual money of his own but thinks he deserves it and its the governments fault that you aren't living the "good life". Waaah!

 

[RDD_1210]

Huh??...If Big Daddy Big Gubmint's authoritarian meddling in economies actually worked, the USSR, Cuba, North Korea et al would've been the most prosperous nations of all time....But it doesn't so they weren't

Only brainwashed Birchers think the USA has become or will become even closely resembling Socialism, let alone Communism.

If you truly believe this you are a fool. I suggest you read the Nazi Seizure of Power by William Sheridan Allen. It does a very good job of showing how a technolgically advanced and socially progressive country was led down a very dark path. The gays were courted very early by the movement and Ernst Rohm was the leader of the SA. When the Nazi's no longer needed them they were murdered and the gays in postions of power were killed along with any others that were deemed a potential threat.

We are following many of the same paths that they followed. The 1968 Gun Control Act is nearly word for word the same as the Nazi Weapons Control Act of 1938. Bill Clinton advocated a National Labor Sevice and guess what the Germans had one of those (Reicharbeitsdienst) too! Bill didn't even bother to change its name! You can do a very little digging and see many programs initiated by the Nazi's that we are following and you don't have to be a conspiratorial kook to realize that.

And Hitler was an eloquent, charismatic speaker promising change just like Obama, blah blah, blah......

You storing up food for when the revolution begins?

 

[Meister]

And what safety net is that exactly?

And conservatives sound like redistribution of wealth people to me too, except that wealth is going from the bottom up.

Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and Welfare. WTF?

So you've got the elderly covered and people below the poverty line. What about middle class Americans?

What about middle class Americans????????? They're earning a living, if they want more, get another job. Afterall, I was talking about a safety net, or do you want to ignore that?
Now, why don't you go back to my previous post and answer what I have asked you....or would you just want to cut and run on that part?
Epic Fail...rdd

 

[Twofox]

The reason they become "megacorporations" is because of takeovers and mergers, where similar smaller corporations get out-competed because of the power and monied investments of the bigger ones. There are now only about five food producers in the U.S. having control over food production from seed to market shelves. Over time, small farmers and ranchers have either been swallowed up into them or put out of business.

So then the corps buying out the Govt to get things done? Yes the lobbyists run the country in alot of ways. Too many ways and that needs to stop. This is one point I think the majority of boths sides would agree with.

 

[westwall]

Only brainwashed Birchers think the USA has become or will become even closely resembling Socialism, let alone Communism.

If you truly believe this you are a fool. I suggest you read the Nazi Seizure of Power by William Sheridan Allen. It does a very good job of showing how a technolgically advanced and socially progressive country was led down a very dark path. The gays were courted very early by the movement and Ernst Rohm was the leader of the SA. When the Nazi's no longer needed them they were murdered and the gays in postions of power were killed along with any others that were deemed a potential threat.

We are following many of the same paths that they followed. The 1968 Gun Control Act is nearly word for word the same as the Nazi Weapons Control Act of 1938. Bill Clinton advocated a National Labor Sevice and guess what the Germans had one of those (Reicharbeitsdienst) too! Bill didn't even bother to change its name! You can do a very little digging and see many programs initiated by the Nazi's that we are following and you don't have to be a conspiratorial kook to realize that.

And Hitler was an eloquent, charismatic speaker promising change just like Obama, blah blah, blah......

You storing up food for when the revolution begins?

Of course not. I have a supply of food and water because I live in earthquake country so that in the event of an emergency when the rest of the people are starving my family is well taken care of. That is called responsibility. What will you do if there is an emergency?

And try leaving the silly nonsense at the door next time. Try reading a little about the world and how it operates instead of calling people names...you may actually learn something.

 

[Oddball]

Wealth isn't distributed...It's earned.

If you haven't done anything to accumulate some wealth for yourself, quit your hand-wringing blind envy of those who have.

Spoken like someone who doesn't have any actual money of his own but thinks he deserves it and its the governments fault that you aren't living the "good life". Waaah!

Actually I'm living quite a good life.

Maybe yours would be better spent minding your own damn business.

 

[Oddball]

So you want me to explain my rationale for each topic to you? LOL, feel free to look up my rationale in any of the other threads on this site if you so desperately need to know what drives my opinions.

The fact is you have no leg to stand on and have resorted to senseless rambling. You have already proven that your best explanation for my viewpoints is absurd and poorly thought out and now you're actually asking for proof of my own viewpoints. Talk about desperation mode. Ha!!! Then you proceeded to tell us about your selfish views and the fact that what's best for you is more important than whats best for the nation.

So I've already shown that you don't understand who a liberal is and at the same time showing what kind of conservative you truly are. Care to ramble on any further and dig your hole deeper?

A more self-centered attitude cannot be found.

Says then guy who only wants to know "Whats in it for me?". Ha!

Says the busybody do-gooder, who can't explain to anyone what their faux charity has in it for them.

You can't sell the idea of your own self-righteous appeals to emotion, so you have to project your selfishness onto everyone who doesn't agree with you, and force them to pony up to appease your sense of moral superiority.

The very flower of Fabian elitist arrogance.