Eightball
Senior Member
- Oct 13, 2004
- 1,359
- 253
- 48
It's interesting, but Paul mentioned that a Christian could sin even when the act they were doing wasn't normally wrong......i.e.
For instance. Your a Christian and you have a glass of wine at home or once in a while at a dinner out.
Now you invite a Christian friend over who let's say has had a real problem with addictive things or is maybe doing his or her's darndest to not drink alcohol. In other words they're an Alchoholic.
Well, you have them over for a dinner/bbq. and you and your spouse break out the old Vino, and fill your glasses and each swig a little. Now, you know that this Bro or Sis in Christ has struggled for years with Alcohol and their new faith has helped them immensely in winning over this battle with drinking. They've been dry, and booze free for quite awhile now, and you, Mr. and Mrs. Well-Adjusted Christian(lol) have a drink in front of them cause that's your freedom in Christ to do so. Now, because of this great display of Christian maturity(lol), your not-so mature dinner guest gives in and decides that maybe they could try a glass of vino or two, since it's been a long time, and maybe they can handle it now. Wa La! They go home from your house, and little known to you, they stop at Albert's Liquors at 1st and Main, and buy a bottle. The next day, they're off the wagon and back into full-blown drinking. Their Christian faith is running around "1" on a scale of 0-10, 10 being totally doing great. They now are despondent, and feel like there lives are a shamble, and Christianity isn't what it's claimed to be.
Now, we can say that this guest of ours had a choice and it's not our fault. That's not what the Apostle Paul says. He says that indeed you have the right........Oh, mature Christian to eat or drink anything( within healthful reason) you want........you can eat foods that were sacrificed to Pagan idols, if you want, if it doesn't affect your conscience.........i.e. in-other-words you just see it as food........and nothing more.........then fine! Now, if we partake in something similar to this around some believers/Christians that have just been converted out of paganism in a major way, and we eat this food, what kind of a message are we sending to them? May we be weakening their resolve to turn away from their old lives of sin?
In the case of the poor soul that started drinking again, Paul said that we must be careful to not cause our fellow believers to fall into sin.......or anything that is detrimental to their faith, as we are all one in the same body of Christ.
So what do we do? We have a nice dinner with this guest that we know came out of heavy-duty Alcoholism and is now living a new free life in Christ. We refrain from drinking spirits in front of them, and enjoy a night of milk, water, juice, soda, etc. and enjoy the fellowship and company.
We do sin if we lead a brother or sister into bondage because of our God given liberties through His Grace.
We must truly look out for one-another.
We all have weaknesses and temptations, and we must all respect and be ever watchful for one another that no one will fall into sin.
With Christian maturity comes responsibility. There are many that still are learning to not live by the Law but by grace. In fact in all of our lives, both mature and approaching mature, there are many aspects where we live by laws, and are not living out the freedom(new life) that Christ has given us through our Co-death, Co-Burial, and Co-Ressurrection(Romans 6, Galatians 2:20).
Doing things "for" the Lord is often a tip-off that this person is not serving from the stand-point of "rest" in Christ, but is still subconciously, or consciously trying to appease God by service. God needs nothing done "for" Him by us. He needs "us"! That's the "corker". Most of the activity of Christians is not done from the position of rest but from a position of "works". The self-life or I, me, and myself is still in control when we do things "for" the Lord. Most of us don't realize that we have a brand new identity when we are converted/born-again. We are no-longer a saved-sinner, but a new creature/creation, a saint. We may sin, but thats the old programming from the previous nature that was left behind at the cross, and buried forever. We sin now because we choose to. We sin because we choose to listen to the old ways still in our mind from before we were saved. Romans 12 says that are mind is being renewed. Unfortunately we listen to much of what hasn't been renewed(with the help of old Fuzzy Nose), and believe lie after lie. Sin is more than an act........it has a spiritual power behind it, administered by the author of sin..........old Lucifer himself. He still has access to our minds via our unredeemable flesh. Yet, we are brandnew inside. The old sinful nature was dumped at the cross, and we were given a new nature that isn't comfortable with sin. This is why we have Roman's 7 struggles. So many preachers and unfortunately theologians erroneously teach that us Christians fight a dual personality struggle with both our old Adamic nature and our new Nature in Christ. This is both totally unbiblical and dangerously detrimental to the Christian.
Sin in a truly converted or born again person's life is a struggle against both his old thoughts prior to conversion, and sin's work through ones flesh or body. Romans 6,7,and 8 make this very clear.
Christ needs/wants to be at the helm. The saying, "God is my co-pilot", is really unbiblical. That just means I'm in control and God is here to help me. God needs to be the "pilot" and there is no need for a co-pilot. I need to just resolve to be the passenger, and let Him fly me where He chooses.
This isn't a call to laziness and pacificism, it's a call to trust that whatever comes your way in your life is what was supposed to come your way. It means, not taking the limelight necessarily. It might mean, not getting to become the all-knowing preacher of the gospel, or a missionary. It means letting His will be done, not "mine" be done. That's a painful wake-up call and reality.
Most sin on the part of Christians is a result of who's in control. When we live in dependence to Christ......"His will not mine", the desires for recognition, material gain, noteriety, revenge, beauty, etc. all become fleeting, fading needs.
Paul said, "For me to live is Christ, to die is none but gain." Paul wasn't talking suicidal thoughts, but putting into perspective where the rubber meets the road in the Christian life. Christ was everything to him. Christ was on his mind every day of his life after his dramatic conversion during his trip to Damascas(spelling?).
Oh......looks like I got off-topic.........
Anyway, we may not be sinning or hurting our own lives, but we could still lead another to sin via our liberty in Christ. Paul says that means we have sinned then.
We are our brother's keepers.
For instance. Your a Christian and you have a glass of wine at home or once in a while at a dinner out.
Now you invite a Christian friend over who let's say has had a real problem with addictive things or is maybe doing his or her's darndest to not drink alcohol. In other words they're an Alchoholic.
Well, you have them over for a dinner/bbq. and you and your spouse break out the old Vino, and fill your glasses and each swig a little. Now, you know that this Bro or Sis in Christ has struggled for years with Alcohol and their new faith has helped them immensely in winning over this battle with drinking. They've been dry, and booze free for quite awhile now, and you, Mr. and Mrs. Well-Adjusted Christian(lol) have a drink in front of them cause that's your freedom in Christ to do so. Now, because of this great display of Christian maturity(lol), your not-so mature dinner guest gives in and decides that maybe they could try a glass of vino or two, since it's been a long time, and maybe they can handle it now. Wa La! They go home from your house, and little known to you, they stop at Albert's Liquors at 1st and Main, and buy a bottle. The next day, they're off the wagon and back into full-blown drinking. Their Christian faith is running around "1" on a scale of 0-10, 10 being totally doing great. They now are despondent, and feel like there lives are a shamble, and Christianity isn't what it's claimed to be.
Now, we can say that this guest of ours had a choice and it's not our fault. That's not what the Apostle Paul says. He says that indeed you have the right........Oh, mature Christian to eat or drink anything( within healthful reason) you want........you can eat foods that were sacrificed to Pagan idols, if you want, if it doesn't affect your conscience.........i.e. in-other-words you just see it as food........and nothing more.........then fine! Now, if we partake in something similar to this around some believers/Christians that have just been converted out of paganism in a major way, and we eat this food, what kind of a message are we sending to them? May we be weakening their resolve to turn away from their old lives of sin?
In the case of the poor soul that started drinking again, Paul said that we must be careful to not cause our fellow believers to fall into sin.......or anything that is detrimental to their faith, as we are all one in the same body of Christ.
So what do we do? We have a nice dinner with this guest that we know came out of heavy-duty Alcoholism and is now living a new free life in Christ. We refrain from drinking spirits in front of them, and enjoy a night of milk, water, juice, soda, etc. and enjoy the fellowship and company.
We do sin if we lead a brother or sister into bondage because of our God given liberties through His Grace.
We must truly look out for one-another.
We all have weaknesses and temptations, and we must all respect and be ever watchful for one another that no one will fall into sin.
With Christian maturity comes responsibility. There are many that still are learning to not live by the Law but by grace. In fact in all of our lives, both mature and approaching mature, there are many aspects where we live by laws, and are not living out the freedom(new life) that Christ has given us through our Co-death, Co-Burial, and Co-Ressurrection(Romans 6, Galatians 2:20).
Doing things "for" the Lord is often a tip-off that this person is not serving from the stand-point of "rest" in Christ, but is still subconciously, or consciously trying to appease God by service. God needs nothing done "for" Him by us. He needs "us"! That's the "corker". Most of the activity of Christians is not done from the position of rest but from a position of "works". The self-life or I, me, and myself is still in control when we do things "for" the Lord. Most of us don't realize that we have a brand new identity when we are converted/born-again. We are no-longer a saved-sinner, but a new creature/creation, a saint. We may sin, but thats the old programming from the previous nature that was left behind at the cross, and buried forever. We sin now because we choose to. We sin because we choose to listen to the old ways still in our mind from before we were saved. Romans 12 says that are mind is being renewed. Unfortunately we listen to much of what hasn't been renewed(with the help of old Fuzzy Nose), and believe lie after lie. Sin is more than an act........it has a spiritual power behind it, administered by the author of sin..........old Lucifer himself. He still has access to our minds via our unredeemable flesh. Yet, we are brandnew inside. The old sinful nature was dumped at the cross, and we were given a new nature that isn't comfortable with sin. This is why we have Roman's 7 struggles. So many preachers and unfortunately theologians erroneously teach that us Christians fight a dual personality struggle with both our old Adamic nature and our new Nature in Christ. This is both totally unbiblical and dangerously detrimental to the Christian.
Sin in a truly converted or born again person's life is a struggle against both his old thoughts prior to conversion, and sin's work through ones flesh or body. Romans 6,7,and 8 make this very clear.
Christ needs/wants to be at the helm. The saying, "God is my co-pilot", is really unbiblical. That just means I'm in control and God is here to help me. God needs to be the "pilot" and there is no need for a co-pilot. I need to just resolve to be the passenger, and let Him fly me where He chooses.
This isn't a call to laziness and pacificism, it's a call to trust that whatever comes your way in your life is what was supposed to come your way. It means, not taking the limelight necessarily. It might mean, not getting to become the all-knowing preacher of the gospel, or a missionary. It means letting His will be done, not "mine" be done. That's a painful wake-up call and reality.
Most sin on the part of Christians is a result of who's in control. When we live in dependence to Christ......"His will not mine", the desires for recognition, material gain, noteriety, revenge, beauty, etc. all become fleeting, fading needs.
Paul said, "For me to live is Christ, to die is none but gain." Paul wasn't talking suicidal thoughts, but putting into perspective where the rubber meets the road in the Christian life. Christ was everything to him. Christ was on his mind every day of his life after his dramatic conversion during his trip to Damascas(spelling?).
Oh......looks like I got off-topic.........
Anyway, we may not be sinning or hurting our own lives, but we could still lead another to sin via our liberty in Christ. Paul says that means we have sinned then.
We are our brother's keepers.
