What ever happened to the "We'll Stand Down as the Stand Up" strategy

[Gunny]

Here's a fundamental test of your honesty gunny:

Gunny: "Again, nobody sold Iraq as cheap, quick or easy but you lefties"


Within a span of 5 minutes I gave you quotes from Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, and the Director of USAID. All painting rosy scenarios.

Was this statement of yours false?

Gunny: "Again, nobody sold Iraq as cheap, quick or easy but you lefties"

I see. So it is playing semantics you are all about. And you have the balls to call ME dishonest.

If you're done dicking around with people expressing their opinions, be so kind as to produce and official statement from Bush that said the war would be cheap. quick and easy. If you can't, you lose. THAT was the original accusation, and the one I responded to. And for all your trying to blow smoke up everyone's ass, I don't see a statement from President Bush that says, "Iraq will be cheap, quick and easy."

 

[Gunny]

It's like pulling teeth to get him to admit his statement was false.

Why is that? I've made plenty of wrong statements. And I've been a man with honor, and admitted them.

When I make them I am more than willing to admit to it. I'm just not going to admit to being wrong to your dishonest word-games.

 

[DeadCanDance]

I see. So it is playing semantics you are all about. And you have the balls to call ME dishonest.

If you're done dicking around with people expressing their opinions, be so kind as to produce and official statement from Bush that said the war would be cheap. quick and easy. If you can't, you lose. THAT was the original accusation, and the one I responded to. And for all your trying to blow smoke up everyone's ass, I don't see a statement from President Bush that says, "Iraq will be cheap, quick and easy."

All you had to do was admit this statement of yours was flat false:

Gunny: "Again, nobody sold Iraq as cheap, quick or easy but you lefties"


I can't believe the amount of spin you went through to deny your statement was false: Given that top members of the Bush Admin painted rosy pictures of iraq.

One last try for honesty.

Do you admit this statement was false:

Gunny: "Again, nobody sold Iraq as cheap, quick or easy but you lefties"

 

[Gunny]

I give this a D plus, for an effort at misdirecting.

You know I wasn't talking about the WOT. We were talking about Iraq. You and Bush sold it as a relatively cheap, quick, and easy victory. One that would cost the american taxpayer virtually nothing.

Thanks Bush.

The President includes Iraq in the WOT, so there is no attempted misdirection.

Again, nobody sold Iraq as cheap, quick or easy but you lefties.

Let's review, asshat ...

You said "You and Bush sold ...."

I responded to that, in that context.

You turm around and attempt to remove the context and play dishonest semantics. Obviously, to any normal person (that would obviously not include you and any other leftwingnut), "nobody" refers to "You and Bush."

When you want to try and play your cheap little games, you shouldn't try them on your betters.

 

[DeadCanDance]

Gunny: "Again, nobody sold Iraq as cheap, quick or easy but you lefties"

Summary: Numerous conservative pundits offered highly optimistic predictions about the U.S. invasion of Iraq regarding the conflict's duration, difficulty, and human and financial costs -- nearly all of which have proven to be wrong.


Weekly Standard editor William Kristol

"The larger question with respect to Iraq, as with Afghanistan, is what happens after the combat is concluded. [...] And, as in Kabul but also as in the Kurdish and Shi'ite regions of Iraq in 1991, American and alliance forces will be welcomed in Baghdad as liberators. Indeed, reconstructing Iraq may prove to be a less difficult task than the challenge of building a viable state in Afghanistan.

There's been a certain amount of pop sociology in America ... that the Shia can't get along with the Sunni and the Shia in Iraq just want to establish some kind of Islamic fundamentalist regime. There's almost no evidence of that at all.

Weekly Standard executive editor Fred Barnes

"[T]he good news is contrary to what you hear in the media, it gets easier now. The war was the hard part. The hard part was putting together a coalition, getting 300,000 troops over there and all their equipment and winning. And it gets easier. I mean, setting up a democracy is hard, but it is not as hard as winning a war.


Etc, etc. etc. Many, many more examples


http://mediamatters.org/items/200607270007


Wolfowitz paints a rosy picture of post-invasion Iraq:

In his testimony, Mr. Wolfowitz ticked off several reasons why he believed a much smaller coalition peacekeeping force than General Shinseki envisioned would be sufficient to police and rebuild postwar Iraq. He said there was no history of ethnic strife in Iraq, as there was in Bosnia or Kosovo. He said Iraqi civilians would welcome an American-led liberation force that "stayed as long as necessary but left as soon as possible," but would oppose a long-term occupation force. And he said that nations that oppose war with Iraq would likely sign up to help rebuild it. "I would expect that even countries like France will have a strong interest in assisting Iraq in reconstruction," Mr. Wolfowitz said. He added that many Iraqi expatriates would likely return home to help.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...agoncontra.htm


Paul Wolfowitz, 2003: "The oil revenue of that country could bring between 50 and 100 billion dollars over the course of the next two or three years. We're dealing with a country that could really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon."

 

[Gunny]

Gunny: "Again, nobody sold Iraq as cheap, quick or easy but you lefties"

I give this a D plus, for an effort at misdirecting.

You know I wasn't talking about the WOT. We were talking about Iraq. You and Bush sold it as a relatively cheap, quick, and easy victory. One that would cost the american taxpayer virtually nothing.

Thanks Bush.



Quote:
The President includes Iraq in the WOT, so there is no attempted misdirection.

Again, nobody sold Iraq as cheap, quick or easy but you lefties.

Let's review, asshat ...

You said "You and Bush sold ...."

I responded to that, in that context.

You turm around and attempt to remove the context and play dishonest semantics. Obviously, to any normal person (that would obviously not include you and any other leftwingnut), "nobody" refers to "You and Bush."

When you want to try and play your cheap little games, you shouldn't try them on your betters.

// I can cut and paste as well as you, and when you put the context back into the statement, it just makes you look bad, so go for it.

 

[DeadCanDance]

//

Well, now you've invented an entirely NEW reason.

before, you complained that the quotes I gave were from politicians. And not from "intelligence" sources.


Now, your saying you were just taken out of context.

Which argument are you sticking with?

You said NOBODY but the left said iraq would be cheap and easy. NOBODY



Honesty. Try it sometime. You'll like it

 

[Larkinn]

Gunny that statement is flat out wrong. The Bush administration was saying that Iraq would be a piece of cake. A "slam dunk" if you will. The only ones against this were the far-left who were bringing up what HW Bush had said in 91, who were saying it was illegal to go in without the UN, who were saying that we didn't know if Iraq had wmd...stuff like that. The anti-war protests before we invaded weren't done by the right, they were done by the far left.

 

[Gunny]

Well, now you've invented an entirely NEW reason.

before, you complained that the quotes I gave were from politicians. And not from "intelligence" sources.


Now, your saying you were just taken out of context.

Which argument are you sticking with?

You said NOBODY but the left said iraq would be cheap and easy. NOBODY



Honesty. Try it sometime. You'll like it

Oh, I'll give you props for misdirecting the conversation as any good lying asshat can do.

Don't tell me about honesty. You wouldn't know it if it weighed 10 pounds and landed on your foot.

You've been lying from the start in yet another lame-ass attempt to make false accusations.

I'm more than happy to use both. NONE of your posted crap backs up your original accusation, AND you original accusation itself is a lie.

Kinda makes you 0-for-2.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I give this a D plus, for an effort at misdirecting.

You know I wasn't talking about the WOT. We were talking about Iraq. You and Bush sold it as a relatively cheap, quick, and easy victory. One that would cost the american taxpayer virtually nothing.

Thanks Bush.

Provide some actual evidence BUSH said what you have claimed here. I realize, like a good lefty you can play word games all night, but this statement is a flat out falsehood.

You wanna play games with Gunny? Well lets play the same game with you. Either retract this statement, provide proof or admit your a liar.

 

[Larkinn]

Provide some actual evidence BUSH said what you have claimed here. I realize, like a good lefty you can play word games all night, but this statement is a flat out falsehood.

You wanna play games with Gunny? Well lets play the same game with you. Either retract this statement, provide proof or admit your a liar.

As you well know, the people that he quoted are representatives of the Bush administration. When they say things they are speaking for him.

 

[Gunny]

Provide some actual evidence BUSH said what you have claimed here. I realize, like a good lefty you can play word games all night, but this statement is a flat out falsehood.

You wanna play games with Gunny? Well lets play the same game with you. Either retract this statement, provide proof or admit your a liar.

Hey. you know how us grunts are. If he made me mad I'd just bayonet him and carry his body around on the end of my rifle.

 

[Gunny]

As you well know, the people that he quoted are representatives of the Bush administration. When they say things they are speaking for him.

Only if they are speaking for the administration. They can speak for themselves as well.

 

[Larkinn]

Only if they are speaking for the administration. They can speak for themselves as well.

I'd say when they are making predictions about a war we are about to wage, they are talking for the administration.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

As you well know, the people that he quoted are representatives of the Bush administration. When they say things they are speaking for him.

Wrong answer. Bush has consistantly said it would take years. This is the same game you wackos play with the " Bush Lied" and " Bush Stole the election" ruse.

Either provide the quote or admit your wrong, or i will rightly assume your a Liar.

 

[DeadCanDance]

I'm really dissapointed in you gunny. You kinda seemed like a straight up no bullshit guy.

This statement you made was false:

Gunny: "Again, nobody sold Iraq as cheap, quick or easy but you lefties"


I provided you numerous examples of "righties" painting rosy scenarios about iraq.

And I gave you multiple opportunities to gracefully say your statement was false.

You gave two different excuses to attempt to explain away your statement, but the fact remains, you were wrong. Demonstrably so.


As for me? If I make a demonstrably and clearly false statement, I have no problem owning up to it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I'm really dissapointed in you gunny. You kinda seemed like a straight up no bullshit guy.

This statement you made was false:

Gunny: "Again, nobody sold Iraq as cheap, quick or easy but you lefties"


I provided you numerous examples of "righties" painting rosy scenarios about iraq.

And I gave you multiple opportunities to gracefully say your statement was false.

You gave two different excuses to attempt to explain away your statement, but the fact remains, you were wrong. Demonstrably so.


As for me? If I make a demonstrably and clearly false statement, I have no problem owning up to it.

Then you are now going to ADMIT your wrong in this thread? Either provide the Quote from Bush or admit your mistaken, or YOU are the liar and your statement applies to you.

 

[DeadCanDance]

Wrong answer. Bush has consistantly said it would take years. This is the same game you wackos play with the " Bush Lied" and " Bush Stole the election" ruse.

Either provide the quote or admit your wrong, or i will rightly assume your a Liar.

Keep guzzling that kool aid.

If you want to believe bush fully expected an insurgency, a civil war, and widespread chaos in iraq almost five years into his war, go right ahead living with those delusions.

Those of us in the reality-based community know that the Bush Administration and their minions in rightwing punditocracy soft-pedaled this war: that is was likely to be fairly pain free and cheap.

 

[DeadCanDance]

Then you are now going to ADMIT your wrong in this thread? Either provide the Quote from Bush or admit your mistaken, or YOU are the liar and your statement applies to you.

I freely admit that I don't know if bush himself ever said that iraq would be cheap and easy. That very well might be my mistake.

It's without a doubt, that members of his adminstration, and their allies in the rightwing media, sold this war as likely to be relatively painless to the american taxpayer.

See how easy it is to admit a mistake, gunny?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Keep guzzling that kool aid.

If you want to believe bush fully expected an insurgency, a civil war, and widespread chaos in iraq almost five years into his war, go right ahead living with those delusions.

Those of us in the reality-based community know that the Bush Administration and their minions in rightwing punditocracy soft-pedaled this war: that is was likely to be fairly pain free and cheap.

Another outright lie. You think now you can cover your self by say " administration" The President has BEEN CLEAR from the start. The war on Terror will take YEARS to accomplish and will result not in a clear cut easy to identify WIN, but in a safer world with less ability for mass murdering assholes to strike world wide with the backing of States and madmen. You haven't owned up to any mistake, your trying to change your statement.