What Does Santa Claus Have To Do With Christianity?

[Vox]

And the derivations of this rewrite are maybe far more interesting...

Nicholas' name comes from Hold Nikar (Old Nick), a sea god known as "king of the nixies" (sea nymphs) and associated with Woden (whence comes Wednesday, "Woden's Day", which is why we spell it like that in our Germanic-derived English). Indeed, echoes of Old Nick's seafaring past are found in the fake "St. Nicholas'" quieting a storm at sea to save three sailors.

Much of the association murkily filtered down to a conflation with Santa Claus comes from an Italian figure Pasqua Epiphania (a/k/a "The Grandmother") who would fill children's stockings with gifts. Indeed the Grandmother's shrine was at Bari, noted in the accepted "history" of the mythical saint. We could say it was colonized; out with the old god, in with the new.

The Gnostic "Nicolaites" saw Nicholas as a fertility god and "held that the only way to salvation lay through frequent intercourse between the sexes" (Knight). All of this predates the rewrite of the invented "St. Nicholas".

Sources: Zimmer, Heinrich: Myths and Symbols in Indian Art and Civilization; Miles, Clement: Christmas Customs and Traditions; Knight, Richard Payne: A Discourse on the Worship of Priapus

oh, just stop it.

St. Nicholas does not come from any fertility figures.

He was a 4th century Bishop and later a Saint who supplied dowry for three poor girls - and that how the whole business of presents started.
Half of Europe is not getting presents on Christmas, btw, but on St. Nicholas day which is December 6th by Gregorian calendar and December 19 by Julian.

Or so your theocratic overlords would have you believe

Sure, just like "St. Valentine" right?

Unfortunately history doesn't go away. Old Nick is descended from Poseidon and replaced Artemis as patron ("saint") of sailors and harlots.

My kinda guy.

this is NOT history. this is revisionist bullshit without any background and based just on desire to revise, nothing more.

but you may enjoy it - I already have seen that you like revisionist fairy tales or myths.

Has nothing to do with reality or history, but if it makes you happy - merry solstice

 

[Pogo]

oh, just stop it.

St. Nicholas does not come from any fertility figures.

He was a 4th century Bishop and later a Saint who supplied dowry for three poor girls - and that how the whole business of presents started.
Half of Europe is not getting presents on Christmas, btw, but on St. Nicholas day which is December 6th by Gregorian calendar and December 19 by Julian.

Or so your theocratic overlords would have you believe

Sure, just like "St. Valentine" right?

Unfortunately history doesn't go away. Old Nick is descended from Poseidon and replaced Artemis as patron ("saint") of sailors and harlots.

My kinda guy.

this is NOT history. this is revisionist bullshit without any background and based just on desire to revise, nothing more.

but you may enjoy it - I already have seen that you like revisionist fairy tales or myths.

Has nothing to do with reality or history, but if it makes you happy - merry solstice

Actually I already listed my sources in the first post about this. Thanks for playin'.

 

[Luissa]

You ever notice Santa looks like Karl Marx? And he wears red...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[asterism]

Plus he was a really nice Greek dude who did a lot for the poor, and for children.

He was GREEK you say?

WoW.....sounds like you're condemning Megyn Kelly for being absolutely wrong for saying that Jesus and Santa were white.

Greeks aren't white?

Do explain.

 

[Pogo]

You ever notice Santa looks like Karl Marx? And he wears red...

[/URL]

Oooh, thanks for reminding me. This needs to come out...

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17gKw_j6Qq0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17gKw_j6Qq0[/ame]


- allusions to contemporary NSA overreach

 

[koshergrl]

Have a gift, polo:

 

[Vox]

Marc, are you irritated about the chick from Fox, who proclaimed that Santa is white?

I really can't imagine what her motive or incentive was for saying that.

there is NO MOTIVE.

this is just a FACT.

Based on anthropology.

there are 3 ( some make it 4) basic RACES on Earth - White, Black and Asian.

Greeks and Jews ARE white.


p.s. does EVERYTHING in this country HAS TO be about race?
even if somebody states just FACTS?
when I e-mailed my friends overseas this nonsense they just could not believe the ignorance of the US - and only ignorance can be an explanation of the fake "outrage" upon Megyn's stating the FACTS.

 

[Vox]

Or so your theocratic overlords would have you believe

Sure, just like "St. Valentine" right?

Unfortunately history doesn't go away. Old Nick is descended from Poseidon and replaced Artemis as patron ("saint") of sailors and harlots.

My kinda guy.

this is NOT history. this is revisionist bullshit without any background and based just on desire to revise, nothing more.

but you may enjoy it - I already have seen that you like revisionist fairy tales or myths.

Has nothing to do with reality or history, but if it makes you happy - merry solstice

Actually I already listed my sources in the first post about this. Thanks for playin'.

which IS revisionist BS.

 

[koshergrl]

He has an extensive personal mythology library, by gum!

 

[koshergrl]

And he's done a lot of research so he just knows!

 

[asterism]

What a laughingstock you are.

Anyway, Nicholas really did exist, and was ultimately canonized. He isn't some sort of imaginary reincarnation of Poseidon, or Zeus, or anyone else.

He was a real person. You can go look at his grave if you like.

I have a mythology library and decades of personal research and writing, and you have ... Wikipedia.

Who da laughingstock now, beeatch?

Sorry, saying so doesn't make it so. Document that St. Nick is who you say he is and we'll talk Turkey.

Ho ho ho.

To be fair, lots of the "library" works regarding Pagan mythology and connections to Christianity aren't any better than Wikipedia.

"Old Nick?" Really? That was a good one.

 

[Pogo]

this is NOT history. this is revisionist bullshit without any background and based just on desire to revise, nothing more.

but you may enjoy it - I already have seen that you like revisionist fairy tales or myths.

Has nothing to do with reality or history, but if it makes you happy - merry solstice

Actually I already listed my sources in the first post about this. Thanks for playin'.

which IS revisionist BS.

No, it's anthropology and ancient history.

We did this recently in another thread. You couldn't think of a retort there either.
'Member?

 

[koshergrl]

Do you even know what anthropology is, nitwit?

I think you don't.

 

[Pogo]

What a laughingstock you are.

Anyway, Nicholas really did exist, and was ultimately canonized. He isn't some sort of imaginary reincarnation of Poseidon, or Zeus, or anyone else.

He was a real person. You can go look at his grave if you like.

I have a mythology library and decades of personal research and writing, and you have ... Wikipedia.

Who da laughingstock now, beeatch?

Sorry, saying so doesn't make it so. Document that St. Nick is who you say he is and we'll talk Turkey.

Ho ho ho.

To be fair, lots of the "library" works regarding Pagan mythology and connections to Christianity aren't any better than Wikipedia.

"Old Nick?" Really? That was a good one.

When I get nothing more substantial than "that's a good one" and "revisionist BS" I know I've made the point.

Difference between Wiki and a library: books get vetted, but you can go to Wiki right now and decree that the sky is green. If you want.

As I said, come up with some documentation of the mythical saint, and we'll talk Turkey. Until then it's hot air.

 

[Vox]

Actually I already listed my sources in the first post about this. Thanks for playin'.

which IS revisionist BS.

No, it's anthropology and ancient history.

We did this recently in another thread. You couldn't think of a retort there either.
'Member?

no, it is not.
it is revisionist fairy tales which sometimes sell well - and that is their sole purpose - to make profit.

the more unbelievable revision - the better the outcome. financial.

if somebody just doesn't dispute that vaccines are evil method of eradicating our immune system - that does not mean one agrees or can not refute the idiocy.
That simply means that one does not engage in conspiracy theories discussion as one considers it a waste of time.
I hope my analogy is not too naturalistic

 

[Vox]

I have a mythology library and decades of personal research and writing, and you have ... Wikipedia.

Who da laughingstock now, beeatch?

Sorry, saying so doesn't make it so. Document that St. Nick is who you say he is and we'll talk Turkey.

Ho ho ho.

To be fair, lots of the "library" works regarding Pagan mythology and connections to Christianity aren't any better than Wikipedia.

"Old Nick?" Really? That was a good one.

When I get nothing more substantial than "that's a good one" and "revisionist BS" I know I've made the point.

Difference between Wiki and a library: books get vetted, but you can go to Wiki right now and decree that the sky is green. If you want.

As I said, come up with some documentation of the mythical saint, and we'll talk Turkey. Until then it's hot air.

no, you did not make a point.

you put a tinfoil hat on yourself - that is what you have done

 

[daws101]

Uh, no.

"
Nicholas was born a Greek[12][13][14] in Asia Minor during the third century in the city of Patara (Lycia et Pamphylia),[15][16] which was a port on the Mediterranean Sea,[16] and lived in Myra, Lycia[17] (part of modern-day Demre, Turkey), at a time when the region was Greek in its heritage,[16] culture, and outlook and politically part of the Roman diocese of Asia.[16] He was the only son of wealthy Christian parents named Epiphanius (Ἐπιφάνιο&#962 and Johanna (Ἰωάνν&#945 according to some accounts[18] and Theophanes (Θεοφάνη&#962 and Nonna (Νόνν&#945 according to others.[16] He was very religious from an early age[14] and according to legend, Nicholas was said to have rigorously observed the canonical fasts of Wednesdays and Fridays. His wealthy parents died in an epidemic while Nicholas was still young and he was raised by his uncle—also named Nicholas—who was the bishop of Patara. He tonsured the young Nicholas as a reader and later ordained him a presbyter (priest).
In 325, he was one of many bishops to answer the request of Constantine and appear at the First Council of Nicaea. There, Nicolas was a staunch anti-Arian and defender of the Orthodox Christian position, and one of the bishops who signed the Nicene Creed.[19]"

Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He was a real person. Unlike Poseidon.

you have no evidence that Poseidon is not real.

 

[Pogo]

which IS revisionist BS.

No, it's anthropology and ancient history.

We did this recently in another thread. You couldn't think of a retort there either.
'Member?

no, it is not.
it is revisionist fairy tales which sometimes sell well - and that is their sole purpose - to make profit.

the more unbelievable revision - the better the outcome. financial.

Actually - that would describe the Church. To a T.

Arcane mythological studies don't reeeeeaally carry a publisher. Novels do that; self-help books do that. Antrhopological studies ... not so much. Besides, you can't just spew your own theory without peer review and expect it to take hold, as you can with a novel or a self-help.

But go ahead, show me such books on the best seller lists right now. Or show me where one of my sources got made into a movie.

Again the challenge is: prove that the "St. Nicholas" myth describes a real person. You have the word of the Church, which of course has never made anything up but any story requires corroborating evidence.

Where is it?




Exactly.

 

[Vox]

No, it's anthropology and ancient history.

We did this recently in another thread. You couldn't think of a retort there either.
'Member?

no, it is not.
it is revisionist fairy tales which sometimes sell well - and that is their sole purpose - to make profit.

the more unbelievable revision - the better the outcome. financial.

Actually - that would describe the Church. To a T.

Arcane mythological studies don't reeeeeaally carry a publisher. Novels do that; self-help books do that. Antrhopological studies ... not so much.

But go ahead, show me such books on the best seller lists right now. Or show me where one of my sources got made into a movie.

take your tinfoil hat off, than there could be a discussion.

 

[daws101]

Have a gift, polo:

that painting like most all religious artwork is not a realistic depiction of what it portrays..it's not meant to be accurate.