What does Iraq and War teach us

Discussion in 'Military' started by midcan5, Sep 6, 2010.

  1. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    "To establish any mode to abolish war, however advantageous it might be to Nations, would be to take from such Government the most lucrative of its branches." Thomas Paine



    'Obama Wants Us To Forget the Lessons of Iraq' by Andrew J. Bacevich

    "Oddly, even disturbingly, most of us—our memories short, our innocence intact—seem content with the outcome. The United States leaves Iraq having learned nothing."


    "Operation Desert Storm didn’t turn out that way. An ostensibly great victory gave way to even greater complications. Although, in evicting the Iraqi army from Kuwait, U.S. and coalition forces did what they had been sent to do, Washington became seized with the notion merely turning back aggression wasn’t enough: In Baghdad, Bush’s nemesis survived and remained defiant. So what began as a war to liberate Kuwait morphed into an obsession with deposing Saddam himself. In the form of air strikes and missile attacks, feints and demonstrations, CIA plots and crushing sanctions, America’s war against Iraq persisted throughout the 1990s, finally reaching a climax with George W. Bush’s decision after September 11, 2001, to put Saddam ahead of Osama bin Laden in the line of evildoers requiring elimination.

    Obama Wants Us To Forget The Lessons Of Iraq | The New Republic

    and noted here.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/05/opinion/05rich.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=general


    "As the Pentagon rebrands Operation Iraqi Freedom as Operation New Dawn — a “name suggesting a skin cream or dishwashing liquid,” Bacevich aptly writes — the whitewashing of our recent history is well under way. The price will be to keep repeating it."

    And images that bring out a bit of truth, no Iraqi picures, none needed after all the deaths.

    Images That Changed The World ? (PinGUY's Website)


    "We are going to punish somebody for this attack, but just who or where will be blown to smithereens for it is hard to say. Maybe Afghanistan, maybe Pakistan or Iraq, or possibly all three at once. Who knows? Not even the Generals in what remains of the Pentagon or the New York papers calling for war seem to know who did it or where to look for them." Hunter S. Thompson, September 12th, 2001
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
  2. Toome
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    Toome Active Member

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    This is an excellent topic; unfortunately, I don't see how it can stay on track without being hijacked into another emotionally-charged Bush-is-evil vs. Obama-is-weak argument.

    I'm not so sure Obama wants us to forget the lessons-learned as much as he's unable to learn the lessons. And this isn't meant as a slap against him; the problem he's facing is that he wasn't there when the decision to go to war was made. He was there as just another pretty face in Congress, but he wasn't there as one of the key decision-makers who looked at the intelligence and determined that going to war was the only viable option.

    I agree with the article that the situation we face in Iraq today traces its roots back to our decision to make Saddam an ally back in the 80's when the Iraq-Iran War kicked off. We didn't really care who won that war; we looked at it as a war of attrition that would bleed off any potential from Iraq or Iran to initiate a major regional conflict that could turn into another world war. The stalemate we helped perpetuate during the Iraq-Iran War helped us support the mujahedeen warriors fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan.

    At the time, these seemed like smart choices: stifle Soviet influence in the OPEC region with a proxy war between Iraq and Iran; and weaken the Soviets in Afghanistan through attrition. However, this only emboldened Saddam, which is most likely why he invaded Kuwait and was truly surprised by the US decision to drive him out of there, and why he was equally as surprised when it didn't end there when he started to slaughter the Kurds afterward. And it only emboldened the mujahedeen when they were allowed to infiltrate Bosnia, with US support, in the fight against the Serbs and surprised them when we sent troops into the region to kick them out of Bosnia when the Dayton Peace Accords were signed.

    The debate about oil driving US policy is a weak one. Make no mistake about it: it is all about oil. We rely on it and refuse to seek other alternatives. Look in the mirror to find out who's responsible for that demand.

    The real question is whether we can forecast these outcomes whenever we choose sides or if this is something that is inevitable. In other words, if we had successfully avoided the entanglements that would have resulted in the first Gulf War, would something else have happened that would have put us in the region anyway? Would it have been us launching into Iraq to defend Saddam against an Iranian invasion? Point is that perhaps these complicated entanglements are unavoidable one way or the other.

    And even so, isolation certainly isn't the answer. We rely on Middle Eastern oil if not directly for our own consumption, then we rely on its stability so that our production isn't forced out of business through head-to-head competition. We have to engage to some degree.

    I think the lesson learned is that we have to be honest with ourselves whenever we decide to go to war; we need to clearly articulate our goals; and we have to stick to them. Mission creep kills us.
     
  3. California Girl
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    California Girl BANNED

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    The most valuable lesson is for the rest of the world "Don't Tread On Us".
     
  4. Kalam
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    Kalam Senior Member

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    ...Or we'll attack somebody else who sort of looks like you.
     
  5. eots
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    eots no fly list

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    That with some slick propaganda Americans will willingly send there finest sons and daughters to there death to protect corporate interest ..even if it was all a lie
     
  6. onecut39
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    onecut39 VIP Member

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    Let's see. Bin Laden spent maybe a couple million bucks and sent 19 fanatics. He killed 3000 Americans.

    So far we have lost about 5000 soldiers killed, tens of thousands wounded, a trillion dollars down the chute, our military is wrecked, and there is no end in sight.

    Don't tread on us indeed! Bin Laden is laughing his ass off!
     
  7. Virginia Mom
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    Virginia Mom Active Member

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    As I see it, the only part you got correct was "finest sons and daughters".
     
  8. rdean
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    rdean rddean

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    American corporations made billions upon billions from Iraq. It was a "profit bonanza" for American corporations. Cheney's own stocks in Halliburton went up in value over 5,000%.
     
  9. rdean
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    rdean rddean

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    The US oversaw the creation of governments in Japan, Germany and Italy.

    Republicans let the Iraqis do whatever they wanted. So they put together an "Iranian" style government where their women have no rights. They live under Sharia law. Their Christians are fucked. And they hate our guts. We created a brand new enemy. Only their economy is growing and they now have the kind of army we thought they had when we went in and we paid for it.
     
  10. Samson
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    Samson Póg Mo Thóin Supporting Member

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    What does Iraq and War teach us?

    Not to bother responding to threads that begin with rhetorical questions?


    :eusa_eh:


    :oops:
     

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