What does America stand for? and what makes an American Patriot?

[John Shaw]

I've come to the European understanding that Americans are by and large fucking stupid.

Right. Welcoming their enemies to come in to destroy their culture and murder their people is really fuckin smart.

Never said the Europeans were smart. Just that Americans are dumb. Europeans are just dumb in a different way. They are better informed by a wide margin, but far too idealistic.

Should also note that I'm generalizing; Europeans surely vary significantly from one nation to the next. As do Americans in their states. I'm just fed up with the bullshit right now.

 

[9thIDdoc]

I see a lot of people, especially on the right, like Bush92 telling people they're un-American for watching football, or protesting.

So, what does America stand for? What are the principles of the USA?

Personally I thought it would have been what the Founding Fathers set down in the Bill of Rights and Constitution. Human Rights are important, treating people fairly and equally, people having the right to talk about politics, people having the right to be left alone by the US govt, but also a government which listened to its people, which represented its people, which worked to improve the country for its people.

What makes an American Patriot?

In my view the term "patriot" is as vague as some other words like "love". What does it mean? Most people don't really know. They know it means that a person loves their country, but how much does a person really love their country? How much of the country do you need to actually love in order for you to be a "patriot".

Clearly you can't love everything and everyone in your country. Many people proclaiming to patriots fly the Confederate flag, a flag of treason, other people will pound on Obama, pound on Trump, pound on the government at home, criticize it massively when their "side" isn't in power. Does this make you not be a patriot?

What is an American Patriot?
Think the exact opposite of most on the Left.

pa·tri·ot
ˈpātrēət/
noun
noun: patriot; plural noun: patriots; noun: Patriot

1. 1.
   a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.
   synonyms: nationalist, loyalist; More
   chauvinist, jingoist, flag-waver
   "would a true patriot abandon a comrade?"
   
   Definition of patriot
   ne who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests
   • … praised him as a … motivated patriot who was fearless in the quest to preserve American security.
   • —W. R. Hearst, Jr.

And what is the enemy of the country? The right say the left, the left say the right.

When those waving confederate flags claim to be patriots, when they're supporting treason, and they'll justify blindly and devotedly their view of the world, and they make their enemies in order to pound on others, then you find it's not as easy as a dictionary definition.

No, no.....don't become confused. The Left would love to redefine what it means to be a "Patriot". Sorry, it is what it is...it means what it means. Nothing gray about it.
Take the Lefty spin off the civil war and you'll quickly see "The South" felt that government was depriving them of their constitutional rights. They fought the only way they knew how in an attempt to preserve those rights. THE END

Yeah, their "right" to enslave their fellow man based upon skin color.

You're a little light on history. The majority of slaves not born slaves were in fact enslaved by black or brown men.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I see a lot of people, especially on the right, like Bush92 telling people they're un-American for watching football, or protesting.

So, what does America stand for? What are the principles of the USA?

Personally I thought it would have been what the Founding Fathers set down in the Bill of Rights and Constitution. Human Rights are important, treating people fairly and equally, people having the right to talk about politics, people having the right to be left alone by the US govt, but also a government which listened to its people, which represented its people, which worked to improve the country for its people.

What makes an American Patriot?

In my view the term "patriot" is as vague as some other words like "love". What does it mean? Most people don't really know. They know it means that a person loves their country, but how much does a person really love their country? How much of the country do you need to actually love in order for you to be a "patriot".

Clearly you can't love everything and everyone in your country. Many people proclaiming to patriots fly the Confederate flag, a flag of treason, other people will pound on Obama, pound on Trump, pound on the government at home, criticize it massively when their "side" isn't in power. Does this make you not be a patriot?

What is an American Patriot?
Think the exact opposite of most on the Left.

pa·tri·ot
ˈpātrēət/
noun
noun: patriot; plural noun: patriots; noun: Patriot

1. 1.
   a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.
   synonyms: nationalist, loyalist; More
   chauvinist, jingoist, flag-waver
   "would a true patriot abandon a comrade?"
   
   Definition of patriot
   ne who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests
   • … praised him as a … motivated patriot who was fearless in the quest to preserve American security.
   • —W. R. Hearst, Jr.

And what is the enemy of the country? The right say the left, the left say the right.

When those waving confederate flags claim to be patriots, when they're supporting treason, and they'll justify blindly and devotedly their view of the world, and they make their enemies in order to pound on others, then you find it's not as easy as a dictionary definition.

No, no.....don't become confused. The Left would love to redefine what it means to be a "Patriot". Sorry, it is what it is...it means what it means. Nothing gray about it.
Take the Lefty spin off the civil war and you'll quickly see "The South" felt that government was depriving them of their constitutional rights. They fought the only way they knew how in an attempt to preserve those rights. THE END

Yeah, their "right" to enslave their fellow man based upon skin color.

You're a little light on history. The majority of slaves not born slaves were in fact enslaved by black or brown men.

But bought by white men.

 

[9thIDdoc]

What is an American Patriot?
Think the exact opposite of most on the Left.

pa·tri·ot
ˈpātrēət/
noun
noun: patriot; plural noun: patriots; noun: Patriot

1. 1.
   a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.
   synonyms: nationalist, loyalist; More
   chauvinist, jingoist, flag-waver
   "would a true patriot abandon a comrade?"
   
   Definition of patriot
   ne who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests
   • … praised him as a … motivated patriot who was fearless in the quest to preserve American security.
   • —W. R. Hearst, Jr.

And what is the enemy of the country? The right say the left, the left say the right.

When those waving confederate flags claim to be patriots, when they're supporting treason, and they'll justify blindly and devotedly their view of the world, and they make their enemies in order to pound on others, then you find it's not as easy as a dictionary definition.

No, no.....don't become confused. The Left would love to redefine what it means to be a "Patriot". Sorry, it is what it is...it means what it means. Nothing gray about it.
Take the Lefty spin off the civil war and you'll quickly see "The South" felt that government was depriving them of their constitutional rights. They fought the only way they knew how in an attempt to preserve those rights. THE END

Yeah, their "right" to enslave their fellow man based upon skin color.

You're a little light on history. The majority of slaves not born slaves were in fact enslaved by black or brown men.

But bought by white men.

Maybe; but without black and brown men there wouldn't have been a slave trade to America.and you're fooling yourself if you think they didn't buy as well as sell or that America was the only market. White Americans changed their ways while slavery continues among blacks and browns and Asians.

 

[frigidweirdo]

And what is the enemy of the country? The right say the left, the left say the right.

When those waving confederate flags claim to be patriots, when they're supporting treason, and they'll justify blindly and devotedly their view of the world, and they make their enemies in order to pound on others, then you find it's not as easy as a dictionary definition.

No, no.....don't become confused. The Left would love to redefine what it means to be a "Patriot". Sorry, it is what it is...it means what it means. Nothing gray about it.
Take the Lefty spin off the civil war and you'll quickly see "The South" felt that government was depriving them of their constitutional rights. They fought the only way they knew how in an attempt to preserve those rights. THE END

Yeah, their "right" to enslave their fellow man based upon skin color.

You're a little light on history. The majority of slaves not born slaves were in fact enslaved by black or brown men.

But bought by white men.

Maybe; but without black and brown men there wouldn't have been a slave trade to America.and you're fooling yourself if you think they didn't buy as well as sell or that America was the only market. White Americans changed their ways while slavery continues among blacks and browns and Asians.

Well, yes, without black and brown people there wouldn't have been any black or brown slaves.

It's like saying that without human beings with feet, there'd be no market for shoes. Of course there wouldn't. If no one had the need to buy shoes, no one would make shoes. Without people buying slaves, there wouldn't be a market for people to get slaves in the first place.

 

[KissMy]

YOu don't get to assume all non voters agree wtih you. Odds are they break down along the lines of voters.

No they don't break down along the lines of voters. 10% of legitimate registered democrat voters get purged off the voter rolls just before every national election.

 

[Tehon]

Global elites = neo-liberalism = conservatism = stooges

You have been so brainwashed by neo-liberalism you can't even admit that collective consciousness exists. Thanks for helping to make my point.

So, you're using a tactic if "either agree with me or I'll cal you brainwashed"? Great.

Collective consciousness - Wikipedia

"Collective consciousness, collective conscience, or collective conscious (French: conscience collective) is the set of shared beliefs, ideas and moral attitudes which operate as a unifying force within society."

So what things do all Americans have a shared belief of, or share the same ideas or the same morals?

List them and we'll see if all Americans agree with this.

What is wrong with you? I have been consistent throughout this thread that neo-liberalism has destroyed our collective consciousness. In other words we have no shared values. There is nothing to list.

There is no such thing as a collective consciousness. People do not share a Hive Mind, except for mindless moonbats who do what their elite masters instruct them to do.

It's not about having a hive mind. We don't all think alike. Obviously.
It's about an awareness that we are all connected by something. Something that has the potential to unite us.
In your case, and many others, it has to start with recognizing that we are in fact a collective.

If you do not mean to refer to a hive mind, then I suggest you cease using the prse Collective Consciousness.

The way in which I am using it is perfectly acceptable. Especially in context of and relation to neo-liberal ideology. An ideology which is inherently divisive.

 

[Tehon]

Well, I already stated that I thought America's collective consciousness was destroyed. If that doesn't satisfy you then perhaps you ought to tell me what it is I want.

There is no such thing as a collective consciousness, you blithering fool.

I can understand the appeal of one to you, however, as you aren't able to think properly.

What are our common connections as Americans? Is it merely the dirt we walk on?

Patriotism is what did unite the US. That is why the left wing wishes to destroy the flag and patriotism.

Patriotism is purely subjective, it doesn't have the power to unite.

It's a value that, when shared, united people. It's the same thing with other values. The ones I outlined earlier are some of the traditional American values that made the U.S. a successful country. Look at the values of hellhole underdeveloped countries run by totalitarians, and try to figure out the difference.

Patriotism has no value to our collective. It is a feeling that each individual experiences individually, if at all. At best it is an indicator of the cohesiveness of the collective.

 

[frigidweirdo]

There is no such thing as a collective consciousness, you blithering fool.

I can understand the appeal of one to you, however, as you aren't able to think properly.

What are our common connections as Americans? Is it merely the dirt we walk on?

Patriotism is what did unite the US. That is why the left wing wishes to destroy the flag and patriotism.

Patriotism is purely subjective, it doesn't have the power to unite.

It's a value that, when shared, united people. It's the same thing with other values. The ones I outlined earlier are some of the traditional American values that made the U.S. a successful country. Look at the values of hellhole underdeveloped countries run by totalitarians, and try to figure out the difference.

Patriotism has no value to our collective. It is a feeling that each individual experiences individually, if at all. At best it is an indicator of the cohesiveness of the collective.

Often you find that "patriotism" is used to try and force people into a particular way of thinking. The right uses it a lot to try and suggest that war, the military etc are above reproach.

 

[Mac1958]

Obviously patriotism is in the eye of the beholder.

There are people who hate this country's history and long-standing traditions, who have disdain for its Constitution and even its national anthem, who proudly say they want to fundamentally change it, who consider themselves patriots.

Okay. I'll defend it. Freedom of expression. Stimulate conversation and communication. The problem, of course, is that few actually want to communicate right now, so who is and isn't a patriot is pretty much a moot point.
.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Obviously patriotism is in the eye of the beholder.

There are people who hate this country's history and long-standing traditions, who have disdain for its Constitution and even its national anthem, who proudly say they want to fundamentally change it, who consider themselves patriots.

Okay. I'll defend it. Freedom of expression. Stimulate conversation and communication. The problem, of course, is that few actually want to communicate right now, so who is and isn't a patriot is pretty much a moot point.
.

So, patriotism is loving the anthem? Loving the flag?

I don't see flag and anthem in any of the definitions of what a patriot is.

If you love your country, would you not want to see it IMPROVE?

 

[Mac1958]

Obviously patriotism is in the eye of the beholder.

There are people who hate this country's history and long-standing traditions, who have disdain for its Constitution and even its national anthem, who proudly say they want to fundamentally change it, who consider themselves patriots.

Okay. I'll defend it. Freedom of expression. Stimulate conversation and communication. The problem, of course, is that few actually want to communicate right now, so who is and isn't a patriot is pretty much a moot point.
.

So, patriotism is loving the anthem? Loving the flag?

I don't see flag and anthem in any of the definitions of what a patriot is.

If you love your country, would you not want to see it IMPROVE?

I just said that patriotism is in the eye of the beholder.

If you think I described patriotism, great, I'll defend your right to say it.

Sadly, I know there are many who wouldn't return that courtesy.
.

 

[xotoxi]

Take the Lefty spin off the civil war and you'll quickly see "The South" felt that government was depriving them of their constitutional rights. They fought the only way they knew how in an attempt to preserve those rights. THE END

Similarly, black NFL players feel that the government is depriving black men of their constitutional rights, so they are waging a non-violent protest in an attempt to shed light on the issue.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Obviously patriotism is in the eye of the beholder.

There are people who hate this country's history and long-standing traditions, who have disdain for its Constitution and even its national anthem, who proudly say they want to fundamentally change it, who consider themselves patriots.

Okay. I'll defend it. Freedom of expression. Stimulate conversation and communication. The problem, of course, is that few actually want to communicate right now, so who is and isn't a patriot is pretty much a moot point.
.

So, patriotism is loving the anthem? Loving the flag?

I don't see flag and anthem in any of the definitions of what a patriot is.

If you love your country, would you not want to see it IMPROVE?

I just said that patriotism is in the eye of the beholder.

If you think I described patriotism, great, I'll defend your right to say it.

Sadly, I know there are many who wouldn't return that courtesy.
.

I know what you said. I'm trying to get at your definition. Perhaps after thinking more about you'll consider different things. Perhaps you don't really want to consider different angles and push your own views on things.

What you described is what a lot of people on the right will tell you is patriotism. For me it doesn't add up.

 

[Mac1958]

Obviously patriotism is in the eye of the beholder.

There are people who hate this country's history and long-standing traditions, who have disdain for its Constitution and even its national anthem, who proudly say they want to fundamentally change it, who consider themselves patriots.

Okay. I'll defend it. Freedom of expression. Stimulate conversation and communication. The problem, of course, is that few actually want to communicate right now, so who is and isn't a patriot is pretty much a moot point.
.

So, patriotism is loving the anthem? Loving the flag?

I don't see flag and anthem in any of the definitions of what a patriot is.

If you love your country, would you not want to see it IMPROVE?

I just said that patriotism is in the eye of the beholder.

If you think I described patriotism, great, I'll defend your right to say it.

Sadly, I know there are many who wouldn't return that courtesy.
.

I know what you said. I'm trying to get at your definition. Perhaps after thinking more about you'll consider different things. Perhaps you don't really want to consider different angles and push your own views on things.

What you described is what a lot of people on the right will tell you is patriotism. For me it doesn't add up.

I'd love to know how you think my complete openness to freedom of expression, opinion and communication is "pushing my own views on things".

Two people can both believe they're patriotic and hold completely opposite views of a country. It would probably be best for the country if they talked to each other.

I don't know how else to put this.
.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Obviously patriotism is in the eye of the beholder.

There are people who hate this country's history and long-standing traditions, who have disdain for its Constitution and even its national anthem, who proudly say they want to fundamentally change it, who consider themselves patriots.

Okay. I'll defend it. Freedom of expression. Stimulate conversation and communication. The problem, of course, is that few actually want to communicate right now, so who is and isn't a patriot is pretty much a moot point.
.

So, patriotism is loving the anthem? Loving the flag?

I don't see flag and anthem in any of the definitions of what a patriot is.

If you love your country, would you not want to see it IMPROVE?

I just said that patriotism is in the eye of the beholder.

If you think I described patriotism, great, I'll defend your right to say it.

Sadly, I know there are many who wouldn't return that courtesy.
.

I know what you said. I'm trying to get at your definition. Perhaps after thinking more about you'll consider different things. Perhaps you don't really want to consider different angles and push your own views on things.

What you described is what a lot of people on the right will tell you is patriotism. For me it doesn't add up.

I'd love to know how you think my complete openness to freedom of expression, opinion and communication is "pushing my own views on things".

Two people can both believe they're patriotic and hold completely opposite views of a country. It would probably be best for the country if they talked to each other.

I don't know how else to put this.
.

Two people can have different views. Sometimes those two people will be amazingly stubborn and refuse to see things from another person's point of view. Sometimes people will be open to discussing things.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Neo-liberalism has destroyed America's collective consciousness. We have been reduced to a bunch of individuals competing with one another in the marketplace. I don't think America has any principles by which we can all unite.

Or maybe it's destroyed something you want, but you don't get everything you want.

Well, I already stated that I thought America's collective consciousness was destroyed. If that doesn't satisfy you then perhaps you ought to tell me what it is I want.

What I meant was that different people want different things. You want one thing, you want the country to go in one direction, but the US is a semi-democracy and as such other people have other views.

You say that there aren't any principles with which the people can unite. Hardly surprising with the partisan politics and the rich controlling politics.

Until the people take politics back from the rich, nothing will change. But that doesn't mean it'll go the way you want it.

The problem is, I haven’t found any views by the Founders in writing our Constitution where it was the duty of the rich to cover for the failures and short comings of others. If we believe in what they wrote about individual liberty and individual pursuits, that means we have to accept failure and the lessons that are then utilized in determining your own decisions to move forward. The left wants to take personal responsibility and hand that over to the federal government, as if someone thousands of miles away knows what my personal interests are and what I need. The founders did not write a Constitution based on the government providing for the collective whole, they did not include an amendment or “right” where it’s the duty of government to provide and support for those who refuse to provide for themselves. This idea that government MUST provide for my personal needs is simply not what the Founders wrote about and signed, so let’s not look to the rich to bail out every bad decision or lack of educational skill or pursuit the individual didn’t feel the need to work for. Our own decisions and personal choices is a direct result of our own drive to perseverance (or lack there of) in determining how successful we become. Individual liberty and the individual pursuit of happiness is not a government provision but an individual responsibility. Personal freedom and “liberty” comes with an acceptance of individual choices.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Neo-liberalism has destroyed America's collective consciousness. We have been reduced to a bunch of individuals competing with one another in the marketplace. I don't think America has any principles by which we can all unite.

Or maybe it's destroyed something you want, but you don't get everything you want.

Well, I already stated that I thought America's collective consciousness was destroyed. If that doesn't satisfy you then perhaps you ought to tell me what it is I want.

What I meant was that different people want different things. You want one thing, you want the country to go in one direction, but the US is a semi-democracy and as such other people have other views.

You say that there aren't any principles with which the people can unite. Hardly surprising with the partisan politics and the rich controlling politics.

Until the people take politics back from the rich, nothing will change. But that doesn't mean it'll go the way you want it.

The problem is, I haven’t found any views by the Founders in writing our Constitution where it was the duty of the rich to cover for the failures and short comings of others. If we believe in what they wrote about individual liberty and individual pursuits, that means we have to accept failure and the lessons that are then utilized in determining your own decisions to move forward. The left wants to take personal responsibility and hand that over to the federal government, as if someone thousands of miles away knows what my personal interests are and what I need. The founders did not write a Constitution based on the government providing for the collective whole, they did not include an amendment or “right” where it’s the duty of government to provide and support for those who refuse to provide for themselves. This idea that government MUST provide for my personal needs is simply not what the Founders wrote about and signed, so let’s not look to the rich to bail out every bad decision or lack of educational skill or pursuit the individual didn’t feel the need to work for. Our own decisions and personal choices is a direct result of our own drive to perseverance (or lack there of) in determining how successful we become. Individual liberty and the individual pursuit of happiness is not a government provision but an individual responsibility. Personal freedom and “liberty” comes with an acceptance of individual choices.

You say all this, and I don't necessarily disagree with you, but you say it based on government for the rich. The Founders didn't necessarily intend for the situation to become like this. Yes, the rich controlled politics way back when, but then the masses didn't have an education. They put in place things for the people to be able to change the Constitution to make it fit the times, this hasn't been done.

I'm not talking about government providing everything, I'm talking about THE PEOPLE being in control of their own country.

 

[PredFan]

America leads the world to civilization

Where many people think it necessary to carry sidearms for self defence on shopping trips. How much more civilised can one get?

It's not uncivilized to carry a gun.

 

[Tehon]

The founders did not write a Constitution based on the government providing for the collective whole

The constitution is a document that was intended to provide the framework for the governance of the collective whole by the collective whole.

When you start with a faulty premise you end with faulty conclusions.