What do YOU think about your party and its opponents?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Vintij, Oct 23, 2008.

  1. Vintij
    Offline

    Vintij Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,040
    Thanks Received:
    105
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Anaheim, CA
    Ratings:
    +105
    I did at one point say that the Iraq invasion was a mistake....perhaps, after learning of proof that some extremist group leaders were in Iraq before the invasion, it has made it a little better to understand why we went in. Sadam, definitely was not to be trusted and it is definitely a better world without him in power but I do think that the invasion was executed a little sloppy in terms of planning for infrastracture rebuilding after the main fighting stopped, and also the policy on government in Iraq was confusing becuase nobody knew who was in charge of what, and also......allowing a crook like Prime minister Maliki into power was a huge mistake and we are not doing anything to stop the high level corruption in Iraq.

    So, as a former democrat turned libertarian.....I do agree with many republicans on Iraq but based on the riots and protests led by Al sadr, I think the Iraqi people want us out of there and they do not want us to renew the troop agreement.What do you people think????

    Overall though, the fact that Iraqis can protest at all, tells you that in general they have more freedoms and that the surge has in some respects lowered violence in main regions of Iraq.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2008
  2. Truthmatters
    Offline

    Truthmatters BANNED

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    80,182
    Thanks Received:
    2,223
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2,233
    There was no AQ in Iraq before we went in.

    By deposing Sadam we took the shit cork out of the bottle. Yeah he was shit but he was a cork.

    How is the world BETTER that Sadam is gone?

    This is a country that has NEVER wanted to be a country. They hate each other and they will have a civil war whenever we leave.


    I hated Sadam as much as the next guy but he was the only person in history that kept the place from blowing appart.

    Ask the Iraqi people and they will tell you that life was better under Sadam than under our occupation of Iraq.

    They are soon going to make us leave because they dont wnat us there.
     
  3. Vintij
    Offline

    Vintij Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,040
    Thanks Received:
    105
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Anaheim, CA
    Ratings:
    +105
    True they do not want us there, but based on the fact that they can protest at all, does that not tell you that the government is not a dictatorship anymore. Even though Prime minister maliki is corupt and you can see that by the quick execution of Saddam out in the open without a fair amount of time to at least figure a safe and acceptable way to go about this for all partys involved, he is not a dictator and when we leave he will probably be assasinated.
     
  4. Truthmatters
    Offline

    Truthmatters BANNED

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    80,182
    Thanks Received:
    2,223
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2,233
    Iraq had no AQ ties , you forgot to address that one.

    This war was fa huge boondoggle designed to win US companies oil contracts.

    The people have been asking us to leave for years now.

    Dont you think Sadam also didnt want us there?

    This country will errupt no matter when we leave.
     
  5. Tech_Esq
    Offline

    Tech_Esq Sic Semper Tyrannis!

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2008
    Messages:
    4,408
    Thanks Received:
    558
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Ratings:
    +558
    I'll take the AQ point. By doing Iraq, we were able to draw out the enemy in large numbers. This was because we located the battle where they could easily access the battlefield. Many chose that option only to be summarily dispatched. Iraq was like a giant "no-pest" strip. Instead of engaging AQ on our soil, as they showed they had the capacity to do, we engaged them on our terms on "their" soil. You NEVER want a war to be fought on your soil because your people will suffer.

    Was there ever a doubt that AQ would come to the fight? Could it be possible that the US would come to the middle-east in large numbers and AQ not attack them in a concerted effort? NO WAY!!

    You might ask, "why not in Afghanistan then?" You would only ask that if Afghanistan was just another spot on the map that you know nothing about. It is an incredibly awful place to prosecute a war. Mountains so high your people get altitude sickness. Miserably cold in the winter. Large areas defensible by relatively few people because of the terrain. And, logistically speaking it's a mess. No roads. No direct access to the sea. Everything has to be flown in or brought in over hazardous terrain. Additionally, as the Russians and the British learned, it is a mistake to attempt to occupy Afghanistan with a large force. That's why we have deliberately kept our foot print small and out of the way. Afghans have a history of depleting forces by depriving them of logistical support. We would be another victim if we attempted it.

    One large reason there have been no attacks is because we killed so many of the ranking members and best trained of the AQ organization. You people really have to stop thinking of this in such shamefully idealistic terms and grow up and look at this fight as realists. These fuckers hate us. If you let them alone for a thousand years, they would still hate us. If you gave them billions for a thousand years, they would HATE US. There is NOTHING you can do about it except to convert to Islam. If you aren't willing to do that then you are just spewing useless drivel.
     
  6. Turboswede
    Offline

    Turboswede Very Metal

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Messages:
    487
    Thanks Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    The Emerald City (Seattle), USA
    Ratings:
    +58
    The thing is, in 15 years Iraq will be either be cut up into the surrounding states or under the control of a Military or Religious authoritarian system and all these Americans and Iraqis will have died for nothing but a vulgar display of American power projection capability.

    To bring peace and stability to Iraq would require a leader just as heartless as Sadam (or Assad, or Nasser) to bring stability first. You can’t have a democracy in a violently unstable country which is only kept from civil war by the presence of an occupation army. Didn’t the British try this in the 20’s and 30’s? If it didn’t work for them why will it work for us?

    The thing is the administration was wrong and it does not want to admit it, it’s that simple. Combine that with an unforgivably underequipped intelligence service and a pack of neo-con foreign advisors and it leads to the expensive mess we are in right now.

    As I said, in 15 years Iraq will be in the same position it was 20 years ago.
     
  7. GigiBowman
    Offline

    GigiBowman Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    947
    Thanks Received:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +157
    My party left wearing a Tin Foil Hat as he told the people who wouldn't let him into the RNC....."The housing bubble is about to burst"...and they laughed in his face. I have no idea who those imposters are that took over the Republican Party after Reagan left....


    go get him Ron! [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgnfxtrAFJQ&feature=related]YouTube - RON PAUL BLAST FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN BEN BERNANKE[/ame]
     
  8. Turboswede
    Offline

    Turboswede Very Metal

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Messages:
    487
    Thanks Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    The Emerald City (Seattle), USA
    Ratings:
    +58
    Now there is a GOP member I can respect, maybe not agree with, but respect.

    I always find myself aligned with the Dem’s because I am not really a Christian and the Christians frighten me (just like the frighten McCain). “My” party is incredibly good at throwing tax dollars at inefficient programs. I would also love to see jump down from the green high horse, listen folks. The problem isn’t car emissions in L.A., it’s that the entire developing world runs around burning coal like it is going out of style. I just see the whole “green” movement as a way for folks on the left to show off conspicuous consumption, like:

    “Zoe, look at the new Accord hybrid Nathan just bought, it gets 5 more miles to the gallon than your accord but cost $10,000 more.”

    What Zoe’s neighbor is saying is that, even though Zoe might have a similar Accord, her car was much more expensive and that’s what counts, not that it gets 15% better gas millage or must have its power pack replaced after 100,000 miles, or that it uses dangerously toxic heavy metals in its battery pack.

    Folks, if you are really green buy a Honda Fit with a manual transmission, not a Tahoe hybrid.

    Some Dem’s are just as bad as the GOP when it comes to foreign policy. Like it or not we are a nation that is dependent on global trade, because of that we took over the job of stabilizing the world from the British. Now I am not in favor of the War in Iraq but when people start talking about pulling our troops out of Europe and Japan I think they are just naive. We need a strong navy to protect world trade and we need bases all over the world to support that Navy, I don’t hate the military, I just hate how it’s being abused in Iraq.

    Oh, I feel better now…
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  9. Vintij
    Offline

    Vintij Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,040
    Thanks Received:
    105
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Anaheim, CA
    Ratings:
    +105
    Ron Paul literally built his whole campaign on the economy months before the collapse, he called it on spot and said exactly what was going to happen. Yet his fellow republicans ignored him because they said he was radical.....well look who was right the whole time and look who is the radical now by not nominating him.
     
  10. Truthmatters
    Offline

    Truthmatters BANNED

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    80,182
    Thanks Received:
    2,223
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2,233
    The Funny thing is Reagan was the begining of this type of republican party.
     

Share This Page