What do Christians and Liberals have in common?

[Foxfyre]

In truth, the rhetoric of Christianity and modern American liberalism (i.e. progressiveism)is similar as the OP suggested.

But the dynamics in how the two philoosophies play out is telling.

Christianity has never advocated slavery. Slaves were an estimated 25 to 30% of the population in the Roman Empire until Constantine made Christianity the favored religion. (Fourth Century.) And as Christianity gradually overtook the pagan cultures, perhaps some other unintended uglies were introduced, but by the middle ages slavery was phased out in most places. Yes, some people in colonial times who embraced Christianity owned slaves. but it was not endorsed by the larger Church. And in the end, it was the narrow minded conservative Christians who applied the primary pressure to end it in Mexico, Canada, and the USA.

So now we have progressiveism in America and some of those progressives are Christian fully embracing the progressive mentality which uses government to create a different kind of slave--one totally dependent on government and thereby subject to having all their liberties, choices, options, and opportunities infringed. There is no difference between an Atheist progressive and Christian progressive in that regard.

Christianity, however, in its uncorrupted and purest form, has never endorsed nor advocated government assuming the role of charity and benevolence. Such was the responsibility of the individual. Christianity in its purest form is not 'progressive' but rather advocates freedom, liberty, and unlimited possibilities.

 

[ihopehefails]

I'm Liberal and I'm a Christian. IMO, Christ was more Liberal than Conservative. We see it in the way he acted and the teachings from him. I encourage you all to go to http://liberalslikechrist.com/ '

To me, It seems like the Christian Right have corrupted the Religion as a whole. All they care about (Again, not all but most) is money and membership.

I didn't know that Jesus was into politics. Did he believe in the three branches of government? Did he believe in free enterprise vs communist utopia.

You are free to practice your own religion as you see fit but don't jam your christian ways onto others by 'legislating christian laws' into our nation. Now where did I get that phrase from????

I have no intrest in debating Religion and/or Christianity at all. I am at a time in my life where I don't even know if I believe in God. But from reading the Bible, I have gotten the Idea that Jesus was a Liberal. I would encourage you to read the link provided.

Jesus WASN'T into Politics but he did rail against the Rich and Help the Poor..Does that sound more Liberal or Conservative?

It sounds like to me that liberalism isn't a political philosophy that has to do with freedom and personal choice but what is right and what is wrong for a person to do which is why being liberal is about doing the right thing like helping the poor.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

To me, It seems like the Christian Right have corrupted the Religion as a whole. All they care about (Again, not all but most) is money and membership.

A lot of the Christian Right reminds me of the pre-Reformation Papacy. They've gotten political power and they like it.

Political Power always corrupts a religion. It corrupted the Mother Church in Europe, its corrupted Islam in the Middle East, its corrupted Judaism repeatedly in history....

That's why its best to keep religion out of politics, and vice versa. Mixing the two destroys both.

Again, comparing religious movement with political movements which only shows that liberalism is a religion since the comparison was so easily thought of by yourself.

I'm not sure you're following the comparison:

I compared the Religious Right (a religiously motivated political movement) to the pre-Reformation Papacy (A religiously motivated political body).

Your quote doesn't seem to make sense. Care to elaborate?

I don't debate that Conservatism and Liberalism have characteristics in common with religion. Both are idealistic movements that tend to struggle with practical applications.

 

[ihopehefails]

In truth, the rhetoric of Christianity and modern American liberalism (i.e. progressiveism)is similar as the OP suggested.

But the dynamics in how the two philoosophies play out is telling.

Christianity has never advocated slavery. Slaves were an estimated 25 to 30% of the population in the Roman Empire until Constantine made Christianity the favored religion. (Fourth Century.) And as Christianity gradually overtook the pagan cultures, perhaps some other unintended uglies were introduced, but by the middle ages slavery was phased out in most places. Yes, some people in colonial times who embraced Christianity owned slaves. but it was not endorsed by the larger Church. And in the end, it was the narrow minded conservative Christians who applied the primary pressure to end it in Mexico, Canada, and the USA.

So now we have progressiveism in America and some of those progressives are Christian fully embracing the progressive mentality which uses government to create a different kind of slave--one totally dependent on government and thereby subject to having all their liberties, choices, options, and opportunities infringed. There is no difference between an Atheist progressive and Christian progressive in that regard.

Christianity, however, in its uncorrupted and purest form, has never endorsed nor advocated government assuming the role of charity and benevolence. Such was the responsibility of the individual. Christianity in its purest form is not 'progressive' but rather advocates freedom, liberty, and unlimited possibilities.

Even if it did would that mean that the government should force us to conform to it when the only thing our government should be about is the free choice of everyone around. That is pretty non-religious since free choice gives you the power to not-choose any religion to live by and maximizes the 'pursuit of happiness' of every person since any person can pursue what makes them happy which includes being christian, satan worshipper, even worse, a CEO of a large corporation.

 

[uscitizen]

I would like to know what christian has ever proposed slavery laws? I know you can find a christian living 200 years ago who believed that but I can find a ton of democrats from the same period who did the same thing. Either way, those people are seperate from the people living now.

the bible that Christians are taught from says slavery is fine, just treat em decent.

Show me the verse and show me where any living christian proposed slavery?

No on the first part if you are a Christian you should know the book at least if not the chapter and verse.

On living christians promoting slavery. Whay are farm laboroers exempt from so many labor laws? You are even allowed to haul them to the fields without seatbelts in FL.
Promoting illegal immigrants to work without any labor law protections, etc.
Heck even using prison labor for farm work if they could not get enough illegals. That was in CO.

This type of thing is the closest we have to slavery in the USA now.
Except for those that willingly make themselves slaves to various political parties and such.

 

[ihopehefails]

A lot of the Christian Right reminds me of the pre-Reformation Papacy. They've gotten political power and they like it.

Political Power always corrupts a religion. It corrupted the Mother Church in Europe, its corrupted Islam in the Middle East, its corrupted Judaism repeatedly in history....

That's why its best to keep religion out of politics, and vice versa. Mixing the two destroys both.

Again, comparing religious movement with political movements which only shows that liberalism is a religion since the comparison was so easily thought of by yourself.

I'm not sure you're following the comparison:

I compared the Religious Right (a religiously motivated political movement) to the pre-Reformation Papacy (A religiously motivated political body).

Your quote doesn't seem to make sense. Care to elaborate?

I don't debate that Conservatism and Liberalism have characteristics in common with religion. Both are idealistic movements that tend to struggle with practical applications.

A religious movement has to do with the organic personality of the people as they adapt those things that they want to live by for themselves while political movements have to do with the power of the government itself so when you compare a conservative to a pre-reformation movement within religion and liberalism to protestent movement then you are saying that politics is a religion.

If you were to compare conservative with believing in monarchies and liberal with believing in democracy it would sound different but perhaps you just wanted to use them as a comparison or it might have been a fraudian slip of some kind.

 

[ihopehefails]

the bible that Christians are taught from says slavery is fine, just treat em decent.

Show me the verse and show me where any living christian proposed slavery?

No on the first part if you are a Christian you should know the book at least if not the chapter and verse.

On living christians promoting slavery. Whay are farm laboroers exempt from so many labor laws? You are even allowed to haul them to the fields without seatbelts in FL.
Promoting illegal immigrants to work without any labor law protections, etc.
Heck even using prison labor for farm work if they could not get enough illegals. That was in CO.

This type of thing is the closest we have to slavery in the USA now.
Except for those that willingly make themselves slaves to various political parties and such.

What does that have to do with religion?

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear IHHF: The SAME issues of corruption and abuse of power to cause oppression and injustice occur in the world, whether we define them in religious terms using divine laws or secular terms using civil laws. In the Bible there are two folds recognized of the same flock, the Jews and the Gentiles, who are the people under the divine laws and the natural laws. So the same truth about human nature and what is the greater good for all humanity satisfies BOTH religious and secular values on good and evil. They are just "different languages" for laws, though both can be applied as universal to all people.

To translate the religious concepts into secular terms, in order to align on common values, I often explain the spirit of "Christianity" as the spirit of "charity" so there is TRUE charity that does not seek reward and there is false charity done for show and political gain. That is true of both secular and religious outreach.

And if I had to summarize what Jesus means I would say "faith in Justice."
So if you believe in a punitive God and Jesus, you believe in "retributive Justice."
If you believe in mutual forgiveness and correction to restore equitable relations and make peace, then you believe in "restorative justice" or "justice with mercy" "social/equal justice."

So again there are two sides to the coin, you can have judgmental punitive and retributive approaches to Truth and Justice, as you do with God and Jesus, as found in the Old Testament. Or you can having loving corrective approaches to "restorative justice" which I believe is more the meaning in the New Testament, where you share equal responsibility.

These are the same values, but expressed in different ways.
And yes, there are coalitions of "Christian Left" who combine and pursue both the fulfillment of religious and political ideals, applying the Christian spiritual message to reform within the secular civil systems to try to overcome injustice with love and truth, and bring justice and peace.

One group may focus on "spiritual freedom" and liberation of souls from within.
The other focus may be on "political freedom" and liberation among social institutions.

But the truth that sets people free will satisfy BOTH levels or standards of laws, both the "divine laws" as taught by Christians, Muslims and Jews and "natural laws" as found expressed in Constitutional/democratic values, Buddhist teachings on natural harmony, wisdom and compassion, and even secular psychology on healing oneself or relations.

The end goals align in harmony, as part of the same process, but expressed and pursued in different ways in order to cover all the bases, inside and out, individual and collective.

Yours truly,
Emily

I was listening to some youtube video about politics and some girl interviewed a liberal and he said that some parties are concerned about evil corporations. Well he didn't say the word evil but the tone was there but it made me think how judgmental liberals and Christians are. Christians see the world divided between good and evil based on their own religious beliefs while liberals see the same division that is often not based on any religious dogma whatsoever. In fact it seems like it is based on their political doctrine verses and religioius doctrine.

Look at an issue like racism. Racism is immoral in christian and all other belief structures including liberal and if you think that modern liberalism doesn't resemble a religion then ask yourself why being a liberal means being non-racist, kind to the poor, care about others, or just an overall RIGHTIOUS* and HOLY person which is the same character traits we can associate with someone who belongs to a religion such as Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and etc.

A Modern liberal no longer defines himself solely by their political beliefs such as believing the three branches of government but has expanded it to their own personal moral dogma such as hating the rich or hating racism. And like all religions modern liberalism needs a centerpoint that is the source of their beliefs much like all christians need to believe God and Jesus are their centerpoint and since liberal includes politics as well as personal dogma the centerpoint becomes the state since politics revolves around the state itself.

Conservatives make God their government.
Liberals make Government their god.
-- Emily Nghiem

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm Liberal and I'm a Christian. IMO, Christ was more Liberal than Conservative. We see it in the way he acted and the teachings from him. I encourage you all to go to http://liberalslikechrist.com/ '

To me, It seems like the Christian Right have corrupted the Religion as a whole. All they care about (Again, not all but most) is money and membership.

I didn't know that Jesus was into politics. Did he believe in the three branches of government? Did he believe in free enterprise vs communist utopia.

You are free to practice your own religion as you see fit but don't jam your christian ways onto others by 'legislating christian laws' into our nation. Now where did I get that phrase from????

I have no intrest in debating Religion and/or Christianity at all. I am at a time in my life where I don't even know if I believe in God. But from reading the Bible, I have gotten the Idea that Jesus was a Liberal. I would encourage you to read the link provided.

Jesus WASN'T into Politics but he did rail against the Rich and Help the Poor..Does that sound more Liberal or Conservative?

Jesus was a classical liberal, not a modern American type liberal. He advocated common sense, rationality, personal freedom, and personal responsibility. He was absolutely not against the rich--he chose Matthew, the tax collector (one of the rich elite and therefore despised) as a disciple. He had tea with the local rich man, Zaccheus. He praised the rich man who used his riches for good. (The good Samaritan.) Lazarus, another rich man, was one of his best friends. He supported the rich man who disciplined his errant servant (parable of the talents) and also the rich man who gave the guy who worked an hour the same wages as those who worked all day (the parable of the vineyard.) His disciples acknowledged Joseph, a rich man, who donated his own tomb for the burial of Jesus.

Jesus had problems with those who cheated the poor in order to become rich, he understood that those who valued their riches more than God were in spiritual trouble, but he certainly did not despise the rich.

In today's political environment, Jesus would oppose using the government to make people needy and dependent. He would absolutely be a modern American conservative, not a modern American liberal.

 

[uscitizen]

Did Jesus ever work for a living?

the bible says he was the son of a carpenter or handyman depending on the translation.
But I recall no thing written down about Jesus doing any work.

God is a carpenter, who woulda thunk it?
A union carpenter?

 

[rikules]

Many Christians have no problem with slavery. Can you own slaves and not be racist?

I would like to know what christian has ever proposed slavery laws? I know you can find a christian living 200 years ago who believed that but I can find a ton of democrats from the same period who did the same thing. Either way, those people are seperate from the people living now.

the bible that Christians are taught from says slavery is fine, just treat em decent.

I accept that there are some passages that defend slavery and recommend "treating them decently"

however
there are also passages that defend "beating slaves ALMOST to death"

and there are passages that defend "selling your daughter into slavery"

there are even passages that defend "having UNMARRIED sex with your slaves"

so
according to god

you can sell your daughter into slavery
to a man who can beat the crap out of her
and then he can "rape" her

not sure how "decent" any of that is.

 

[Foxfyre]

I would like to know what christian has ever proposed slavery laws? I know you can find a christian living 200 years ago who believed that but I can find a ton of democrats from the same period who did the same thing. Either way, those people are seperate from the people living now.

the bible that Christians are taught from says slavery is fine, just treat em decent.

I accept that there are some passages that defend slavery and recommend "treating them decently"

however
there are also passages that defend "beating slaves ALMOST to death"

and there are passages that defend "selling your daughter into slavery"

there are even passages that defend "having UNMARRIED sex with your slaves"

so
according to god

you can sell your daughter into slavery
to a man who can beat the crap out of her
and then he can "rape" her

not sure how "decent" any of that is.

Please do not confuse the Old Testament, reflecting a particular culture and way of life, with Christianity that did not exist until AFTER the death of Jesus of Nazareth.

There is also a difference between those within a culture believing that everything in their world and experience was from God, and the new covenant of freedom, liberty, and unlimited opportunity that Jesus taught.

Those who pluck a passage here and a passage there from the Bible and hold it up as evidence of evil or good will almost always result in error of interpretation. The Bible is not a continuous narrative but a composite of a vast collection of manuscripts spanning at least 2000 years and includes symbolism, metaphor, imagery, history, poetry, prophecy, dictates of law, almost all of which are products of oral tradition. Nor is it in chronological order. The first chapter of Genesis for instance is one of the newest writings in the Old Testament.

Unless you really study the Bible for information of what the content is, and consider it as a whole work with a much larger message than what a few single verses convey, you can easily get it wrong.

Jesus knew that people's hearts would have to be changed in order for there to be a better world. Once they turned to God and let Him call the shots, they would change their world. Until then, he spoke to them and taught them within the world that existed for them. And that included slaves.

 

[uscitizen]

the bible that Christians are taught from says slavery is fine, just treat em decent.

I accept that there are some passages that defend slavery and recommend "treating them decently"

however
there are also passages that defend "beating slaves ALMOST to death"

and there are passages that defend "selling your daughter into slavery"

there are even passages that defend "having UNMARRIED sex with your slaves"

so
according to god

you can sell your daughter into slavery
to a man who can beat the crap out of her
and then he can "rape" her

not sure how "decent" any of that is.

Please do not confuse the Old Testament, reflecting a particular culture and way of life, with Christianity that did not exist until AFTER the death of Jesus of Nazareth.

There is also a difference between those within a culture believing that everything in their world and experience was from God, and the new covenant of freedom, liberty, and unlimited opportunity that Jesus taught.

Those who pluck a passage here and a passage there from the Bible and hold it up as evidence of evil or good will almost always result in error of interpretation. The Bible is not a continuous narrative but a composite of a vast collection of manuscripts spanning at least 2000 years and includes symbolism, metaphor, imagery, history, poetry, prophecy, dictates of law, almost all of which are products of oral tradition. Nor is it in chronological order. The first chapter of Genesis for instance is one of the newest writings in the Old Testament.

Unless you really study the Bible for information of what the content is, and consider it as a whole work with a much larger message than what a few single verses convey, you can easily get it wrong.

Jesus knew that people's hearts would have to be changed in order for there to be a better world. Once they turned to God and let Him call the shots, they would change their world. Until then, he spoke to them and taught them within the world that existed for them. And that included slaves.

the old teastament is in the Christian bible and is taught from by all the preachers I ever saw and listened to. Which were many as I spent the first 16 years of my life in forced church attendance. The programming did not stick though.

the old testament is also where most if not all the scriptures that current day Christians use against homosexuality are located.

 

[California Girl]

I was listening to some youtube video about politics and some girl interviewed a liberal and he said that some parties are concerned about evil corporations. Well he didn't say the word evil but the tone was there but it made me think how judgmental liberals and Christians are. Christians see the world divided between good and evil based on their own religious beliefs while liberals see the same division that is often not based on any religious dogma whatsoever. In fact it seems like it is based on their political doctrine verses and religioius doctrine.

Look at an issue like racism. Racism is immoral in christian and all other belief structures including liberal and if you think that modern liberalism doesn't resemble a religion then ask yourself why being a liberal means being non-racist, kind to the poor, care about others, or just an overall RIGHTIOUS* and HOLY person which is the same character traits we can associate with someone who belongs to a religion such as Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and etc.

A Modern liberal no longer defines himself solely by their political beliefs such as believing the three branches of government but has expanded it to their own personal moral dogma such as hating the rich or hating racism. And like all religions modern liberalism needs a centerpoint that is the source of their beliefs much like all christians need to believe God and Jesus are their centerpoint and since liberal includes politics as well as personal dogma the centerpoint becomes the state since politics revolves around the state itself.

Many Christians have no problem with slavery. Can you own slaves and not be racist?

If you were half way intelligent, you would see the racism in your own post. You automatically assume that a slave is someone of a different race to you. That is not necessarily the case.

Oh, and most Christians do actually have a problem with slavery. Dumbass.

 

[uscitizen]

Christians have no problem if the slavery is slavery to religion.

 

[rikules]

In truth, the rhetoric of Christianity and modern American liberalism (i.e. progressiveism)is similar as the OP suggested.

But the dynamics in how the two philoosophies play out is telling.

Christianity has never advocated slavery. Slaves were an estimated 25 to 30% of the population in the Roman Empire until Constantine made Christianity the favored religion. (Fourth Century.) And as Christianity gradually overtook the pagan cultures, perhaps some other unintended uglies were introduced, but by the middle ages slavery was phased out in most places. Yes, some people in colonial times who embraced Christianity owned slaves. but it was not endorsed by the larger Church. And in the end, it was the narrow minded conservative Christians who applied the primary pressure to end it in Mexico, Canada, and the USA.

So now we have progressiveism in America and some of those progressives are Christian fully embracing the progressive mentality which uses government to create a different kind of slave--one totally dependent on government and thereby subject to having all their liberties, choices, options, and opportunities infringed. There is no difference between an Atheist progressive and Christian progressive in that regard.

Christianity, however, in its uncorrupted and purest form, has never endorsed nor advocated government assuming the role of charity and benevolence. Such was the responsibility of the individual. Christianity in its purest form is not 'progressive' but rather advocates freedom, liberty, and unlimited possibilities.

Christianity has never advocated slavery."


oh?

how do you explain....;

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)



When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)


When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)



Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)




The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)



--------------

prior to the civil war ABOLITIONISTS were routinely attacked by....CHRISTIANS!

christians who believed that their bible ENDORSED and PROMOTED slavery!

during the civil war the "army of northern agression" was met in combat by the "southern conservative CHRISTIAN army to defend states rights (euphomism for slavery)"

and AFTER the civil war, for more than 100 years, southern CONSERVATIVE bible-believing CHRISTIANS tormented, abused, discriminated against and LYNCHED and MURDERED blacks on a regular basis

 

[Foxfyre]

I accept that there are some passages that defend slavery and recommend "treating them decently"

however
there are also passages that defend "beating slaves ALMOST to death"

and there are passages that defend "selling your daughter into slavery"

there are even passages that defend "having UNMARRIED sex with your slaves"

so
according to god

you can sell your daughter into slavery
to a man who can beat the crap out of her
and then he can "rape" her

not sure how "decent" any of that is.

Please do not confuse the Old Testament, reflecting a particular culture and way of life, with Christianity that did not exist until AFTER the death of Jesus of Nazareth.

There is also a difference between those within a culture believing that everything in their world and experience was from God, and the new covenant of freedom, liberty, and unlimited opportunity that Jesus taught.

Those who pluck a passage here and a passage there from the Bible and hold it up as evidence of evil or good will almost always result in error of interpretation. The Bible is not a continuous narrative but a composite of a vast collection of manuscripts spanning at least 2000 years and includes symbolism, metaphor, imagery, history, poetry, prophecy, dictates of law, almost all of which are products of oral tradition. Nor is it in chronological order. The first chapter of Genesis for instance is one of the newest writings in the Old Testament.

Unless you really study the Bible for information of what the content is, and consider it as a whole work with a much larger message than what a few single verses convey, you can easily get it wrong.

Jesus knew that people's hearts would have to be changed in order for there to be a better world. Once they turned to God and let Him call the shots, they would change their world. Until then, he spoke to them and taught them within the world that existed for them. And that included slaves.

the old teastament is in the Christian bible and is taught from by all the preachers I ever saw and listened to. Which were many as I spent the first 16 years of my life in forced church attendance. The programming did not stick though.

the old testament is also where most if not all the scriptures that current day Christians use against homosexuality are located.

Well this discussion isn't about homosexuality is it. But you would be wrong that there are more passages about that in the Old Testament than there are in the New Testament. And you almost certainly interpret those passages incorrectly too.

But you are correct that the Old Testament is included in most (not all) Christian Bibles. Jesus and the 12 apostles were all Jews after all and were all products of the culture that evolved from the Old Testament though there was roughly 400 years between the closing of the Old Testament and the time they were all born. Look at how much the world culture has changed in the last 400 years in order to get a good perspective about that.

Jesus of Nazareth was fulfilment of Old Testament prophecy. All four of the Gospels are quite clear about that. Because of so much OT references being included in the New Testament, you absolutely cannot understand the New Testament without a solid grounding in the Old. Same God. Different perceptions about who and what He is. Christianity reflects the better understanding of what Jesus taught and demonstrated about what God wants for and from His people.

Just as our own understanding of history and science and math and sociopolitical economics have evolved over the centuries, so did theirs. The New Testament is just a continuation of the story and demonstrates how a culture evolved and matured. It won't make into the 'book' of course, but the story didn't end with the closing of the New Testament either. It keeps right on going.

 

[rikules]

the bible that Christians are taught from says slavery is fine, just treat em decent.

I accept that there are some passages that defend slavery and recommend "treating them decently"

however
there are also passages that defend "beating slaves ALMOST to death"

and there are passages that defend "selling your daughter into slavery"

there are even passages that defend "having UNMARRIED sex with your slaves"

so
according to god

you can sell your daughter into slavery
to a man who can beat the crap out of her
and then he can "rape" her

not sure how "decent" any of that is.

Please do not confuse the Old Testament, reflecting a particular culture and way of life, with Christianity that did not exist until AFTER the death of Jesus of Nazareth.


QUOTE]


so
you are saying....

god is a RELATIVIST?

that morals are RELATIVE?

that god defended slavery in the OT but...he changed his mind?
had a change of heart?

though
I don't actually believe there are any passages in the NT that say "slavery is bad"

if god changed his mind about slavery...

isn't it possible that he mght change his mind about gays?
or premarital sex?

what a fickle waffling god you have

 

[rikules]

I was listening to some youtube video about politics and some girl interviewed a liberal and he said that some parties are concerned about evil corporations. Well he didn't say the word evil but the tone was there but it made me think how judgmental liberals and Christians are.

you are being awfully judgemental here

and if I may be judgmental

I question the intelligence and reasoning abilities of any person who can SEE that liberals are judgemental yet is INCAPABLE of seeing that, gosh darn it, so are conservatives!

 

[Foxfyre]

I accept that there are some passages that defend slavery and recommend "treating them decently"

however
there are also passages that defend "beating slaves ALMOST to death"

and there are passages that defend "selling your daughter into slavery"

there are even passages that defend "having UNMARRIED sex with your slaves"

so
according to god

you can sell your daughter into slavery
to a man who can beat the crap out of her
and then he can "rape" her

not sure how "decent" any of that is.

Please do not confuse the Old Testament, reflecting a particular culture and way of life, with Christianity that did not exist until AFTER the death of Jesus of Nazareth.


QUOTE]


so
you are saying....

god is a RELATIVIST?

that morals are RELATIVE?

Nope. Not saying that at all. Morals are absolute and there isn't any wiggle room to them. That's what Jesus said. And he pointed out how the people had taken God's rules and turned them into people rules. Jesus was pretty big on common sense and I learned from him that sin isn't violating manmade rules but is rather anything that harms ourselves or others, no matter what that is.

that god defended slavery in the OT but...he changed his mind?
had a change of heart?

There is no evidence that God addressed slavery in the Old Testament or New Testament. God has generally operated within the existing culture. Changing hearts and minds changes the culture. Changing the rules won't accomplish that.

though
I don't actually believe there are any passages in the NT that say "slavery is bad"

if god changed his mind about slavery...

isn't it possible that he mght change his mind about gays?
or premarital sex?

what a fickle waffling god you have.

Not at all. We do have folks who tried or try to mold God into some sort of image that THEY think he should be. And we have other folks to tried or try to mold God into some sort of image that they feel justified in despising.

God is God, however, and we mortals only fool ourselves when we presume to dictate who he is or what he should be about.

Again sin is that which harms ourselves and/or others. Once you put it into that perspective, everything else falls right into place.