what could be done to unite this country and end the partisan bs?

[Coloradomtnman]

he pissed off the left, too, in FAVOR of the right. but he doesn't get credit for that.

2 years of gridlock was better than the unrestrained abuse of power of the 6 years prior, i'd think.

at some point, difficult decisions have to be made. my own major criticism is that he tries to please the right when they won't do anything but trash him anyway, so he should focus on the left and middle.

That's the thing about Democrats. The US is a right-leaning nation, politically speaking, and the Democrats are always on the verge of losing power, so they kowtow to the GOP in the hopes of attracting right-leaning independents away from the Republican party. This results in alienating liberals (Democrats aren't liberals, they just look like it when perceived from the Right) who, during the next election, vote independent such as during the 2000 elections when liberals voted for the Green Party. Right now the Democrats have the numbers and positions to push their agenda. But for some reason, probably powerful and rich lobbies and the perceived need to recruit independent voters to the cause, they compromise.

The health care issue is the perfect example of this. This reform that they are attempting to push through sucks from a liberal point of view. It isn't universal health care at all. Its a compromised piece of shit, thrown together hodge podge in a way as to satisfy as many people as possible and not offend as many people as possible. Its like crappy corporate pop music or apple cinnamon instant oatmeal.

If the GOP had the position the Democrats do currently, do you think they'd compromise? Hell no! That's the thing about the Republican party, they don't compromise, and they don't back down, and they don't give a shit about people's feelings. They are confident in their base (until last November) and just get shit done.

The Democrats are weak. Liberals in this country as screwed.

 

[Oddball]

The democrats compromise too much with the republicans.....Oh, to laugh!!

 

[kwc57]

Outlaw punditry.

 

[tigerbob]

It has nothing to do with money... it has to do with power; and the inability of a large segment of the electorate to recognize sound principle.

This notion that 'the nation is divided' and that such is 'the problem' sets aside the reason for the division; thus fails to recognize the principles of which that division is comprised; and as such, the means to resolve the issue, within the scope of your comfort zone, is unobtainable.

The ideological left is the problem.

Embrace it; and the problem is amplified; compromise with it and the problem is sustained...

Wherever there are those who simply lack the means to reason sound principle; you will find a division between that addle-minded ilk and those who do so as a matter of course.

Imagine; a segment of the population laments the spending of a given administration; declares that the 4-5.5% unemployment and the relevant indicators represent "THE WORST ECONOMY SINCE THE GREAT DEPRESSION...

So, they eventually utilize that mantra to gain a substantial, nearly unopposable majority in the legislature... one which sways VASTLY more influence than their opposition ever enjoyed and on top of that; also gains the Federal Executive....

So what does that segment do with their power? They spend 5 times that of the administration which they previously and vociferously opposed; they run unemployment beyond DOUBLE of that which they formerly decried... and while they were HOSTILE over the cost of fuel, which spiked only after they found power; they busy themselves in the implementation of policy which will run the cost of the necessary fuels that sustain the economy to well beyond that economy crushing level which they, again, railed steadfastly against.

There's no means to reason with such people... and there's no means for reasonable people to join with such people.

Thus the resolution to the problem of division, is one which I doubt you'd be all that comfortable with; and yet, you busy yourself going about the advocating of policy which will only, quite inevitably, lead directly to that long standing, quite natural and wholly unavoidable resolution.

Crazy huh...

I was about to rep you until I got to the 3rd paragraph. Blaming the "ideological left" for everything is as absurd as blaming Bush for everything, or Clinton for everything.

In fact, the problem is blame. Everyone spends so much time citing examples of 'failed' policy from a week, a month, a decade ago that nobody tries to find a commonly acceptable solution, and heaven forbid anyone ever thinks of compromise.

This board is a perfect example. By the time any thread gets to the end of page 1 you have the idealists from one side kicking the shit out of their counterparts from the other side.

"It was Bush that fucking started this you asshole."

"Oh yeah, well how come the policy started with the Clinton administration, you partizan hack?"

"Clinton never meant for it to go this far - it's the GOP that took a sound policy to the extreme. Are you really this stupid?"

"Me stupid? I'm not the one who just voted for a President who is destroying the economy for the next 30 years!"

And so the debate goes on without a single poster focusing on current policy or its merits. Why? Because that's the way politics is done. It is far easier to kick your opponent over past policy (20/20 hindsight being a wonderful thing) than it is to rationally discuss current policy and potential future implications.

Despite everyone on message boards having Google available to make them look like they know a lot, most people really aren't that smart when it comes to discussing the impact of future policy. So they simply line up behind their party of choice, listen to what Sean or Keith tell then and parrot it because they think they agree with it, or they cite it because they think it is an example of how stupid the other side is.

Blame culture is the problem, IMO.

I think that is why the pot gets stirred with non issues. Truthfully though Bob I'm getting pretty sick of this hatred slinging against those who believe in God. That is the majority in this nation whether they believe fully or believe but do not totally understand. I can personally say a lot of people who profess to believe do not fully represent what I believe. So it all goes back to shit slinging contest and who wants to go there instead of real issues that need to be dealt with.

I don't disagree with any of that.

 

[tigerbob]

So long as there are still morons who cling to Republican and Democrat parties there will always be nothing but partisan bickering among the people and the government will remain in control of our lives.

Won't the Government remain in control either way? I suppose it depends what you mean by "control".

 

[random3434]

I was about to rep you until I got to the 3rd paragraph. Blaming the "ideological left" for everything is as absurd as blaming Bush for everything, or Clinton for everything.

In fact, the problem is blame. Everyone spends so much time citing examples of 'failed' policy from a week, a month, a decade ago that nobody tries to find a commonly acceptable solution, and heaven forbid anyone ever thinks of compromise.

This board is a perfect example. By the time any thread gets to the end of page 1 you have the idealists from one side kicking the shit out of their counterparts from the other side.

"It was Bush that fucking started this you asshole."

"Oh yeah, well how come the policy started with the Clinton administration, you partizan hack?"

"Clinton never meant for it to go this far - it's the GOP that took a sound policy to the extreme. Are you really this stupid?"

"Me stupid? I'm not the one who just voted for a President who is destroying the economy for the next 30 years!"

And so the debate goes on without a single poster focusing on current policy or its merits. Why? Because that's the way politics is done. It is far easier to kick your opponent over past policy (20/20 hindsight being a wonderful thing) than it is to rationally discuss current policy and potential future implications.

Despite everyone on message boards having Google available to make them look like they know a lot, most people really aren't that smart when it comes to discussing the impact of future policy. So they simply line up behind their party of choice, listen to what Sean or Keith tell then and parrot it because they think they agree with it, or they cite it because they think it is an example of how stupid the other side is.

Blame culture is the problem, IMO.

Truer words never spoken my friend, best post of 2009!

 

[Oddball]

does obama realize he has backed out of his promises made to a lot of "independent" voters? obama won by uniting a lot of groups....now the party will take the hit in 2010. 2 years of gridlock and we are where in 4 years...

Gimmie more of theat "gridlock" thing!!...The less those dipshits do the better off we all are.

That said, a big part of the problem is politicians who look out across America and see nothing but different groups that have to be pandered to, rather than recognizing that the role they seek is to promote an environment of as equal opportunity (NOT equality of outcomes) as possible.

 

[Lycurgus]

Bones, Obama is not a true leader, he is a talker, he is a pitch man! .........Sham Wow!

However, your question of uniting is a good one and it may very well be up to the average Joe to make it happen, I can't see either side in Washington doing it, they have never truly tried in the past and I don't hold much hope for the future.

Both major parties are to blame and both want to divide. They have to divide the flock to win their prize!

People sitting in the house and senate for 20 - 30 years? Judges who are not voted on by the people, enlisted for life? Too damn many social issues involved in the basic governing of the nation!

More than a good house cleaning is in order,

 

[noose4]

for the country to unite normal people need to speak out and show anger at politicians and pundits who twist what is said by the other side, and we must refute the ridiculous namecalling that is tossed about regarding the other side. how can i unite with people who label those with my particular political beliefs as evil, unamerican, etc, etc? as long as one side or the other is continuosly being labelled as evil, for example , as long as every single thing the president does is criticized, such as using mustard on a sandwich or checking out a girls ass is blown up to ridiculous levels there will always be a feeling of need to get revenge on the other side, and yes it was done to bush, and yes it was done to clinton before that, etc, etc.

 

[Oddball]

as long as every single thing the president does is criticized, such as using mustard on a sandwich or checking out a girls ass is blown up to ridiculous levels there will always be a feeling of need to get revenge on the other side, and yes it was done to bush, and yes it was done to clinton before that, etc, etc.

True, to a great degree.

Stupid crap like choice of mustard or choice of times and places to take vacations has got to the point of crying "wolf!", that gets the passingly intersted to tune out...But I don't think that's an accident either.

OTOH, there are people like Nixon and Clinton, who are so terribly corrupt that peeling back one layer of shady dealings leads to another...and another...and another...

 

[Lycurgus]

I have a problem trusting a person (male or female) who cannot be honest with and loyal to, the very people they claim to love the most. If they are so shallow and fake that they cannot properly respect those they love the most, then how can I expect them to properly care for the nations business?

If their commitment to those they love the most is so meaningless, then how can I expect to believe them when they make a commitment to me, a citizen?

Further they are not only disrespecting the mate they claim to love so much, but, if they have children, they are disrespecting them!

I don't care what party they belong to, what color their skin is, what religion they are or are not!

Please explain this to me.

 

[Zoom-boing]

he pissed off the left, too, in FAVOR of the right. but he doesn't get credit for that.

2 years of gridlock was better than the unrestrained abuse of power of the 6 years prior, i'd think.

at some point, difficult decisions have to be made. my own major criticism is that he tries to please the right when they won't do anything but trash him anyway, so he should focus on the left and middle.

That's the thing about Democrats. The US is a right-leaning nation, politically speaking, and the Democrats are always on the verge of losing power, so they kowtow to the GOP in the hopes of attracting right-leaning independents away from the Republican party. This results in alienating liberals (Democrats aren't liberals, they just look like it when perceived from the Right) who, during the next election, vote independent such as during the 2000 elections when liberals voted for the Green Party. Right now the Democrats have the numbers and positions to push their agenda. But for some reason, probably powerful and rich lobbies and the perceived need to recruit independent voters to the cause, they compromise.

The health care issue is the perfect example of this. This reform that they are attempting to push through sucks from a liberal point of view. It isn't universal health care at all. Its a compromised piece of shit, thrown together hodge podge in a way as to satisfy as many people as possible and not offend as many people as possible. Its like crappy corporate pop music or apple cinnamon instant oatmeal.

If the GOP had the position the Democrats do currently, do you think they'd compromise? Hell no! That's the thing about the Republican party, they don't compromise, and they don't back down, and they don't give a shit about people's feelings. They are confident in their base (until last November) and just get shit done.

The Democrats are weak. Liberals in this country as screwed.

The exact same can be said of the Dems. That's the point, CM . . . . neither side actually wants compromise, they want it 'their way'. And in the end, we the people end up getting the shaft.

 

[Xenophon]

The first step is understanding there is no difference between the two parties, neither has your best interests at heart, they simply want your vote.

 

[tigerbob]

for the country to unite normal people need to speak out and show anger at politicians and pundits who twist what is said by the other side, and we must refute the ridiculous namecalling that is tossed about regarding the other side. how can i unite with people who label those with my particular political beliefs as evil, unamerican, etc, etc? as long as one side or the other is continuosly being labelled as evil, for example , as long as every single thing the president does is criticized, such as using mustard on a sandwich or checking out a girls ass is blown up to ridiculous levels there will always be a feeling of need to get revenge on the other side, and yes it was done to bush, and yes it was done to clinton before that, etc, etc.

Quite right. All the problems America and the world is facing wouldn't seem nearly so insurmountable if people didn't behave like assholes to each other every time there is a political or religious disagreement.

- Let's for a second suspend our disbelief and imagine that the other guy is well educated and has the best interests of the country at heart, even if he has a different way of going about it than we do.
- Now, let's focus on where we agree.
- Now let's have a rational discussion of our differences to see which of them can be resolved.
- Any differences that are left after that should form the basis of our respective manifestos and then the electorate can choose between 2 parties that have broad agreement in many areas but some differences that, while setting them apart, do not set them at each other's throats.



Clearly I've been smoking the drapes this morning.

 

[tigerbob]

The first step is understanding there is no difference between the two parties, neither has your best interests at heart, they simply want your vote.

LOL! The line between cynicism and reality is razor thin!

 

[editec]

Government isn't the real problem, government is merely the tool of the problem, folks.

Nuking K street might be a good start to solving this nation's problem.

 

[Barb]

I have a problem trusting a person (male or female) who cannot be honest with and loyal to, the very people they claim to love the most. If they are so shallow and fake that they cannot properly respect those they love the most, then how can I expect them to properly care for the nations business?

If their commitment to those they love the most is so meaningless, then how can I expect to believe them when they make a commitment to me, a citizen?

Further they are not only disrespecting the mate they claim to love so much, but, if they have children, they are disrespecting them!

I don't care what party they belong to, what color their skin is, what religion they are or are not!

Please explain this to me.

Its kind of simple, you fell for a misrepresentation, or you're capitalizing on it.

 

[Liability]

Question the premise.

 

[Oddball]

Government isn't the real problem, government is merely the tool of the problem, folks.

Nuking K street might be a good start to solving this nation's problem.

Damn...Great first sentence, only screwed over by the second.

Free speech is only the tool...If politicians weren't selling what they really shouldn't be, the K Streeters wouldn't be trying to buy it.

 

[RodISHI]

- Now, let's focus on where we agree.
- Now let's have a rational discussion of our differences to see which of them can be resolved.
- Any differences that are left after that should form the basis of our respective manifestos and then the electorate can choose between 2 parties that have broad agreement in many areas but some differences that, while setting them apart, do not set them at each other's throats.



Clearly I've been smoking the drapes this morning.

All people need to be able to work towards a dream. Whether that is a job for someone else or building a job of their own.

Next?