What constitutes man and wife, Constitutionally?

Is gender biological or sociological?

  • XX and XY= Female and Male, respectively (biological)

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • Whatever sex organs they have or want is what sex they are. (sociological)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1
  • Poll closed .

JD_2B

Little Vixen
Sep 23, 2009
1,091
119
48
Nunya, Wudjathink
What constitutes a man and a wife? There are biological and sociological observations that make a man a male and a woman a female... which do you choose to be the most acceptable, if this decision was applied to the constitution?

Genetically speaking, a person with an X and a Y chromosome is a man.. and a person with 2 X chromosomes is a woman.. This is black and white..

However- In cases where a person who is born with an X and a Y chromosome is listed on the birth record as being a female, as a result of a lack of testing, or faulty judgment, and due to the aesthetics of the external genitalia, or lack thereof.. including the existence of what may appear to be female genitalia- does this mean that the person is a woman, or a man?

Sociologically, there is a gray area, because sociological views of gender are based primarily on aesthetics- some countries do not have the resources available to verify gender through even the simplest of blood tests.. And considering that some children are birthed at home through mid wives, the genetics (and genetic defects) can easily be overlooked. This is also a much more common problem than people seem to think. Every 10 months, the average Metropolitan hospital will see a birth of a child with a genetic disorder that gives even the most experienced of doctors the wrong initial evaluation of the baby's gender, based on how their genitalia look..

YET- A person can go and get surgery done and completely change their appearance and also their genitalia, and for that matter, the way their brain works, altogether- thought and emotion wise. Sociological studies have shown that females who turn into males experience a massive change in how to conduct themselves with other females- saying the things they could say before changes the reaction of other significantly, and negatively, etc.. She could have said such and such, but now that she is a he, that very statement will be considered threatening to women... But I digress..

As far as man and wife goes, how is it that someone who is genetically a male, can feasibly get surgery done, or have a defect in appearance, and be able to marry another male.. It works out well, as far as the Constitution goes- because that person is, by all sociological standards, a female- and the other one is a male. However- the "female" is really just a woman, who is biologically a male..
A male who looks and thinks like a female, thinks he is a female, or has surgery to become a female, can marry another male.. Legally.

By the books, some states would consider this a same sex marriage. Sex being gender.. Gender being based biologically on the XX and TY chromosomes..

Now, I am FOR gay marriage- by all standards.. I just am so frustrated with the recent postings about same sex marriage and what certain people's perceptions of "gender" are, that I want to see what a group in a different forum think, as well..

So which is it? Biological- XX and XY = Female and male
OR is it Sociological- What you see is what gender someone is.

Thanks for responding.. =)
 
The Constitution has NOTHING to do with marriage at all. The ONLY applicable part is the Full Faith and Credit portion in regards States. Marriage is a STATE function. Covered by State Law and State Constitutions.
 
Right.. But it is being considered a constitutional right, as far as anyone being able to marry anyone else, as long as they are two consenting adults, by the equal protections clause in the Constitution. I am not making this about the Constitution, I am asking you to read the full post and answer honestly, what your thoughts are on whether Gender should be considered based strictly on biological findings, or a visual, more sociological standpoint.
 
The equal protections clause is where the constitution comes into play in this question.. not that I ever said the US Constitution, lol- but if you want to play the state card, post your own thread asking how much the sociological standpoint of gender plays a role in the respective states who pass laws banning same sex marriage, where sex changes are concerned..

In this thread, I am asking a simple (long winded) question-

Is gender biological, meaning the XY and XX, or is it based on physical attributes only, meaning it is sociological?
 
There is no court ruling and no Congressional action that would indicate YOUR opinion on the 14th applies at all. But hey thanks for playing.
 
The equal protections clause is where the constitution comes into play in this question.. not that I ever said the US Constitution, lol- but if you want to play the state card, post your own thread asking how much the sociological standpoint of gender plays a role in the respective states who pass laws banning same sex marriage, where sex changes are concerned..

In this thread, I am asking a simple (long winded) question-

Is gender biological, meaning the XY and XX, or is it based on physical attributes only, meaning it is sociological?

The flaw, we are seeing an increase in the "flawed" genders, YY and XYY, so even that thinking is no longer valid scientifically.
 
There is no court ruling and no Congressional action that would indicate YOUR opinion on the 14th applies at all. But hey thanks for playing.

Change may scare the shit out of you, but without it you wouldn't exist at all. ;)

Change happens, however her assumption in this case is just that an assumption, devoid of fact or legal standing.
 
There is no court ruling and no Congressional action that would indicate YOUR opinion on the 14th applies at all. But hey thanks for playing.

Change may scare the shit out of you, but without it you wouldn't exist at all. ;)

Change happens, however her assumption in this case is just that an assumption, devoid of fact or legal standing.

Actually its the same basis that ended slavery, segregation in schools, and many other well documented court decisions.....

But back to the actual question-
Biological or sociological?

Visual or under a microscope?

Does a Y chromosome make a man a male?

PS- The chromosomal abnormality you are talking about, Kitten, doesnt make the male any less male, and the female any less female, as far as the medical community is concerned.. As long as there is a Y, it is a male..
 
Biological

Thank you for staying on topic and answering the question.

So- as far as the Defense of Marriage Act goes, it would not make a difference to you that the person got a sex change, surgically? The (XY male) one who altered his sex organs to become a female, would still count as male? That is your contention, right?
 
Change may scare the shit out of you, but without it you wouldn't exist at all. ;)

Change happens, however her assumption in this case is just that an assumption, devoid of fact or legal standing.

Actually its the same basis that ended slavery, segregation in schools, and many other well documented court decisions.....

But back to the actual question-
Biological or sociological?

Visual or under a microscope?

Does a Y chromosome make a man a male?

PS- The chromosomal abnormality you are talking about, Kitten, doesnt make the male any less male, and the female any less female, as far as the medical community is concerned.. As long as there is a Y, it is a male..

But it does change their gender, quite a bit. Most are raised as girls, then there's the hermaphrodites which have no genetic gender. The lines gray too much when you look at it deeply to simply say it's "male and female". Gender is not as static as people want to think, and becoming less so the greater our population becomes, actually it was predicted that as a population exceeds it's natural maximum it will have many more such abnormalities. ;)
 
Gender is not as static as people want to think, and becoming less so the greater our population becomes, actually it was predicted that as a population exceeds it's natural maximum it will have many more such abnormalities.

Surely it will have abnormalities..

I take it your answer to the question is "sociological", then?

Also, I am not making this a black and white issue.. I realize that it is not a black and white ISSUE, which is why I am begging the question about how you see gender vs the wording "same sex" or "opposite sex"..

If the issue of gender is not black and white (but clearly is biological versus sociological, as far as how we decide it) then it requires some more discussion and exploration..
 
Gender is not as static as people want to think, and becoming less so the greater our population becomes, actually it was predicted that as a population exceeds it's natural maximum it will have many more such abnormalities.

Surely it will have abnormalities..

I take it your answer to the question is "sociological", then?

Also, I am not making this a black and white issue.. I realize that it is not a black and white ISSUE, which is why I am begging the question about how you see gender vs the wording "same sex" or "opposite sex"..

If the issue of gender is not black and white (but clearly is biological versus sociological, as far as how we decide it) then it requires some more discussion and exploration..

No, my answer is "no legal marriage contract or the contract is treated like all other business contracts" ... :cool:

I don't trust anyone who believes anything is "black and white" ... ever. The world is a rainbow, life is all colors, and humans are no exception.
 
Biological

Thank you for staying on topic and answering the question.

So- as far as the Defense of Marriage Act goes, it would not make a difference to you that the person got a sex change, surgically? The (XY male) one who altered his sex organs to become a female, would still count as male? That is your contention, right?

No, he'd be a he-she whacko.
 
The equal protections clause is where the constitution comes into play in this question.. not that I ever said the US Constitution, lol- but if you want to play the state card, post your own thread asking how much the sociological standpoint of gender plays a role in the respective states who pass laws banning same sex marriage, where sex changes are concerned..

In this thread, I am asking a simple (long winded) question-

Is gender biological, meaning the XY and XX, or is it based on physical attributes only, meaning it is sociological?

The flaw, we are seeing an increase in the "flawed" genders, YY and XYY, so even that thinking is no longer valid scientifically.

YY does not exist. It is incompatible with life.

However, there is XXY and XYY.
 
Gender is not as static as people want to think, and becoming less so the greater our population becomes, actually it was predicted that as a population exceeds it's natural maximum it will have many more such abnormalities.

Surely it will have abnormalities..

I take it your answer to the question is "sociological", then?

Also, I am not making this a black and white issue.. I realize that it is not a black and white ISSUE, which is why I am begging the question about how you see gender vs the wording "same sex" or "opposite sex"..

If the issue of gender is not black and white (but clearly is biological versus sociological, as far as how we decide it) then it requires some more discussion and exploration..

No, my answer is "no legal marriage contract or the contract is treated like all other business contracts" ... :cool:

I don't trust anyone who believes anything is "black and white" ... ever. The world is a rainbow, life is all colors, and humans are no exception.

Meaning this is for even those who have different sexed reproductive organs, even if their chromosomes are the same? Is that your contention? Sex changes are okay, or not? Please specify for me.. Thanks
 

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