What constitutes genocide? Officially?

Discussion in 'History' started by tigerbob, Jul 8, 2012.

  1. tigerbob
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    tigerbob Increasingly jaded.

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    At the risk it provoking another infantile tit for tat debate about freedom of speech, I noticed this story from France

    What interested me most were a series of bullet point further down the page that read...

    Now, clearly citizens of the USA (which along with other countries like Bahrain, Malaysia, Vietnam and Yemen negotiated immunity from prosecution from genocide unless they agree to be prosecuted for it) may have a different view on this than most other countries that have ratified the Genocide Convention, but I wondered exactly what form of 'International Commission' has the right to rule on what acts are considered acts of genocide.

    I assume that in the US, the view is that nobody has the right to rule anything about the US except the US itself. But what about in general? The UN? The European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg?

    Let's take a domestic example, and ignore for a second the immunity that the USA has negotiated.

    If the Court of Human Rights ruled that the persecution of Native Americans was an act of genocide, what would be people's views of the competence of the court to so rule? Or if that's too close to home, how about the story I quoted t the beginning - let's say for example the UN ruled about the Armenian 'Genocide'?

    If a government or group are to be prosecuted for genocide, someone must first have the authority to confirm that genocide has taken place. Who has that authority?

    I realize this is a broad and complex issue, and that I may have potentially framed it incorrectly, but I'd like to hear views.

    N.B. This may be in the wrong forum, but 'History' seemed appropriate.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 8, 2012
  2. Two Thumbs
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    Two Thumbs Platinum Member

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    genocide is the killing or the attempt to kill a group that is not like you for any reason.

    the Turks, Nazia, Mongoles, chins, Japs, committed genocide.

    the russians, viet cong, commited something else, but along the same lines

    politicide?
     
  3. mememe
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    mememe BANNED

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    While there are various definitions of the term, almost all international bodies of law officially adjudicate the crime of genocide pursuant to the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG).[3] (Wiki)


    In my opinion, this definition sums it up: "Genocide is the mass murder of as many people as possible on the basis of born national, ethnic, racial or religious identity as such; with intent to eliminate the targeted group entirely and internationally; without allowing the victims any option to change views, beliefs or allegiances to save themselves; and with large-scale accomplished fulfilment of the goal. Genocide leaves in its wake an extinct or nearly extinct group within the territory under the control of the perpetrators." (Dovid Katz. 2009)

    I don't think Mongols committed genocide... (???)

    As for "politicide", -- then any and every civil war can be classed as such; "With Hunt" against Communists in USA of 50 - 60-s and Nurnberg can be classed as "politicide"... :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2012
  4. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Genocidal attempts are a rather commonly seen historical event. I can probably nhame at least five cases of it in Western history of the last 2000 years.

    And its so common in Africa, that I doubt anybody could name all the examples of that event that occurred even in just this century.

    So from my POV Debating which is or isn't attempts at genocide is sort of a waste of time.

    Why is it a waste of time?

    Because in most cases MOTIVE isn't clearly stated EXCEPT by the act itself.

    NAZI's were the exception to that rule in the 20th century.

    They openly admitted that they were seeking to kill all Jews, Romas, Slavs and so forth.


    Now here's a question though that I DO think is relevant.

    Does geneocide ALWAYS ONLY involve nationality, race, tribal or religious issues?

    What about CLASS issues?

    For instance, when STALIN decided to kill all the Kulaks, was that genocide?

    I think it was, and I think that genocidal event was based on CLASS.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2012
  5. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    We have Terror lovers claiming Israel is committing Genocide. Care to provide evidence of that based on the legal term and its definition?
     
  6. konradv
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    konradv Gold Member

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    Forgot the Murkins!
     
  7. mememe
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    mememe BANNED

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    A "class" is a concept. You can't commit genocide against a concept.

    For example, the kulaks (wealthy peasants) once dealt with were becoming either peasants of middle wealth if they chose to remain in the village, or if they chose to leave the village, they were becoming part of a proletariat/working class, or got educated and moved to be part of intellectual classes, etc.
     
  8. daveman
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    daveman Diamond Member

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    Really? How many Commies did Joe McCarthy execute?
     
  9. daveman
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    daveman Diamond Member

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    Make sure they mention the Palestinian population is rising.

    If that's genocide, it's a very poor one. But then, leftists can't make an argument without redefining words.
     
  10. Liability
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    Liability Locked Account. Supporting Member

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    Wrong. Chose not to include a group that clearly doesn't merit inclusion.
     

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