What Comes After the Retreat??????

[Doug]

Oh, so we are winning in Iraq? Damn, I must have been misled by that diabolical mainstream media! Well, that's okay then. On to Iran! And let me know what it is you guys are smoking! Bring 'em on!!!

 

[red states rule]

Are We Doing Enough to Earn Iran's Love?
As Bush has so aptly demonstrated, any idiot can make enemies. But it takes a man of courage, compassion, and a robustly French approach to diplomacy to turn enemies into friends. Senator John Kerry is such a man. On a fact-finding mission to Syria - a mystical land where facts magically leap into the laps of U.S. senators like horny Bichons Frisés - Kerry urged Bush to open a dialogue with both Syria and Iran in the hopes of winning their much needed assistance in Iraq.

Crawling to the enemy is a brilliant strategy, one that the Shrub would certainly never approve of. That’s because he doesn’t posess an inkling of the diplomacy skills that seemingly ooze out of John Kerry’s stately pores like the stench of cat piss from a Chinese opium addict. Iran and Syria are by no means perfect. Indeed, they're actively supplying the Iraqi Freedom Fighters with the weapons they’ve been using to kill and maim our troops as well as scores of innocent civilians - but that doesn’t mean we can’t be friends. For the sake of peace and goodwill, we must have the courage to put aside our petty differences and find common ground with those who openly plot our destruction.

Befriending our enemies is John Kerry’s raison d’être. In fact, some may say it's his whole reason for existence. But it's a task that he cannot shoulder alone. Each of us must look into our hearts and ask ourselves what we are doing in our homes and our workplaces to show Iran and Syria that we are deserving of their love.

Have you called for the downfall of Western Civilization and the destruction of the illegitimate Zionist regime today? Have you denied the Holocaust or blamed your problems on those rascally Jews? Have you burned a U.S. flag in protest of the Great Satan's imperialist occupation of the Muslim holy land? If you answered “Yes” to any of these questions, then you and your fellow Berkeley Professors have done much to lay the Foundation of Friendship upon which John Kerry will build his Luxury Penthouse of Appeasement.

Unfortunately, there those who would rather make enemies than friends. They would talk to Iran and Syria not with finely nuanced words of respect and understanding, but with bullets and bombs. Their primitive neocon ideals make them incapable of compromise, even as Iraq finally becomes the quagmire John Kerry had always hoped it would be. So until John Kerry is restored to the White House in 2008, we can only hope that our own personal gestures of goodwill will be enough to earn the love of those who dwell snugly in the armpit of the International Community.

http://blamebush.typepad.com/blamebush/2006/12/are_we_doing_en.html

 

[Gunny]

Oh, so we are winning in Iraq? Damn, I must have been misled by that diabolical mainstream media! Well, that's okay then. On to Iran! And let me know what it is you guys are smoking! Bring 'em on!!!

I haven't met a servicemember YET who thinks we're "losing." Just a bunch of opinionated, armchair quarterbacks who consider that a red carpet wasn't rolled out and all the people of Iraq drop to their knees in our presence as "losing."

The most bitter seem to be turncoat conservatives who expected a cakewalk and for the Iraqi "Thomas Jefferson" to come out of woodwork and "lead his people."

Anyoen who EVER thought that was blowing smoke up his/her own ass from the start. Pardon the rest of the world for waking you up from your walk through Utopia.

 

[Doug]

Of course we are not "losing" if by "losing" you mean having to raise our hands, lay down our weapons, and turn over our positions to the enemy. We can, if we want to pay the price, occupy Iraq indefinitely.

But the intention, and promise, was that we would overthrow Saddam, and then the Iraqis would build a democracy, which would change the whole political equation in the Middle East.

Didn't happen. Could it have happened with different tactics, more troops, no Abu Ghraibs, etc? I don't know, although I am inclined to doubt it.

Anyway, we won't find out. Our brilliant leaders have handed power in Iraq to the head hackers -- and our only consolation is that there are two factions of head hackers so maybe they'll wipe each other out. And at home they have handed power to the liberals. You happy with that? Or will you keep playing "shoot the messenger"?

 

[Gunny]

Of course we are not "losing" if by "losing" you mean having to raise our hands, lay down our weapons, and turn over our positions to the enemy. We can, if we want to pay the price, occupy Iraq indefinitely.

But the intention, and promise, was that we would overthrow Saddam, and then the Iraqis would build a democracy, which would change the whole political equation in the Middle East.

Didn't happen. Could it have happened with different tactics, more troops, no Abu Ghraibs, etc? I don't know, although I am inclined to doubt it.

Anyway, we won't find out. Our brilliant leaders have handed power in Iraq to the head hackers -- and our only consolation is that there are two factions of head hackers so maybe they'll wipe each other out. And at home they have handed power to the liberals. You happy with that? Or will you keep playing "shoot the messenger"?

The intention is that the Iraqi people would be free to build a democracy if they chose to do so and are willing to fight for it. If you expected an Arab Nation to embrace a political idealism they mostly have no idea about, except to be taught that it and we are bad all their lives, then you were pipe-dreaming.

What's "no Abu Ghraib's, etc" supposed to mean? You mean media blowing trivial bullshit WAY out of proportion to the incident and attempting to villify an entire administration for it for YEARS?

Abu Ghraib was a single incident. The perpetrators of the crimes were punished far in excess of anything they actually did, but punished nonetheless.

The total number of persons involved/indicted represent exactly 0.0% of the US military total strength.

And I'm not aware of any "etc," implying there were more prison hazings by guards than the incidents at Abu Ghraib. Perhaps you could elaborate.

The bottom line: the going got tough and you got going -- distancing yourself from having ever supported it. Now you're spouting liberal rhetoric as your reasoning.

You've almost gone completely over to the Dark Side, dude.

 

[Doug]

No, the intention was not simply to set up a situation in Iraq where we would see what the Iraqis would do when they were released from the constraints of Saddam Hussein. If that had been our intention, we would be out of there by now with everyone congratulating us on a job well done.

The clear belief was that the Iraqis would set up a democracy that we would be happy with -- a civilized one, not one where 'democratically elected' fundamentalist terrorists who hate us hold power, as in Iran. What would be the point of anything else?

I was dubious about this from the start, but didn't want to encourage all the pacifists, anti-Americans, lefties, and custard-heads who were screaming against it. Anyway I didn't, and don't, know a hell of a lot about the Third World in general and Iraq in particular. So I hoped I was wrong and that our leaders knew what they were doing. After the January elections last year, I thought we might just make it. Wrong. I should have listened to William Buckley, initially a supporter of the war, who knew early on that we had been defeated in Iraq.

Our magnificent military have done all that courage and skill can do. But even the USMC cannot turn ignorant fanatical tribalists into liberty-loving democrats.

I would love to be proved wrong, but it's not going to happen. So let's get our heads out of the sand and figure out what to do now. Of course the Left will crow about it, and will inevitably be strengthened by our defeat. They already have been.

All we can do now is to try to limit our losses, and work out a better strategy -- it would be hard to come up with a worse one -- to fight Islamic terrorism. We can be sure that the liberals will be incoherent, at best. If we can show that we have learned from our mistakes, then we can present a credible alternative to the Cindy Sheehans and Michael Moores whose influence in the Democratic Party will be great.

Most Americans know, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of Iraq, that we must be militarily strong, and not afraid to use our strength. So in the long run we hold the upper hand in the debate on foreign policy. In the short run, we are going to take some hits -- and some of them are blue-on-blue, but this is life.

 

[midea]

I just dont get it. Why are we all giving in to the popular belief that it's all over except for the fat lady singing? Can't Americans understand that we have an opportunity to change the shape of the world. To make a better world. Not only for America but also for the world in general. In fact, with the proliferation of nukes, humanity itself is at stake if the negativity of terrorism is allowed to survive. Besides, the world needs to know America is not to be messed with.
OK. The war in Iraq is not going as well as people would like. But the simple fact is that if the vision of President Bush is realized and Iraq becomes a democracy and an ally it will cause a domino effect in the middle east. Bringing a stability to the most volitile place on earth. It is an historic and noble endever. And it is now or never. If we dont do it now we will be playing defence for at least forty years. When one considers the long term ramifications of failure in the middle east, it seems an easy choice to decide to do what ever it takes to win.
The first important factor in achieving success is not to be impatient.

midea

 

[Annie]

I just dont get it. Why are we all giving in to the popular belief that it's all over except for the fat lady singing? Can't Americans understand that we have an opportunity to change the shape of the world. To make a better world. Not only for America but also for the world in general. In fact, with the proliferation of nukes, humanity itself is at stake if the negativity of terrorism is allowed to survive. Besides, the world needs to know America is not to be messed with.
OK. The war in Iraq is not going as well as people would like. But the simple fact is that if the vision of President Bush is realized and Iraq becomes a democracy and an ally it will cause a domino effect in the middle east. Bringing a stability to the most volitile place on earth. It is an historic and noble endever. And it is now or never. If we dont do it now we will be playing defence for at least forty years. When one considers the long term ramifications of failure in the middle east, it seems an easy choice to decide to do what ever it takes to win.
The first important factor in achieving success is not to be impatient.

midea

Welcome Midea, impressive first post!

 

[Doug]

Midea: you are absolutely right. IF we can create a stable, prosperous democracy in Iraq, it will indeed have a domino effect, throughout the Middle East, and the entire world. It would be a death-blow to jihadis everywhere.

It's that little word "if". IF I won the lottery, it would change my life completely, and for the better. Therefore .... therefore what? Should I spend all my weekly pay on lottery tickets?

We have to ask ourselves if it is within human compass to create a stable multi-ethnic democracy in Iraq. It may be Mission Impossible, literally. If so, and it is looking that way more and more every day, then we had better have a Plan B, and admit defeat with respect to the initial goal.

Now there can be, and are, many Plan Bs.

One is: leave Iraq as quickly as possible. Bring the troops home, and don't think about military interventions ever again. Bury our head in the pre-9/11 sand and hope they leave us alone. Divert as much as possible of the military budget to day care and Lesbian Outreach centers. Encourage the returning troops to join the Club of Victims.

That is, caricatured only slightly, the Lefty Plan B.

I want to see a hard-nutted conservative Plan B. Split the place into three regions, one for each ethnic group, and let the strongest have Baghdad. Or Nuke the whole lot. Or side with the Shi'ites and wipe out the Sunnis. But Plan A is not working.

And if we do have to get out, then take care of our friends ... don't abandon them like we did in Vietnam. I personally doubt we will see any Plan B except to just leave with as much dignity as possible under the circumstances. In any case, we had better get ready for bad times ahead.

 

[trobinett]

Posted by midea:

It is an historic and noble endeavor.

I agree midea, but there are those, that are so self absorbed, and try so hard to be PC, that the great endeavor you talk about escapes them.

Great post.....