What Are Your Religious Beliefs?

[Iceweasel]

All the writings are made up by men. There were many books and a committee selected the ones to include in defining their religion, as requested by the emperor.

Your studies are nothing more than circular reasoning, it's true because it's written an it's written because it's true. That's not rational and dismissing any and all objections doesn't make your case.

Sure, because math and science books (as well as the Bible) were written by men. By definition, all studies are circular reasoning. (Think of simple math and the order of operations.) Where we break out of the circle, whether it be in math, science, or theology is when we close the book and begin applying and testing it in real life situations.

I understand some feel that the Bible failed them when they applied it to their real life situations. For many other, it opened doors. The advanced mathematics door did not open for me. Yet, I've never felt compelled to go on Internet forums and insist, that because the math door did not open for me, it can't open for anyone. So the theology door doesn't open for some. Why the need, when it doesn't open, to try to nail it shut, block it off, and stand in the way of others? Let people explore. Let all doors be open. People can tell me about math and science; I can tell about theology and grammar.

Utter bullshit. Science is not circular reasoning. You are either lying or completely off your rocker.

But please, go ahead and prove the supernatural elements of the bible. And explain why no one else recorded these miracles at the time. The Jews couldn't be bothered with mentioning the temple drapes toen in two? Daylight turned to night? The earthquake. All the risen dead people? All at the time the Jesus character was said to ascend to heaven. It's a rather odd omission.

And how so much of Philo and Greek thought get's incorporated into the enlightened Jewish scriptures.

And the door did open for me, like I said your arrogant dismissals are meaningless. I bought the whole nine yards for two decades but the more I learned, the more I used my head, the more faith it required. Until it ran out. That's actually how science works, you start with what's there instead of trying to fit facts into a belief system.

 

[Meriweather]

But please, go ahead and prove the supernatural elements of the bible. And explain why no one else recorded these miracles at the time. The Jews couldn't be bothered with mentioning the temple drapes toen in two? Daylight turned to night? The earthquake. All the risen dead people? All at the time the Jesus character was said to ascend to heaven. It's a rather odd omission.

And how so much of Philo and Greek thought get's incorporated into the enlightened Jewish scriptures.

And the door did open for me, like I said your arrogant dismissals are meaningless. I bought the whole nine yards for two decades but the more I learned, the more I used my head, the more faith it required. Until it ran out. That's actually how science works, you start with what's there instead of trying to fit facts into a belief system.

So you lost interest. Why do you feel everyone else should lose interest as well?

The Jews did mention odd things happening at the Temple around forty years before it was destroyed, which of course also dates back to the time of Christ. Also interesting, in the early years of the first century, there was a prophecy circulating that the Temple Veil would be torn in two (symbolizing God's leaving). Catholic thought mentions the custom of that time of ripping clothes upon death; but the emphasis is on God's mercy to all. Instead of remaining hidden in the Holy of Holies, His mercy emerges for all. An eclipse or other natural phenomenon can account for daylight turning to night. How many accounts of poor people seeing ghosts make it into history books?

I understand I have a talent for making everyone on all sides mad at me , so let's put this all together. About thirty-five to forty years after Jesus died, the Gospels began taking their written form. From genealogy research and my own grandparents manner of speaking, "About the time of..." can mean anything from the same day to ten years before or ten years after. While I do not discount the possibility that Gospel accounts are precise to the minute (they very well could be), neither do I discount the likelihood that the authors took events well-known at the time and tied them more closely to Jesus and his death. It was known that curtains/doors were inexplicably opening at that time. Candles that shouldn't have gone out were going out. Light was appearing when doors were opened. Curtains (probably outer ones) were torn. Mysteriously? Who knows.

Whether or not all this happened on the day Jesus died, Gospel writers were dealing and using facts known at the time. They found signs and meanings in them. Remember, not so very long ago, people lived their lives, alert for signs. Signs were their early warning system, taken over by our scientifically run weather and emergency alert systems of today.

I believe there is a great likelihood that early Christians took the events swirling around Jesus, his life and death, and offered explanations: The breach in the Temple was not God leaving, but God coming forth, now within reach of everyone. The ghosts were those leaving Abraham's bosom to dwell not with the man, Abraham, but eternally within the kingdom of God. I would be greatly surprised if others in that time period offered different explanations as well.

Iceweasel, perhaps I understand your position much better than you understand mine. You think I don't understand the reasons you gave it all a pass. You can't understand how I've studied all that you have, agree that people were heavy into signs and interpreting signs--point out instances of this--yet don't dismiss it all as ancient superstitions. It's because I start with facts, learning about the culture and their ways of thinking, and the knowledge of those times. Yes, I know--I'm arrogant. (Sorry, but that still gives me a kick.)

 

[Iceweasel]

But please, go ahead and prove the supernatural elements of the bible. And explain why no one else recorded these miracles at the time. The Jews couldn't be bothered with mentioning the temple drapes toen in two? Daylight turned to night? The earthquake. All the risen dead people? All at the time the Jesus character was said to ascend to heaven. It's a rather odd omission.

And how so much of Philo and Greek thought get's incorporated into the enlightened Jewish scriptures.

And the door did open for me, like I said your arrogant dismissals are meaningless. I bought the whole nine yards for two decades but the more I learned, the more I used my head, the more faith it required. Until it ran out. That's actually how science works, you start with what's there instead of trying to fit facts into a belief system.

So you lost interest. Why do you feel everyone else should lose interest as well?

The Jews did mention odd things happening at the Temple around forty years before it was destroyed, which of course also dates back to the time of Christ. Also interesting, in the early years of the first century, there was a prophecy circulating that the Temple Veil would be torn in two (symbolizing God's leaving). Catholic thought mentions the custom of that time of ripping clothes upon death; but the emphasis is on God's mercy to all. Instead of remaining hidden in the Holy of Holies, His mercy emerges for all. An eclipse or other natural phenomenon can account for daylight turning to night. How many accounts of poor people seeing ghosts make it into history books?

I understand I have a talent for making everyone on all sides mad at me , so let's put this all together. About thirty-five to forty years after Jesus died, the Gospels began taking their written form. From genealogy research and my own grandparents manner of speaking, "About the time of..." can mean anything from the same day to ten years before or ten years after. While I do not discount the possibility that Gospel accounts are precise to the minute (they very well could be), neither do I discount the likelihood that the authors took events well-known at the time and tied them more closely to Jesus and his death. It was known that curtains/doors were inexplicably opening at that time. Candles that shouldn't have gone out were going out. Light was appearing when doors were opened. Curtains (probably outer ones) were torn. Mysteriously? Who knows.

Whether or not all this happened on the day Jesus died, Gospel writers were dealing and using facts known at the time. They found signs and meanings in them. Remember, not so very long ago, people lived their lives, alert for signs. Signs were their early warning system, taken over by our scientifically run weather and emergency alert systems of today.

I believe there is a great likelihood that early Christians took the events swirling around Jesus, his life and death, and offered explanations: The breach in the Temple was not God leaving, but God coming forth, now within reach of everyone. The ghosts were those leaving Abraham's bosom to dwell not with the man, Abraham, but eternally within the kingdom of God. I would be greatly surprised if others in that time period offered different explanations as well.

Iceweasel, perhaps I understand your position much better than you understand mine. You think I don't understand the reasons you gave it all a pass. You can't understand how I've studied all that you have, agree that people were heavy into signs and interpreting signs--point out instances of this--yet don't dismiss it all as ancient superstitions. It's because I start with facts, learning about the culture and their ways of thinking, and the knowledge of those times. Yes, I know--I'm arrogant. (Sorry, but that still gives me a kick.)

I like to see everyone become more rational human beings but I'm not on a mission. I responded to what you said. If it bothers you, don't read it. Like I said, you have a propensity to arrogantly dismiss whatever you don't like and I do believe your religion is a huge part of the problem.

You are dismissing my point about the temple, the drapes rendered in half isn't some casual event, it would have been recorded, especially by Josephus. And all the other events of the evening. They never happened.

I dismiss that which is outlandish, contradicts reality, has no support and demands total suspension of rational thought. Signs and interpretations replaces science in your mind? Anyone can conjure up anything.

Gospel writers, and we don't even know who they were or what exactly they said, putting it to paper 30-60 years after the supposed events Isn't how the most important message to man would play out. And some guy that never met Jesus had to explain it all to them.

 

[Meriweather]

I like to see everyone become more rational human beings but I'm not on a mission. I responded to what you said. If it bothers you, don't read it. Like I said, you have a propensity to arrogantly dismiss whatever you don't like and I do believe your religion is a huge part of the problem.

You are dismissing my point about the temple, the drapes rendered in half isn't some casual event, it would have been recorded, especially by Josephus. And all the other events of the evening. They never happened.

I dismiss that which is outlandish, contradicts reality, has no support and demands total suspension of rational thought. Signs and interpretations replaces science in your mind? Anyone can conjure up anything.

Gospel writers, and we don't even know who they were or what exactly they said, putting it to paper 30-60 years after the supposed events Isn't how the most important message to man would play out. And some guy that never met Jesus had to explain it all to them.

Hey, I'm not the one bothered. You did not get the gist of my post, but that's my fault. It was too long. I would suggest you read it again, but...it's too lengthy. To sum up: I gave a synopsis of Jewish accounts of the time of rather strange events happening at the Temple, which could have people thinking the veil was torn in two. Clearly the Jews did not associate these odd happenings with Jesus, or the inner veil itself being torn. Christians did. They presented Christian explanations for what was happening. Jews dismissed the early Christian perspective; Christians dismissed the Jewish perspective.

The common theme between the two perspectives is that there were signs God was leaving the Temple. Jews dismissed the Christian claim that God left the inner Temple to go out to all the world. I understand Jews prophecy held that God would leave due to their disobedience and would return when this changed and the time is right.

Bare bones: Odd things were happening in the Temple at or (more probable) around the time Jesus died. Two different faiths offered two different explanations for what was happening. (The atheists of the time probably had their own ideas. )

 

[hobelim]

I thinks its not so much about circular reasoning as it is about failing to comprehend metaphors as difficult to decipher as a talking serpent, the word becoming flesh, raising the dead, giving sight to the blind, etc., and then, when corrected, lacking the moral and ethical substance to acknowledge error and adjust accordingly because he has a vested interest in perpetuating lies and keeping all those that he has misled over the years in the dark.


Here lies the test; The light has come into the world but men preferred darkness to light because their deeds were evil. Bad men all hate the light and avoid it for fear their practices should be shown up...... John 3:19

That was borrowed heavily from Philo of Alexandria, who was instrumental in Hellinizing Jewish concepts.

Interesting.


When one considers the time of Egyptian slavery, Persian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Macedonian, and Roman conquests of the holy land one can understand why to Jesus , his disciples, and the authors of the gospels, 'the nations" were the enemy.

The story most certainly isn't about Jesus submitting to Roman torture and crucifixion because he loved them so much.

I'm not even buying the Egyptian slavery story. There is no evidence for it. With that many involved and the exodus lasting 40 years there would have been some archeological evidence.

I don't try to make any sense out of it these days. It's all a crock. Jesus spoke in Aramaic, yet couldn't bother to write anything down and whose disciples apparently didn't understand him until Paul came along many years later, and the story finally gets committed to paper later yet in Greek?

Does. Not. Compute.

lol... Of course it does not compute. And I understand not even wanting to try to make sense of it. I basically chalked it all off as an ancient crock of shit when I was still in grade school. I was born without the ability to set aside my own rational mind and 'just believe ' anything.

Then I tried another approach.

I began to see those contradictions as a giant X on a treasure map of sorts that indicates where something of great value is buried and hidden.

"The kingdom of heaven is like hidden treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it buried it again." matthew 13:44


Can you dig it?



Why not take another harder look. The book was never about historical accuracy.

If you don't look you will never find it.

I don't get your point. Sure there are good life lessons in the stories. People were probably more philosophical in the past than now with all the mindless distractions. Nothing supernatural about it though.

I agree, nothing supernatural about the stories of the eyes of the blind being opened, the dead coming out of their graves, bodily ascending into heaven, the veil of the Temple being torn, etc., but all of these stories are about something that is much more than good life lessons.

And you are right. one of the favorite pastimes of ancient peoples was trying to figure out riddles.


Knowing that why wouldn't you want to find out the truths that they found important enough hide in in stories that amount to riddles?

That was my point. There is much more there than what meets the eye. If you don't look you will never find it.


For instance, the veil of the Temple being torn is not about torn fabric but it is about something. The Temple itself was the veil that was torn. In the same way the term sanctuary of God is not about a building built by men where God lives but it is about something that people today would think of more as divine providence.

The teaching, stories, and subjects discussed in scripture are not necessarily directly connected to the literal meaning of the words used.

Lets face it. A large part of the world has been befuddled by these stories for millennia. And our collective history reads like the long list of maledictions promised by Moses for failing to abide by the teachings that are preserved in the figurative language of the divine commands.

You may not believe in the supernatural but you must have noticed some strange force at work that keeps people like our dear friend Meriweather on his knees every Sunday seeking spiritual life from a lifeless cracker even though it is impossible for him to not know how ridiculous and degrading such a belief and practice is..


Meriweather would probably call it faith.

I call it evidence of divine condemnation, the power of God at work, live and in living color.

























.

 

[hobelim]

Jesus replied to the devil, " Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God."

Manna from heaven, the food of angels, is a metaphor for teaching from God.

Jesus himself established that bread is figurative for teaching in Matthew 16:11, 12..

"Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees."

"He who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

Its not a caution about eating bread unworthily, its about failing to comprehend that bread = flesh = teaching.

Why is it a caution?


What is the consequence for perjuring yourself in the name of God?

What is the consequence for misleading others?

What is the consequence for desecrating the body of Christ?

take your time.............

Here we are again. With some, everything is metaphor! (Reminds me of a line from the Lion King. )

As explained, metaphor does not work for me. Faith does. One thing we might try in our effort to find common ground is that Catholicism teaches Communion as a sacrament. A sacrament is defined as, "The visible signs of the invisible reality." I'm thinking that this may help you, a metaphor thinker, understand the other way of thinking. "Metaphor" and "Invisible Reality" may be fairly close in definition.

In Baptism, water is the visible sign of the invisible cleansing of our soul. Anointing with oil is the visible sign of this soul being dedicated to God, a member of the Body of Christ. If you can see all this as metaphor, then I'm thinking it's not that great of leap to see the visible signs of the invisible reality.

In the same way, the bread and wine are the visible signs of the invisible reality, that Christ offers himself to us, body, blood, soul, and divinity. It is God, nourishing us with Himself. In Catholic worship, we begin with the Liturgy of the Word. This leads into the Liturgy of the Eucharist (communion). As you point out, the Word is nourishing in itself. In Catholic thought, the Word is not the only gift we were given, but also a gift of infinite magnitude. Can you understand why some choose reality over metaphor?

Sorry Alexander. Looks like you've spent too much time on Pleasure Island and those donkey ears are there to stay.

 

[Iceweasel]

I like to see everyone become more rational human beings but I'm not on a mission. I responded to what you said. If it bothers you, don't read it. Like I said, you have a propensity to arrogantly dismiss whatever you don't like and I do believe your religion is a huge part of the problem.

You are dismissing my point about the temple, the drapes rendered in half isn't some casual event, it would have been recorded, especially by Josephus. And all the other events of the evening. They never happened.

I dismiss that which is outlandish, contradicts reality, has no support and demands total suspension of rational thought. Signs and interpretations replaces science in your mind? Anyone can conjure up anything.

Gospel writers, and we don't even know who they were or what exactly they said, putting it to paper 30-60 years after the supposed events Isn't how the most important message to man would play out. And some guy that never met Jesus had to explain it all to them.

Hey, I'm not the one bothered. You did not get the gist of my post, but that's my fault. It was too long. I would suggest you read it again, but...it's too lengthy. To sum up: I gave a synopsis of Jewish accounts of the time of rather strange events happening at the Temple, which could have people thinking the veil was torn in two. Clearly the Jews did not associate these odd happenings with Jesus, or the inner veil itself being torn. Christians did. They presented Christian explanations for what was happening. Jews dismissed the early Christian perspective; Christians dismissed the Jewish perspective.

The common theme between the two perspectives is that there were signs God was leaving the Temple. Jews dismissed the Christian claim that God left the inner Temple to go out to all the world. I understand Jews prophecy held that God would leave due to their disobedience and would return when this changed and the time is right.

Bare bones: Odd things were happening in the Temple at or (more probable) around the time Jesus died. Two different faiths offered two different explanations for what was happening. (The atheists of the time probably had their own ideas. )

I understood your words better than you did. I am not bothered. You're a liar. That's what smug superior religious types do. You look down your snouts at EVERYONE that refuses to blindly accept your bronze age garbage and prove how worthless it really is. Rational people don't need it.

Yes, we all know Jews and Christians had different beliefs. Odd things happening doesn't explain why none of the outlandish Christian claims never made it into anything but their book of fables.

No sale!

 

[Iceweasel]

You may not believe in the supernatural but you must have noticed some strange force at work that keeps people like our dear friend Meriweather on his knees every Sunday seeking spiritual life from a lifeless cracker even though it is impossible for him to not know how ridiculous and degrading such a belief and practice is..


Meriweather would probably call it faith.

I call it evidence of divine condemnation, the power of God at work, live and in living color.

I believe in a supernatural realm but I don't know why people love to mischaracterize others when they aren't marching in lockstep with them. That's a sign of weakness.

As far as signs, that's what witch doctors do too. Anyone can read anything into a sign. I have no reason to find meaning in ancient anonymous stories, why should I?

What keeps Meriweather on his knees is his unwillingness to accept reality the way it is. He, like millions of others believe what they want to instead. Part of it is cultural and social and part of it is the need to have an answer for unanswerable questions. I don't know isn't good enough.

 

[Meriweather]

I believe in a supernatural realm but I don't know why people love to mischaracterize others when they aren't marching in lockstep with them. That's a sign of weakness.

As far as signs, that's what witch doctors do too. Anyone can read anything into a sign. I have no reason to find meaning in ancient anonymous stories, why should I?

What keeps Meriweather on his knees is his unwillingness to accept reality the way it is. He, like millions of others believe what they want to instead. Part of it is cultural and social and part of it is the need to have an answer for unanswerable questions. I don't know isn't good enough.

The irony here is that you are mischaracterizing me--and you appear to love doing so...simply because I am not marching in lockstep with you.

 

[Iceweasel]

I believe in a supernatural realm but I don't know why people love to mischaracterize others when they aren't marching in lockstep with them. That's a sign of weakness.

As far as signs, that's what witch doctors do too. Anyone can read anything into a sign. I have no reason to find meaning in ancient anonymous stories, why should I?

What keeps Meriweather on his knees is his unwillingness to accept reality the way it is. He, like millions of others believe what they want to instead. Part of it is cultural and social and part of it is the need to have an answer for unanswerable questions. I don't know isn't good enough.

The irony here is that you are mischaracterizing me--and you appear to love doing so...simply because I am not marching in lockstep with you.

Wrong. I'm responded to your words only. You've lied about me in response.

 

[Meriweather]

I understood your words better than you did. I am not bothered. You're a liar. That's what smug superior religious types do. You look down your snouts at EVERYONE that refuses to blindly accept your bronze age garbage and prove how worthless it really is. Rational people don't need it.

Yes, we all know Jews and Christians had different beliefs. Odd things happening doesn't explain why none of the outlandish Christian claims never made it into anything but their book of fables.

No sale!

1. I am not trying to sell anything. I thought an interesting discussion might develop between two people who studied the same subject and arrived at varying conclusions. I have not been trying to change your mind--it would not cross my mind to do so. What's wrong with a simple, pleasant change of ideas?

2. By your own posts it was all too obvious that the intent of my posts was not absorbed. I was astounded by your reaction. You are not hearing what I am saying. Or, are you determined to disagree with me no matter what I do say?

3. You are stereotyping me, picturing me as a certain type of person so you can feel comfortable lash out and be abusive towards me. I'm not used to that. First of all, growing up, there were atheists in my family. Others were of several different denominations. I married an atheist. So the acceptance of varying beliefs--or no beliefs--has been ingrained in me from childhood. I've always had a great interest in religion and theology. I enjoy discussing it.

4. I've already pointed out twice, that yes, Christian claims in fact did make it into under other books. What I find interesting is that these accounts in outside books describe the incident somewhat differently and/or that while all these events did occur around the time of Christ's death, they do not all seem to have occurred simultaneously. The Gospel accounts give the impression they occurred one right after the other. When we read the other accounts, they appear to have happened over the course of months, years.

5. I am not selling anything, so there can't even be a sale. I have never tried to "sell" anything to the non-believers or those of different belief within my own family. We are all comfortable in our own skins, and perhaps better discussions occur for the very reason we are all different and unique.

6. So are you up for discussion or not?

 

[Meriweather]

Wrong. I'm responded to your words only. You've lied about me in response.

No, you haven't responded to my words only. You have also responded to me personally, and your remarks about me have been abrasive--even insulting--by any measure. Since I cannot recall having said anything about anything other than the topic, it would help if you could show me what I said that you took as a lie about you.

 

[hobelim]

I believe in a supernatural realm but I don't know why people love to mischaracterize others when they aren't marching in lockstep with them. That's a sign of weakness.

Could you explain your belief in a supernatural realm?

As far as signs, that's what witch doctors do too. Anyone can read anything into a sign. I have no reason to find meaning in ancient anonymous stories, why should I?

Why should you?

When every other con man, false messiah, political candidate, or lunatic is using those stories to promote themselves and disarm others, only to fleece anyone who falls under their spell while they are in a daze lighting candles, you should care at least enough to find out who is an actor and lying fraud or not.

You may be immune to their lies but don't you care about the people who are not immune and have minds screwed up and their lives ruined by these unscrupulous bastards slithering around our national backyard reproducing unchecked while hiding in the shadows of ignorance like a plague of poisonous serpents?

Don't you think that also affects you?

Aren't you subject to laws and customs that were imposed on everyone by so called believers who have usurped positions of authority but are in a state of cognitive dissonance and completely detached from reality as a result of adopting perverse beliefs about right and wrong and good and evil inspired by their misunderstanding of those very same ancient anonymous stories?

If the truth ever came to light there would never be another Jonestown massacre, Spanish inquisition, anti LGBT rally, drug war, Pope, High priest, false messiah, or holocaust. There certainly wouldn't be more people in prison in this country than any other nation on earth.


Only then, when the truth comes to light, will this scripture be fulfilled...

"And there shall no longer be any curse" revelation 22:3

Good enough reason for me.

 

[Iceweasel]

I believe in a supernatural realm but I don't know why people love to mischaracterize others when they aren't marching in lockstep with them. That's a sign of weakness.

Could you explain your belief a supernatural realm?

As far as signs, that's what witch doctors do too. Anyone can read anything into a sign. I have no reason to find meaning in ancient anonymous stories, why should I?

Why should you?

When every other con man, false messiah, political candidate, or lunatic is using those stories to promote themselves and disarm others, only to fleece anyone who falls under their spell while they are in a daze lighting candles, you should care at least enough to find out whether they are actors and lying frauds or not.

You may be immune to their poison but don't you care about the people who are not immune and have minds screwed up and their lives ruined by these bastards?

Don't you think that also affects you?

Aren't you subject to laws and customs that were imposed on everyone by so called believers who are in a state of cognitive dissonance and completely detached from reality as a result of adopting perverse beliefs about right and wrong and good and evil inspired by their misunderstanding of those very same ancient anonymous stories?

If the truth ever came to light there would never be another Jonestown massacre, Spanish inquisition, anti LGBT rally, drug war, Pope, High priest, or holocaust.

Good enough reason for me.

I'm convinced there is more to life than what we can see but don't have a set of doctrines or beliefs to uphold.

My point clearly was the whole thing is made up by men, churches and fokelore and I have no reason to try to make sense of it all. Nor am I on a mission to deprogram anybody. People believe what they want to. I know when I was religious no one could talk me out of it BUT I did investigate some of what they were saying and eventually was able to use my own mind.

 

[hobelim]

I believe in a supernatural realm but I don't know why people love to mischaracterize others when they aren't marching in lockstep with them. That's a sign of weakness.

Could you explain your belief a supernatural realm?

As far as signs, that's what witch doctors do too. Anyone can read anything into a sign. I have no reason to find meaning in ancient anonymous stories, why should I?

Why should you?

When every other con man, false messiah, political candidate, or lunatic is using those stories to promote themselves and disarm others, only to fleece anyone who falls under their spell while they are in a daze lighting candles, you should care at least enough to find out whether they are actors and lying frauds or not.

You may be immune to their poison but don't you care about the people who are not immune and have minds screwed up and their lives ruined by these bastards?

Don't you think that also affects you?

Aren't you subject to laws and customs that were imposed on everyone by so called believers who are in a state of cognitive dissonance and completely detached from reality as a result of adopting perverse beliefs about right and wrong and good and evil inspired by their misunderstanding of those very same ancient anonymous stories?

If the truth ever came to light there would never be another Jonestown massacre, Spanish inquisition, anti LGBT rally, drug war, Pope, High priest, or holocaust.

Good enough reason for me.

I'm convinced there is more to life than what we can see but don't have a set of doctrines or beliefs to uphold.

My point clearly was the whole thing is made up by men, churches and fokelore and I have no reason to try to make sense of it all. Nor am I on a mission to deprogram anybody. People believe what they want to. I know when I was religious no one could talk me out of it BUT I did investigate some of what they were saying and eventually was able to use my own mind.

How can you say that the whole thing is made up when you already know that there is more to life than what can be seen?

What proof have you found that convinced you that there is more to life than what can be seen?

 

[Dhara]

Precisely.

They were called cannibals because the Roman authorities failed to comprehend that the command of Jesus to 'eat my flesh' has literally nothing whatever to do with eating anything just like the many disciples who left Jesus after he said, unless you eat my flesh you can have no life in you, because they too took it literally and failed to comprehend the hidden meaning of the metaphorical analogy that he later explained to the remaining disciples in John 6:63. that his words, teaching from God about the figurative nature of the words and hidden subjects of divine law, are what you must eat.

No matter how many eucharists there are in the world and however many devoted believers eat it daily they are not obeying the command of Jesus to eat his flesh.

You have been diverted by superstitious archaic lore and placed under a delusion to believe a lie.

Actually, I have not.

I understand you cannot/will not believe because your understanding is from the Roman point of view.

I choose to remain with scripture, Apostolic teaching, and early Christian belief. To compare this with cannibalism simply illustrates how far removed one is from Apostolic teaching and scripture. Some people buy into the Roman thought of cannibalism. But to the rest of us, that is like someone saying, "Sun" and asking two people to describe what first comes into their minds. One person say thirst and death; the other says light and warmth.

In the same way, Jesus says, "This is my body," and some people say, "Cannibalism" and others say, "Nourishment--in a similar way to how a mother nourishes her baby, where cannibalism isn't even a factor."

Hmmm. There is a Buddhist practice that involves offering the body, and it's purpose is to lessen attachment to the body and increase generosity. The body is that which most living beings cling to the most.

 

[Likkmee]

I believe the Aramaic writings to be true and accurate. I believe King James was a scumbag(as are ALL Kings).
I believe Catholics are illiterate morons.
"Jews" didn't like what Yeshua had to say so they asked for another. Aint gonna be one.Most are fake Jews( Bolsheviks) anyway."Shake the dust off your feet---worse than Sodom or Gomorrah"
Muslimes are as delusional as Tom Cruisentistology and the Morons(the extra M made them feel smart).
The Amish and Quakers are pretty spot on.Probably living far more" Christian" than most of us who claim to be. All of us really.