CDZ What are the tenets of fascism?

[Freiheit]

You may as well flush the term fascism down the commode. No one wants it because the term has been tainted by Hitler.

True, but that's not really a point in dispute.

But no matter how you define the term, which you must had nave not yet, everyone will run from it.....unless they are some Hitler loving types.

Definition of words is not left up to the individual. Word definitions are codified in dictionarys. Otherwise communication would be impossible. Words have meaning and the meanings must be respected.

There doesn't seem to be a universal definition for fascism. I attempted to define in my op.

 

[Freiheit]

You may as well flush the term fascism down the commode. No one wants it because the term has been tainted by Hitler.

True, but that's not really a point in dispute.

But no matter how you define the term, which you must had nave not yet, everyone will run from it.....unless they are some Hitler loving types.

Definition of words is not left up to the individual. Word definitions are codified in dictionarys. Otherwise communication would be impossible. Words have meaning and the meanings must be respected.

There doesn't seem to be a universal definition for fascism. I attempted to define in my op.

The left have been distancing themselves from both the National Socialist German Workers Party and the Italian Facisti since 1945 and have obscured and obsfucated what each espoused in that distancing.

 

[K9Buck]

Yes, Hitler's version of fascism is ideologically different than Mussolini's.

 

[Freiheit]

Yes, Hitler's version of fascism is ideologically different than Mussolini's.

If you stop and think Facism is wrongly applied to Germany 1933-45.

 

[K9Buck]

Yes, Hitler's version of fascism is ideologically different than Mussolini's.

If you stop and think Facism is wrongly applied to Germany 1933-45.

Perhaps Hitler gravitated toward calling it fascism because of its seemingly popular perception, sort of like how the modern left seem so enamored with "Democratic Socialism". In other words, it was a political ploy, just like saying that he was a Christian, when he clearly was not.

 

[Freiheit]

Yes, Hitler's version of fascism is ideologically different than Mussolini's.

If you stop and think Facism is wrongly applied to Germany 1933-45.

Perhaps Hitler gravitated toward calling it fascism because of its seemingly popular perception, sort of like how the modern left seem so enamored with "Democratic Socialism". In other words, it was a political ploy, just like saying that he was a Christian, when he clearly was not.

I have never seen a credible source that claimed Mr. Hitler ever called National Socialism fascism. If you have a source please share it.

 

[K9Buck]

Yes, Hitler's version of fascism is ideologically different than Mussolini's.

If you stop and think Facism is wrongly applied to Germany 1933-45.

Perhaps Hitler gravitated toward calling it fascism because of its seemingly popular perception, sort of like how the modern left seem so enamored with "Democratic Socialism". In other words, it was a political ploy, just like saying that he was a Christian, when he clearly was not.

I have never seen a credible source that claimed Mr. Hitler ever called National Socialism fascism. If you have a source please share it.

Lol, now that you mention it, neither have I. Ha ha!

 

[2aguy]

Some will claim that nationalism is a tenet of fascism. I believe that is mistaken. After all, if nationalism is a tenet of fascism, then I suppose it could be argued that Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Gandhi, all fervent nationalists, were fascists.

Fascism was the evolution of Nationalism, to have Nationalists regulate society for National interests, instead of what we have where Capitalists regulate society for Capitalist interest, which means selling Porn, selling Drugs, selling Abortions, selling Gangster Rap music, hiring 10's of millions of illegal immigrants, and outsourcing 10's of millions of jobs out of the country.

Fascism is simply socialism...... like ice cream flavors, chocolate, strawberry and vanilla, they are all still ice cream....fascism, nazism and communism are simply flavors of socialism....

I think this is a great definition of fascism....

Fascism: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty

As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie.
Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism.
Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners.

Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.)
Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically.

In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace.Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions.

 

[2aguy]

I believe that the tenets of fascism are government control of a nation's industry, education, healthcare and virtually every other segment of society, as well as the lack of a free-market, capitalist economy.

That's it.

Some will claim that nationalism is a tenet of fascism. I believe that is mistaken. After all, if nationalism is a tenet of fascism, then I suppose it could be argued that Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Gandhi, all fervent nationalists, were fascists.

Some will claim that racism is a tenet of fascism. Again, I believe that is mistaken. While the Nazis were definitely racist, to my knowledge, Benito Mussolini was not. While it wouldn't surprise me IF Mussolini held prejudicial views on other races, that alone doesn't render one a fascist, otherwise we would have to assume that someone like LBJ was also a fascist. As well, Mussolini refused to turn over Italy's Jews to the Nazis.

What I described in my opening paragraph is what defines fascism, that and that alone.

Note: This is the "clean debate forum". Please respond appropriately. Thank you.

Here is what Wiki says about fascism.

• 
  
  
  • 
    
    Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical authoritarian ultranationalism,[1][2][3][4] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy,[5] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.[6] The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I before it spread to other European countries.[6] Opposed to liberalism, Marxism and anarchism, fascism is placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.
    
    FYI, I never agreed with the commonly accepted political spectrum with communism on the Left and Fascism on the right. To me, they are both collectivist centralized governments that are more alike than not. In fact, it was very easy to convert communist sympathizers into Nazi sympathizers and vice versa. Both had full control over private industry and society at large even though the Nazi Party did not own industry in name. I think that the real political spectrum would be all collectivist/fascist governments on the Left and decentralized governments on the right.
    
    I would say that racism is purely a political construct though of fascists. About the only time racism is discussed is either when you sit down with a doctor to discuss heredity issues or when discussing political rights, or the lack thereof, for people of different races. Now when it comes to discussing race at length, this comes mostly from the Left. The Left is fixated on race and race baits at every turn. You might even say that they are fixated on race as much as your typical Nazi back in the day, only, the Left is at war with the white race as where Hitler was at war with other races.

Naturally, when you bring this up the Left brings up the neo-Nazi protestors that they say Trump failed to condemn adequately, even though he did do so. Additionally, if you ever sit down and talk to these neo-Nazi types, you will find that they are not conservatives at all, but socialists like Hitler. Again, they have as much in common with the Left EXCEPT hating whites instead of blacks. They both hate Jews, only, the Left is fixated on attacking Zionism as their Jewish hate fix.

About the only reason neo-Nazi types support Trump is that he said he wanted to build a wall. They want to keep out darker skinned people as where the typical Trump supporter just wants to have safe immigration without letting groups like MS 13 in the country.

The interview Dinesh D'souza did with White Nationalist richard spencer shows this...he is not anything close to an American Conservative and shares more, philosophically with the democrats....

 

[2aguy]

Some will claim that nationalism is a tenet of fascism.

Like Mussolini, the founder?

Mussolini was a communist who was kicked out of the party, so he started his own flavor or socialism...

 

[night_son]

I believe that the tenets of fascism are government control of a nation's industry, education, healthcare and virtually every other segment of society, as well as the lack of a free-market, capitalist economy.

That's it.

Some will claim that nationalism is a tenet of fascism. I believe that is mistaken. After all, if nationalism is a tenet of fascism, then I suppose it could be argued that Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Gandhi, all fervent nationalists, were fascists.

Some will claim that racism is a tenet of fascism. Again, I believe that is mistaken. While the Nazis were definitely racist, to my knowledge, Benito Mussolini was not. While it wouldn't surprise me IF Mussolini held prejudicial views on other races, that alone doesn't render one a fascist, otherwise we would have to assume that someone like LBJ was also a fascist. As well, Mussolini refused to turn over Italy's Jews to the Nazis.

What I described in my opening paragraph is what defines fascism, that and that alone.

Note: This is the "clean debate forum". Please respond appropriately. Thank you.

Put simply, Fascism is an organized socio-political-economic system wherein a highly centralized seat of individual or party council based political power speaks governing decrees devised to decide the fates of his, her or their fellow, subordinate countrymen, which a merciless secret police, national police and specialized military force enforce according to a very, very mandatory ideology and or religion.

Even simpler?

Fascism is any system of government which prioritizes and enforces by the blade the limitation or removal of personal, individual rights.

 

[night_son]

Educate yourself.

http://www.historyguide.org/europe/duce.html

It's too darn early for Italian.

 

[night_son]

I believe that the tenets of fascism are government control of a nation's industry, education, healthcare and virtually every other segment of society, as well as the lack of a free-market, capitalist economy.

That's it.

Some will claim that nationalism is a tenet of fascism. I believe that is mistaken. After all, if nationalism is a tenet of fascism, then I suppose it could be argued that Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Gandhi, all fervent nationalists, were fascists.

Some will claim that racism is a tenet of fascism. Again, I believe that is mistaken. While the Nazis were definitely racist, to my knowledge, Benito Mussolini was not. While it wouldn't surprise me IF Mussolini held prejudicial views on other races, that alone doesn't render one a fascist, otherwise we would have to assume that someone like LBJ was also a fascist. As well, Mussolini refused to turn over Italy's Jews to the Nazis.

What I described in my opening paragraph is what defines fascism, that and that alone.

Note: This is the "clean debate forum". Please respond appropriately. Thank you.

Put simply, Fascism is an organized socio-political-economic system wherein a highly centralized seat of individual or party council based political power speaks governing decrees devised to decide the fates of his, her or their fellow, subordinate countrymen, which a merciless secret police, national police and specialized military force enforce according to a very, very mandatory ideology and or religion.

Even simpler?

Fascism is any system of government which prioritizes and enforces by the blade the limitation or removal of personal, individual rights.

Simpler yet?

If your citizen-subjects are trying to run like hell away from your rule, regime, whatever to another a country, you might be a fascist.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Some will claim that nationalism is a tenet of fascism. I believe that is mistaken. After all, if nationalism is a tenet of fascism, then I suppose it could be argued that Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Gandhi, all fervent nationalists, were fascists.

Fascism was the evolution of Nationalism, to have Nationalists regulate society for National interests, instead of what we have where Capitalists regulate society for Capitalist interest, which means selling Porn, selling Drugs, selling Abortions, selling Gangster Rap music, hiring 10's of millions of illegal immigrants, and outsourcing 10's of millions of jobs out of the country.

Fascism is simply socialism...... like ice cream flavors, chocolate, strawberry and vanilla, they are all still ice cream....fascism, nazism and communism are simply flavors of socialism....

I think this is a great definition of fascism....

Fascism: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty

As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie.
Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism.
Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners.

Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.)
Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically.

In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace.Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions.

Even Stalin was to the Right of modern Republicans, and modern Democrats.

Stalin abolished abortion, criminalized Homosexuality, and had supported the deportations of groups for a more homogenous society.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

I believe that the tenets of fascism are government control of a nation's industry, education, healthcare and virtually every other segment of society, as well as the lack of a free-market, capitalist economy.

That's it.

Some will claim that nationalism is a tenet of fascism. I believe that is mistaken. After all, if nationalism is a tenet of fascism, then I suppose it could be argued that Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Gandhi, all fervent nationalists, were fascists.

Some will claim that racism is a tenet of fascism. Again, I believe that is mistaken. While the Nazis were definitely racist, to my knowledge, Benito Mussolini was not. While it wouldn't surprise me IF Mussolini held prejudicial views on other races, that alone doesn't render one a fascist, otherwise we would have to assume that someone like LBJ was also a fascist. As well, Mussolini refused to turn over Italy's Jews to the Nazis.

What I described in my opening paragraph is what defines fascism, that and that alone.

Note: This is the "clean debate forum". Please respond appropriately. Thank you.

Here is what Wiki says about fascism.

• 
  
  
  • 
    
    Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical authoritarian ultranationalism,[1][2][3][4] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy,[5] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.[6] The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I before it spread to other European countries.[6] Opposed to liberalism, Marxism and anarchism, fascism is placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.
    
    FYI, I never agreed with the commonly accepted political spectrum with communism on the Left and Fascism on the right. To me, they are both collectivist centralized governments that are more alike than not. In fact, it was very easy to convert communist sympathizers into Nazi sympathizers and vice versa. Both had full control over private industry and society at large even though the Nazi Party did not own industry in name. I think that the real political spectrum would be all collectivist/fascist governments on the Left and decentralized governments on the right.
    
    I would say that racism is purely a political construct though of fascists. About the only time racism is discussed is either when you sit down with a doctor to discuss heredity issues or when discussing political rights, or the lack thereof, for people of different races. Now when it comes to discussing race at length, this comes mostly from the Left. The Left is fixated on race and race baits at every turn. You might even say that they are fixated on race as much as your typical Nazi back in the day, only, the Left is at war with the white race as where Hitler was at war with other races.

Naturally, when you bring this up the Left brings up the neo-Nazi protestors that they say Trump failed to condemn adequately, even though he did do so. Additionally, if you ever sit down and talk to these neo-Nazi types, you will find that they are not conservatives at all, but socialists like Hitler. Again, they have as much in common with the Left EXCEPT hating whites instead of blacks. They both hate Jews, only, the Left is fixated on attacking Zionism as their Jewish hate fix.

About the only reason neo-Nazi types support Trump is that he said he wanted to build a wall. They want to keep out darker skinned people as where the typical Trump supporter just wants to have safe immigration without letting groups like MS 13 in the country.

The interview Dinesh D'souza did with White Nationalist richard spencer shows this...he is not anything close to an American Conservative and shares more, philosophically with the democrats....

It's funny that you don't realize you're actually the Liberal Leftist rather than Richard Spencer who fits the Authoritarian Right according to classical definitions.

 

[2aguy]

Some will claim that nationalism is a tenet of fascism. I believe that is mistaken. After all, if nationalism is a tenet of fascism, then I suppose it could be argued that Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Gandhi, all fervent nationalists, were fascists.

Fascism was the evolution of Nationalism, to have Nationalists regulate society for National interests, instead of what we have where Capitalists regulate society for Capitalist interest, which means selling Porn, selling Drugs, selling Abortions, selling Gangster Rap music, hiring 10's of millions of illegal immigrants, and outsourcing 10's of millions of jobs out of the country.

Fascism is simply socialism...... like ice cream flavors, chocolate, strawberry and vanilla, they are all still ice cream....fascism, nazism and communism are simply flavors of socialism....

I think this is a great definition of fascism....

Fascism: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty

As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie.
Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism.
Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners.

Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.)
Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically.

In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace.Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions.

Even Stalin was to the Right of modern Republicans, and modern Democrats.

Stalin abolished abortion, criminalized Homosexuality, and had supported the deportations of groups for a more homogenous society.

That isn't the America Right.....

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Some will claim that nationalism is a tenet of fascism. I believe that is mistaken. After all, if nationalism is a tenet of fascism, then I suppose it could be argued that Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Mahatma Gandhi, all fervent nationalists, were fascists.

Fascism was the evolution of Nationalism, to have Nationalists regulate society for National interests, instead of what we have where Capitalists regulate society for Capitalist interest, which means selling Porn, selling Drugs, selling Abortions, selling Gangster Rap music, hiring 10's of millions of illegal immigrants, and outsourcing 10's of millions of jobs out of the country.

Fascism is simply socialism...... like ice cream flavors, chocolate, strawberry and vanilla, they are all still ice cream....fascism, nazism and communism are simply flavors of socialism....

I think this is a great definition of fascism....

Fascism: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty

As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie.
Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism.
Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners.

Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.)
Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically.

In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace.Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions.

Even Stalin was to the Right of modern Republicans, and modern Democrats.

Stalin abolished abortion, criminalized Homosexuality, and had supported the deportations of groups for a more homogenous society.

That isn't the America Right.....

The first Right-Wingers were the Authoritarian Monarchy of France, and the first Left-Wingers were the Capitalists for loosening or "Liberalism" of laws, and economies in France.

FACT.

America has since gone full retard, and thrown politics upside down.

Why? Probably to fool people to make them weak, and impotent.

 

[boedicca]

A basic tenant of fascism (and for that matter, all authoritarian-totalitarian systems) is to crush the individual under the boot of power. That power can be held by a monarch, a dictator, a theorcracy or just a howling mob. The end result is the same: to terrorize individuals into abject submission.

Here's a guide to the Ritual Defamation used to do so:

The Degeneration of Belief: Compiled By Laird Wilcox

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yes, Hitler's version of fascism is ideologically different than Mussolini's.

I believe you'll find this of interest.


One of those interesting facts that helps verify that Hitler was as much a Leftist as Stalin is that Hitler made MayDay his Nazi holiday, too.

The Nazis sought to gain support of workers by declaring May Day, a day celebrated by organized labour, to be a paid holiday and held celebrations on 1 May 1933 to honour German workers Life and Death in the Third Reich
byPeter Fritzsche p. 45


The regime also insisted through propaganda that all Germans take part in the May Day celebrations in the hope that this would help break down class hostility between workers and burghers.[13]Songs in praise of labour and workers were played by state radio throughout May Day as well as an airshow in Berlin and fireworks.[13]Hitler spoke of workers as patriots who had built Germany's industrial strength and had honourably served in the war and claimed that they had been oppressed undereconomic liberalism.[14]Berliner Morgenpostthat had been strongly associated with the political left in the past praised the regime's May Day celebrations.[14]
Volksgemeinschaft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Here's Stalin's version....





And, Stalin helped Mussolini set up his May Day celebration...

'The youngest prime minister in Italian history,....Mussolini was showered with accolades from sundry quarters.... Stalin supplied Mussolini with the plans of the May Day parades in Red Square,to help him polish up his Fascist pageants....He conquered Ethiopia, madea Pact of Steel with Germany, introduced anti-Jewish measures in 1938,came into the war as Hitler's very junior partner,..." The Mystery of Fascism by David Ramsay Steele



Socialist, fascists, Nazis, communists......Leftist all.
As are Progressives and Modern Liberals.

 

[baileyn45]

I can't believe the posters on this thread refusing to recognise the claims of the founder of fascism as to what are its tenets. Not to mention the ludicrous arguments employed, as though to accept one tenet means to accept all. I'm out of here before I catch their disease.

Oh, actually, when I look at who they are, I can't believe I can't believe it.

Actually, Mussolini was not the founder of fascism.

Giovanni Gentile - Wikipedia