What are Liberals trying to Liberalize?

[Liberty]

Since the father of liberalism, John Locke, wrote his famous treatise on government (and the second one which is more famous), the term liberal had its root word "lib" which is short for "liber," or "liberty" which is defined as, "free." So...how is a liberal today in any way associated with promoting liberty? Seems to me unless it has something to do with homosexuality the liberal will always prefer to create laws and regulation, which are inherent in their definition a means to remove liberty, more than they are concerned with repealing unnecessary laws and regulation that remove liberty. How odd.

Liberals believe in freedom for all, not just a few. Currently we arent "liberizing" anything, but we are trying to "liberate" our future from the wealthy elite who use their power and influence to create a corporate welfare state by which all wealth is redistributed to the top 1%.

We believe a man should keep the product of his labor, not be forced to give it to Baseball stadiums, New Walmarts or Oil companies in the form of tax breaks, subsidies and grants.

We believe that everyone should pay their own way, but if someone should stumble, we should extend a helping hand, but NOT a hand out.

We believe that ALL humans are created equal regardless of race, gender, religion, age, sexual preference or financial status.

We believe that Big Government should keep their hands out of a womans vagina, out of our bedrooms and out of our marriages.

We believe it is wrong to exclude any group of people from the rights and priviledges enjoyed by the rest of society.

We believe in Mom and Pop stores, Family owned farms that grows actual food and the American ingenuity, excellence and ambition to always look to the future and build a better society through hard work, strong character and American values.

We believe that while a strong military is important, extending a friendly hand to the rest of the world might be just as important.

We believe that a strong Middle Class is essential for a strong economy and a strong nation.

We believe in America.

so you throw the OWS talking points at me to justify modern liberalism. I must say I did not expect that but am also not surprised.

So, to you, being a liberal means socialistic. Got it. I still don't see how that fits with the definition though.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Yeah......that's it. You can't communicate so my brain is the size of a pea. perfect.

Anything else? And here I was thinking rdean and RW were the popes of stupid town. I think you just might take the cake.

Dummy. I have been generally bored by the premise.....but still have participated in this dopey thread at a higher level than you are even capable of. re-read your fucking OP and tell me how you are an expert communicator.

 

[Liberty]

OK. How many examples do you want?

Obvious ways in which the modern liberal seeks to promote liberty:

Legalization of recreational drugs.
Freedom of choice regarding a woman's reproductive organs.
Making it EASIER to vote rather than more difficult.
Oppose the FCC's attack on freedom of speech and expression.
Oppose the Patriot Act

Does this answer your obvious question to your satisfaction?

1. fair enough
2. what about the choice of the little human inside her? Equal rights, no?
3. How much easier could it be?
4. Really? I hear Libs want to silence opposing views in states such as california. Why not just get rid of the FCC? I don't see it in the constitution.
5. fair enough, yet you are for cameras on every intersection right?

Also, no. Where is a liberal proposing legislation to reduce the U.S. Code?

 

[Liberty]

Yeah......that's it. You can't communicate so my brain is the size of a pea. perfect.

Anything else? And here I was thinking rdean and RW were the popes of stupid town. I think you just might take the cake.

Dummy. I have been generally bored by the premise.....but still have participated in this dopey thread at a higher level than you are even capable of. re-read your fucking OP and tell me how you are an expert communicator.

John Locke and Ed Schultz both claim to be liberals. By the definition which one is more true to it?

 

[LoneLaugher]

OK. How many examples do you want?

Obvious ways in which the modern liberal seeks to promote liberty:

Legalization of recreational drugs.
Freedom of choice regarding a woman's reproductive organs.
Making it EASIER to vote rather than more difficult.
Oppose the FCC's attack on freedom of speech and expression.
Oppose the Patriot Act

Does this answer your obvious question to your satisfaction?

1. fair enough
2. what about the choice of the little human inside her? Equal rights, no?
3. How much easier could it be?
4. Really? I hear Libs want to silence opposing views in states such as california.
5. fair enough, yet you are for cameras on every intersection right?

No. What gave you that idea?

 

[Liberty]

OK. How many examples do you want?

Obvious ways in which the modern liberal seeks to promote liberty:

Legalization of recreational drugs.
Freedom of choice regarding a woman's reproductive organs.
Making it EASIER to vote rather than more difficult.
Oppose the FCC's attack on freedom of speech and expression.
Oppose the Patriot Act

Does this answer your obvious question to your satisfaction?

1. fair enough
2. what about the choice of the little human inside her? Equal rights, no?
3. How much easier could it be?
4. Really? I hear Libs want to silence opposing views in states such as california.
5. fair enough, yet you are for cameras on every intersection right?

No. What gave you that idea?

just typical liberal legislation in liberal towns like LA and detroit. Privacy concerns and whatnot.

 

[Vidi]

Since the father of liberalism, John Locke, wrote his famous treatise on government (and the second one which is more famous), the term liberal had its root word "lib" which is short for "liber," or "liberty" which is defined as, "free." So...how is a liberal today in any way associated with promoting liberty? Seems to me unless it has something to do with homosexuality the liberal will always prefer to create laws and regulation, which are inherent in their definition a means to remove liberty, more than they are concerned with repealing unnecessary laws and regulation that remove liberty. How odd.

Liberals believe in freedom for all, not just a few. Currently we arent "liberizing" anything, but we are trying to "liberate" our future from the wealthy elite who use their power and influence to create a corporate welfare state by which all wealth is redistributed to the top 1%.

We believe a man should keep the product of his labor, not be forced to give it to Baseball stadiums, New Walmarts or Oil companies in the form of tax breaks, subsidies and grants.

We believe that everyone should pay their own way, but if someone should stumble, we should extend a helping hand, but NOT a hand out.

We believe that ALL humans are created equal regardless of race, gender, religion, age, sexual preference or financial status.

We believe that Big Government should keep their hands out of a womans vagina, out of our bedrooms and out of our marriages.

We believe it is wrong to exclude any group of people from the rights and priviledges enjoyed by the rest of society.

We believe in Mom and Pop stores, Family owned farms that grows actual food and the American ingenuity, excellence and ambition to always look to the future and build a better society through hard work, strong character and American values.

We believe that while a strong military is important, extending a friendly hand to the rest of the world might be just as important.

We believe that a strong Middle Class is essential for a strong economy and a strong nation.

We believe in America.

so you throw the OWS talking points at me to justify modern liberalism. I must say I did not expect that but am also not surprised.

So, to you, being a liberal means socialistic. Got it. I still don't see how that fits with the definition though.

Were those OWS talking points? I honestly just brought them up off the top of my head.

So Defending Liberty is Socialistic now?

Of course you dont see how it fits the definition of Liberal...because youve been indoctrinated to believe its something else entirely. Liberals are no better, so dont think its an attack on the right.


Liberal does not equal Socialist, just as True Conservatives are not Fascists. Thats just the fear mongers seperating us.

grow a pair, think for yourself. Ask a Liberal what we think on an issue by issue basis. It just might surprise you on how much we will actually AGREE upon.

 

[Liberty]

Think for myself? You are redefining americanism as detesting those who are successful instead of being inspired by them. Take your OWS shit elsewhere man.

 

[LoneLaugher]

1. fair enough
2. what about the choice of the little human inside her? Equal rights, no?
3. How much easier could it be?
4. Really? I hear Libs want to silence opposing views in states such as california.
5. fair enough, yet you are for cameras on every intersection right?

No. What gave you that idea?

just typical liberal legislation in liberal towns like LA and detroit. Privacy concerns and whatnot.

Are you now prepared to say that modern liberals are indeed finding ways to promote liberty? Has this thread been an eye opener for you?

 

[Liberty]

No. What gave you that idea?

just typical liberal legislation in liberal towns like LA and detroit. Privacy concerns and whatnot.

Are you now prepared to say that modern liberals are indeed finding ways to promote liberty? Has this thread been an eye opener for you?

Not really. I was looking for something more substantial in context of those in power. Maybe a liberal promoting the legalization of purchasing health insurance over state lines, or allowing my six year old niece to sell lemonade in her yard. Simple stuff, but principled in liberty that modern liberals seek to regulate or ban that conflicts with the definition.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Since the father of liberalism, John Locke, wrote his famous treatise on government (and the second one which is more famous), the term liberal had its root word "lib" which is short for "liber," or "liberty" which is defined as, "free." So...how is a liberal today in any way associated with promoting liberty? Seems to me unless it has something to do with homosexuality the liberal will always prefer to create laws and regulation, which are inherent in their definition a means to remove liberty, more than they are concerned with repealing unnecessary laws and regulation that remove liberty. How odd.

Liberals believe in freedom for all, not just a few. Currently we arent "liberizing" anything, but we are trying to "liberate" our future from the wealthy elite who use their power and influence to create a corporate welfare state by which all wealth is redistributed to the top 1%.

I agree with this. And the problem is most "liberals", real liberals (I'm extending this to you because you actually answered with a good post) are very distant. The radical left is in full swing and the answers to the problems are being sought completely wrong by that group. So far, you identify closely with liberals.

We believe a man should keep the product of his labor, not be forced to give it to Baseball stadiums, New Walmarts or Oil companies in the form of tax breaks, subsidies and grants.

Well, if we're extending that to how I'm reading it. No income tax, no corporate welfare or lender of last resort (nanny state shit), solid monetary policy for all and rather than planners, then we agree again.

We believe that everyone should pay their own way, but if someone should stumble, we should extend a helping hand, but NOT a hand out.

I agree, when the action is voluntary rather than coercive.

We believe that ALL humans are created equal regardless of race, gender, religion, age, sexual preference or financial status.

We believe that Big Government should keep their hands out of a womans vagina, out of our bedrooms and out of our marriages.

Agreed again. Government can not legislate morality.

We believe it is wrong to exclude any group of people from the rights and priviledges enjoyed by the rest of society.

Agreed again. Liberty for all. Yet, current "liberal" philosophy, along with neoconservative, is big government statist corporatism. Go figure.....

We believe in Mom and Pop stores, Family owned farms that grows actual food and the American ingenuity, excellence and ambition to always look to the future and build a better society through hard work, strong character and American values.

Sounds excellent. But what creates this climate???

We believe that while a strong military is important, extending a friendly hand to the rest of the world might be just as important.

Lending a helping hand and giving handouts are two separate things.

We believe that a strong Middle Class is essential for a strong economy and a strong nation.

A strong middle class is a symptom (a great one) of a strong economy, not the other way around.

We believe in America.

So do I. Though my thoughts it will do what is right diminish daily.

 

[LoneLaugher]

just typical liberal legislation in liberal towns like LA and detroit. Privacy concerns and whatnot.

Are you now prepared to say that modern liberals are indeed finding ways to promote liberty? Has this thread been an eye opener for you?

Not really. I was looking for something more substantial in context of those in power. Maybe a liberal promoting the legalization of purchasing health insurance over state lines, or allowing my six year old niece to sell lemonade in her yard. Simple stuff, but principled in liberty that modern liberals seek to regulate or ban that conflicts with the definition.

You are sure that I am against your niece selling lemonade, are you?

Is this where you decide to dig your heels in and refuse to admit that you were mistaken in your poorly written OP? Will you find more and more silly ways to move the goalposts so that you can avoid doing the adult thing and ceding the point?

 

[Liberty]

I will admit only that you personally may think one way, those of your same label in power think another. I have never seen a liberal politician ever come out in favor for purchasing healthcare over state lines to drive down costs for example. and the lemonade thing was a metaphor for business startups.

(last post for the night, will pick up tomorrow, thx for the entertainment)

 

[Vidi]

Since the father of liberalism, John Locke, wrote his famous treatise on government (and the second one which is more famous), the term liberal had its root word "lib" which is short for "liber," or "liberty" which is defined as, "free." So...how is a liberal today in any way associated with promoting liberty? Seems to me unless it has something to do with homosexuality the liberal will always prefer to create laws and regulation, which are inherent in their definition a means to remove liberty, more than they are concerned with repealing unnecessary laws and regulation that remove liberty. How odd.

Liberals believe in freedom for all, not just a few. Currently we arent "liberizing" anything, but we are trying to "liberate" our future from the wealthy elite who use their power and influence to create a corporate welfare state by which all wealth is redistributed to the top 1%.

I agree with this. And the problem is most "liberals", real liberals (I'm extending this to you because you actually answered with a good post) are very distant. The radical left is in full swing and the answers to the problems are being sought completely wrong by that group. So far, you identify closely with liberals.

We believe a man should keep the product of his labor, not be forced to give it to Baseball stadiums, New Walmarts or Oil companies in the form of tax breaks, subsidies and grants.

Well, if we're extending that to how I'm reading it. No income tax, no corporate welfare or lender of last resort (nanny state shit), solid monetary policy for all and rather than planners, then we agree again.

We believe that everyone should pay their own way, but if someone should stumble, we should extend a helping hand, but NOT a hand out.

I agree, when the action is voluntary rather than coercive.

We believe that ALL humans are created equal regardless of race, gender, religion, age, sexual preference or financial status.

We believe that Big Government should keep their hands out of a womans vagina, out of our bedrooms and out of our marriages.

Agreed again. Government can not legislate morality.

We believe it is wrong to exclude any group of people from the rights and priviledges enjoyed by the rest of society.

Agreed again. Liberty for all. Yet, current "liberal" philosophy, along with neoconservative, is big government statist corporatism. Go figure.....

We believe in Mom and Pop stores, Family owned farms that grows actual food and the American ingenuity, excellence and ambition to always look to the future and build a better society through hard work, strong character and American values.

Sounds excellent. But what creates this climate???

We believe that while a strong military is important, extending a friendly hand to the rest of the world might be just as important.

Lending a helping hand and giving handouts are two separate things.

We believe that a strong Middle Class is essential for a strong economy and a strong nation.

A strong middle class is a symptom (a great one) of a strong economy, not the other way around.

We believe in America.

So do I. Though my thoughts it will do what is right diminish daily.

Though we may disagree with how to reach the goal, we agree ON the goal.

So how much bullshit is this whole left-right battle?

 

[Vidi]

just typical liberal legislation in liberal towns like LA and detroit. Privacy concerns and whatnot.

Are you now prepared to say that modern liberals are indeed finding ways to promote liberty? Has this thread been an eye opener for you?

Not really. I was looking for something more substantial in context of those in power. Maybe a liberal promoting the legalization of purchasing health insurance over state lines, or allowing my six year old niece to sell lemonade in her yard. Simple stuff, but principled in liberty that modern liberals seek to regulate or ban that conflicts with the definition.

It's funny you should mention interstate sales.


From Conservapedia:

In the Requirements for Insurance Companies:

Does allow states to form compacts in order to allow the interstate sale of insurance.

ObamaCare - Conservapedia

 

[regent]

I suspect one of the early liberal goals was to liberate men's minds from the garbage Europeans had been fed over the years. They were fed this junk to keep the elite and monarchs in power and the people ignorant and docile. The period when liberalism began to take root was called Age of Enlightenment and Age of Reason. It was the beginning of ideas and some of the ideas concerned governments, people, equality, economic systems and bingo, America came on the scene. Was any nation more liberal in 1776?

 

[Vidi]

I only mentioned gay rights that because there is a liberal platform in the modern political arena to give equal benefits of marriage to human couples of all sexual orientations. That is a LIBERAL view by definition of the word LIBERAL. That, however, is the ONLY liberal idea that I can think of, in this modern world, that actually FITS with the definition of LIBERAL. I am asking if there are any other MODERN LIBERAL platforms that actually fit the DEFINITION of the word LIBERAL!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS ALL I AM ASKING! HOW IS THIS ROCKET SCIENCE?!

LL, your brain must be the size of a fucking pea.

because Big Government telling people who they can and cannot spend their lives with is what?

It sure isnt liberty.

If you really are for government control of peoples private lives, you need to change your forum name....unless Liberty was meant to be ironic...was it?


So yea, FREEDOM is a liberal value, but its not exclusive to liberals. Real Conservatives who truly want less government control wouldnt chastise Liberals for oppsing Big Government interfereing in the private lives of the citizens, theyd join them ion the common cause.

 

[Liberty]

I only mentioned gay rights that because there is a liberal platform in the modern political arena to give equal benefits of marriage to human couples of all sexual orientations. That is a LIBERAL view by definition of the word LIBERAL. That, however, is the ONLY liberal idea that I can think of, in this modern world, that actually FITS with the definition of LIBERAL. I am asking if there are any other MODERN LIBERAL platforms that actually fit the DEFINITION of the word LIBERAL!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS ALL I AM ASKING! HOW IS THIS ROCKET SCIENCE?!

LL, your brain must be the size of a fucking pea.

because Big Government telling people who they can and cannot spend their lives with is what?

It sure isnt liberty.

If you really are for government control of peoples private lives, you need to change your forum name....unless Liberty was meant to be ironic...was it?


So yea, FREEDOM is a liberal value, but its not exclusive to liberals. Real Conservatives who truly want less government control wouldnt chastise Liberals for oppsing Big Government interfereing in the private lives of the citizens, theyd join them ion the common cause.

Wow...you are so fucking dense dude. I never said that government involved in marriage is CORRECT OR CONSTITUTIONAL, nor did I say it was a good idea. I simply (VERY SIMPLY) pointed out that the DESIRE to have all Americans regardless of any social standing have equal access to all benefits of the CURRENT (notice I am not saying it is correct or making any judgments on it, I am simply acknowledging it's existence) way in which marriage is handled in this country, BY DEFINITION, meets and adheres tot he definition of the word liberal. I am a libertarian. I want government out of marriage all together. But that is NOT the point of this thread, and you sending me a neg calling me a homophobe is severely jacked up, but it's ok I know you wanted an excuse to neg me so it's cool. Also, you bringing up conservatism is a red herring as far as this topic is concerned, and I do not appreciate it. I find it hard to believe that English is the first language of some of you people. Really. Astounding.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Would any "liberal" answer any of the questions I have proposed? Or do you only have ad hominems, red herrings, and appeal to emotion (which by the way when you use, you basically are forfeiting the debate)?

I challenge any liberal to write something coherent and understandable on the relation of the definition of the term "liberal" and the practice of the modern liberal in the United States today in defense of the idea that they are one and the same. Defend your ideology.

A debate on what the term liberal means and how it's applied to modern day politics?

Why? It's mostly subjective anyway.

Liberalism isn't subjective - the word has a meaning. That's why we have words like authoritarian, totalitarian, anarchy etc....

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Liberals believe in freedom for all, not just a few. Currently we arent "liberizing" anything, but we are trying to "liberate" our future from the wealthy elite who use their power and influence to create a corporate welfare state by which all wealth is redistributed to the top 1%.

I agree with this. And the problem is most "liberals", real liberals (I'm extending this to you because you actually answered with a good post) are very distant. The radical left is in full swing and the answers to the problems are being sought completely wrong by that group. So far, you identify closely with liberals.

We believe a man should keep the product of his labor, not be forced to give it to Baseball stadiums, New Walmarts or Oil companies in the form of tax breaks, subsidies and grants.

Well, if we're extending that to how I'm reading it. No income tax, no corporate welfare or lender of last resort (nanny state shit), solid monetary policy for all and rather than planners, then we agree again.

We believe that everyone should pay their own way, but if someone should stumble, we should extend a helping hand, but NOT a hand out.

I agree, when the action is voluntary rather than coercive.

We believe that ALL humans are created equal regardless of race, gender, religion, age, sexual preference or financial status.

We believe that Big Government should keep their hands out of a womans vagina, out of our bedrooms and out of our marriages.

Agreed again. Government can not legislate morality.

We believe it is wrong to exclude any group of people from the rights and priviledges enjoyed by the rest of society.

Agreed again. Liberty for all. Yet, current "liberal" philosophy, along with neoconservative, is big government statist corporatism. Go figure.....

We believe in Mom and Pop stores, Family owned farms that grows actual food and the American ingenuity, excellence and ambition to always look to the future and build a better society through hard work, strong character and American values.

Sounds excellent. But what creates this climate???

We believe that while a strong military is important, extending a friendly hand to the rest of the world might be just as important.

Lending a helping hand and giving handouts are two separate things.

We believe that a strong Middle Class is essential for a strong economy and a strong nation.

A strong middle class is a symptom (a great one) of a strong economy, not the other way around.

We believe in America.

So do I. Though my thoughts it will do what is right diminish daily.

Though we may disagree with how to reach the goal, we agree ON the goal.

So how much bullshit is this whole left-right battle?

Disagreeing on reaching the goals has always been the left/right thing. Which eventually just morphed into who is gonna spend us into oblivion on what policies and services each side believes is the best, rather than putting the country first.

I'm sure we seriously disagree on how to achieve these goals. But if nothing more, you actually answered the question.