What are Liberals trying to Liberalize?

[regent]

Well let's start with classical liberalism, what are their beliefs, how does it differ from other forms of liberalism? What is the beginning of classical liberalism and who are some of the individuals involved in defining that belief? Some of the nonbelievers would probably like a source for the information.
There are a lot of Americans that want to have an open mind as you do, so they want to know what they have to believe.

 

[Vidi]

Im with you on everything but the illegal immigrant portion.

Understandable.

As a non-conservative, however, you’d have the good sense to recuse yourself from the immigration argument, unlike a conservative who would argue an antidotal, subjective and irrelevant point.

Conservatives are ignorant of the fact – or ignore the fact – that illegal immigrants are entitled to due process per the 14th Amendment. As all persons are entitled to due process, they are entitled to a presumption of innocence as well until proven guilty in a court of law, that includes the alleged ‘crime’ of entering the country undocumented, or remaining in the country undocumented. To subject those assumed to be in the country illegally to some punitive measure absent evidence of the crime or lacking an adjudication of guilt, is illegal and un-Constitutional.

To not allow a student to attend college because it is ‘believed’ he is here illegally, therefore, would also be un-Constitutional, as no due process has taken place to determine guilt or innocence, and all persons are entitled to his 5th Amendment right to not be a witness against himself, as the burden of proof lies with the state and only in the context of an actual judicial proceeding.

Conservatives are neither ignorant of, nor ignore that all persons within the United States of America are entitled to due process of law. Nor, do I know of any proposal by anyone credible, of any political leaning, who advocates that illegals should not be afforded the due process of law.

I am also sure that any person denied a right to enroll in college has ample opportunity in the courts to seek remedy for a wrongful denial of that right. Some states do require evidence of residency within that state for those who seek reduced tuition for state residents.

BTW, conservatives are widely divided on illegal immigration and the remedies for it. In fact, conservatives are widely divided on a number of political issues, and that pretty well belies your concept of conservative dogma.

Where are the Conservatives? I sure don't see them anywhere. All I see are mudslinging, intrusive government NeoCons. They are NOT Conservatives, no matter how much they pretend to be.

 

[Foxfyre]

Understandable.

As a non-conservative, however, you’d have the good sense to recuse yourself from the immigration argument, unlike a conservative who would argue an antidotal, subjective and irrelevant point.

Conservatives are ignorant of the fact – or ignore the fact – that illegal immigrants are entitled to due process per the 14th Amendment. As all persons are entitled to due process, they are entitled to a presumption of innocence as well until proven guilty in a court of law, that includes the alleged ‘crime’ of entering the country undocumented, or remaining in the country undocumented. To subject those assumed to be in the country illegally to some punitive measure absent evidence of the crime or lacking an adjudication of guilt, is illegal and un-Constitutional.

To not allow a student to attend college because it is ‘believed’ he is here illegally, therefore, would also be un-Constitutional, as no due process has taken place to determine guilt or innocence, and all persons are entitled to his 5th Amendment right to not be a witness against himself, as the burden of proof lies with the state and only in the context of an actual judicial proceeding.

Conservatives are neither ignorant of, nor ignore that all persons within the United States of America are entitled to due process of law. Nor, do I know of any proposal by anyone credible, of any political leaning, who advocates that illegals should not be afforded the due process of law.

I am also sure that any person denied a right to enroll in college has ample opportunity in the courts to seek remedy for a wrongful denial of that right. Some states do require evidence of residency within that state for those who seek reduced tuition for state residents.

BTW, conservatives are widely divided on illegal immigration and the remedies for it. In fact, conservatives are widely divided on a number of political issues, and that pretty well belies your concept of conservative dogma.

Where are the Conservatives? I sure don't see them anywhere. All I see are mudslinging, intrusive government NeoCons. They are NOT Conservatives, no matter how much they pretend to be.

Don't know where you're looking that all you see are mudslinging, intrusive government NeoCons. You really need to get out more and expand your horizons.

 

[Vidi]

Conservatives are neither ignorant of, nor ignore that all persons within the United States of America are entitled to due process of law. Nor, do I know of any proposal by anyone credible, of any political leaning, who advocates that illegals should not be afforded the due process of law.

I am also sure that any person denied a right to enroll in college has ample opportunity in the courts to seek remedy for a wrongful denial of that right. Some states do require evidence of residency within that state for those who seek reduced tuition for state residents.

BTW, conservatives are widely divided on illegal immigration and the remedies for it. In fact, conservatives are widely divided on a number of political issues, and that pretty well belies your concept of conservative dogma.

Where are the Conservatives? I sure don't see them anywhere. All I see are mudslinging, intrusive government NeoCons. They are NOT Conservatives, no matter how much they pretend to be.

Don't know where you're looking that all you see are mudslinging, intrusive government NeoCons. You really need to get out more and expand your horizons.

I need look no further than this forum as an example.
Ive yet to see ACTUAL Conservative values expressed here. Only mudslinging, big intrusive government NeoCons trying desperately shouting down the opposition.

 

[Foxfyre]

Where are the Conservatives? I sure don't see them anywhere. All I see are mudslinging, intrusive government NeoCons. They are NOT Conservatives, no matter how much they pretend to be.

Don't know where you're looking that all you see are mudslinging, intrusive government NeoCons. You really need to get out more and expand your horizons.

I need look no further than this forum as an example.
Ive yet to see ACTUAL Conservative values expressed here. Only mudslinging, big intrusive government NeoCons trying desperately shouting down the opposition.

Look at your post #162. There you have a member posting a well expressed, well thought out, pertinent, and thoughtful conservative point of view. No mud slinging. No suggestion that government should be intrusive. Not s single 'neocon' point of view expressed in several posts.

You responded to it with this:

Where are the Conservatives? I sure don't see them anywhere. All I see are mudslinging, intrusive government NeoCons. They are NOT Conservatives, no matter how much they pretend to be.

So which of you is 'mudslinging'? Like I said, you really need to get out more.