What are Herman Cain's plans? What is 9-9-9?

[Foxfyre]

Nope. I'm hung up on the fact that you talked about reducing taxes on their profits, then gave an example where you increased their revenue.
You're not being consistent.

If a business has $1,000,000 in costs and $1,000,000 in revenue and pays 25% corporate taxes, how much do they pay in taxes? What if that is reduced to 9% corporate taxes? How much do they pay?

If a business has an equal amount of expenses and revenues, they pay no corporate tax no matter what the tax rate is. That's how a big mega corporation like G.E. has not paid any U.S. corporate taxes for the last two years and won't again this year. How do they do that? By shifting all their profitability overseas and keeping only the money losers here in the U.S.A. If we reduce the U.S. corporate tax to an amount similar to or less than that the companies pay overseas, that is a strong incentive to keep operations and the jobs here in the states. Capice?

AND, if we get rid of all UNECESSARY regulation and mandates so that we are competitive in that regard to overseas operations, we will not only keep our businesses and jobs at home, but we will be inundated with requests from other countries wanting to do business here.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Analysis of Cain's plan in the Christian Science Monitor:

Herman Cain's '999 plan': long overdue tax reform or job killer? - CSMonitor.com

 

[peach174]

Nope. I'm hung up on the fact that you talked about reducing taxes on their profits, then gave an example where you increased their revenue.
You're not being consistent.

If a business has $1,000,000 in costs and $1,000,000 in revenue and pays 25% corporate taxes, how much do they pay in taxes? What if that is reduced to 9% corporate taxes? How much do they pay?

Corporations don't pay taxes they collect taxes from us the consumer.
Corp tax is 35% right now
It would be lowered to 9% a difference charged to consumers by 26%
Not only do we, the consumer pay the corp tax in our products we also have Fed Tax charges on our products.

 

[DontBeStupid]

If a business has an equal amount of expenses and revenues, they pay no corporate tax no matter what the tax rate is.

Which is what I've been saying. Thank you for agreeing with me.

That's how a big mega corporation like G.E. has not paid any U.S. corporate taxes for the last two years and won't again this year. How do they do that? By shifting all their profitability overseas and keeping only the money losers here in the U.S.A. If we reduce the U.S. corporate tax to an amount similar to or less than that the companies pay overseas, that is a strong incentive to keep operations and the jobs here in the states. Capice?

No. Not at all. How does lowering the taxes on profits suddenly mean labour and costs are cheaper here than overseas? It doesn't. How does lowering taxes suddenly increase demand for products in the U.S.? It doesn't. You're kidding yourself if you think taxes are the one and only reason companies go overseas.

AND, if we get rid of all UNECESSARY regulation and mandates so that we are competitive in that regard to overseas operations, we will not only keep our businesses and jobs at home, but we will be inundated with requests from other countries wanting to do business here.

This is totally separate from the topic at hand. We're discussing taxes and Cain's plan to alter taxes. If you want to discuss regulations, I suggest you start a new thread. I'll help get you going. You can talk about how 5 years ago the economy was growing nicely and jobs were being created and yet we had the exact same level of regulations then as we do now.

 

[DontBeStupid]

If a business has $1,000,000 in costs and $1,000,000 in revenue and pays 25% corporate taxes, how much do they pay in taxes? What if that is reduced to 9% corporate taxes? How much do they pay?

Corporations don't pay taxes they collect taxes from us the consumer.
Corp tax is 35% right now
It would be lowered to 9% a difference charged to consumers by 26%
Not only do we, the consumer pay the corp tax in our products we also have Fed Tax charges on our products.

Utterly false.

Payroll taxes that companies have to pay for employees, those get passed on to the consumer, yes. Corporate taxes are taxes paid on profits. These are not passed on consumers because they are not a cost of doing business.

 

[Foxfyre]

If a business has an equal amount of expenses and revenues, they pay no corporate tax no matter what the tax rate is.

Which is what I've been saying. Thank you for agreeing with me.

That's how a big mega corporation like G.E. has not paid any U.S. corporate taxes for the last two years and won't again this year. How do they do that? By shifting all their profitability overseas and keeping only the money losers here in the U.S.A. If we reduce the U.S. corporate tax to an amount similar to or less than that the companies pay overseas, that is a strong incentive to keep operations and the jobs here in the states. Capice?

No. Not at all. How does lowering the taxes on profits suddenly mean labour and costs are cheaper here than overseas? It doesn't. How does lowering taxes suddenly increase demand for products in the U.S.? It doesn't. You're kidding yourself if you think taxes are the one and only reason companies go overseas.

AND, if we get rid of all UNECESSARY regulation and mandates so that we are competitive in that regard to overseas operations, we will not only keep our businesses and jobs at home, but we will be inundated with requests from other countries wanting to do business here.

This is totally separate from the topic at hand. We're discussing taxes and Cain's plan to alter taxes. If you want to discuss regulations, I suggest you start a new thread. I'll help get you going. You can talk about how 5 years ago the economy was growing nicely and jobs were being created and yet we had the exact same level of regulations then as we do now.

It is all interrelated. A government mandate on business re how much they MUST pay their people and what provisions they MUST provide for their employees is a form of taxation on that business. Unnecessary regulation that increases the costs for or reduces the flexibility of a company is also a form of taxation. Get rid of unnecessary mandates and regulation, plus bring the corporate tax rate down out of the rafters, and American enterprise would take off like a rocket.

Currently with uncertainty re mandates, regulation, taxes, and other related policies, American business are currently outsourcing mega trillions of activity and/or are sitting on trillions of investment capital both here and abroad. Without any certainty of how much of their profits they will be allowed to keep or how much their costs are going to be, they won't risk that investment capital. Thus our real unemployment rate is approaching 20% and the economy is stalled.

I don't know whether I'm agreeing with all of Cain's ideas here--most especially the sales tax--but I can see how it is far superior to what we now have and how it would free up business to get back to work and start hiring people again. Is it the best system? I'm still studying on that but I think only a brainwashed idiot wouldn't at least give it a fair hearing.

 

[Rocko]

Will someone who likes Herman Cain as a candidate please campaign for him here. Give it your best shot.

I'd like to hear more about his plans for the nation from someone who feels informed enough to be a good advocate.





Edit: p.s. What are the odds of Cain being able to get his plans through Congress? Assume the best information campaign possible, to convince the people, so they can convince their representatives. Will that be enough? Will Congress cooperate?

9-9-9, is a gimmick that has absolutely no chance of being law...He can't explain to anyone exactly how he came up with the numbers 9-9-9, or give names of economists that helped him derive the plan, but hey he's Herm Cain and he's going to save the country...

We're seeing a lot of irrational exuberance these days.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Sorry.......but uncertainty comes with the territory. That is a bullshit excuse for hoarding cash in a shit economy. It ain't uncertainty about regulations and taxes......it is uncertainty about DEMAND that causes companies to hold on to cash.

 

[peach174]

If a business has $1,000,000 in costs and $1,000,000 in revenue and pays 25% corporate taxes, how much do they pay in taxes? What if that is reduced to 9% corporate taxes? How much do they pay?

Corporations don't pay taxes they collect taxes from us the consumer.
Corp tax is 35% right now
It would be lowered to 9% a difference charged to consumers by 26%
Not only do we, the consumer pay the corp tax in our products we also have Fed Tax charges on our products.

Utterly false.

Payroll taxes that companies have to pay for employees, those get passed on to the consumer, yes. Corporate taxes are taxes paid on profits. These are not passed on consumers because they are not a cost of doing business.

Payroll taxes are FICA and Cain's plan get rid of payroll taxes paid by the employee.

Payroll taxes must be withheld from an employee's paycheck. This is required by law. Employers must hand these withholdings over to various tax agencies. Payroll tax deductions include the following:

* Federal income tax withholding (based on withholding tables in Publication 15)
* Social Security tax withholding (6.2% up to the annual maximum)
* Medicare tax withholding (1.45%)
* State income tax withholding
* Various local tax withholdings (such as city, county, or school district taxes, state disability or unemployment insurance).
This is how Corp taxes works;
Corporate Welfare and Hidden Taxes
We the consumer pays for this.

 

[DontBeStupid]

If a business has an equal amount of expenses and revenues, they pay no corporate tax no matter what the tax rate is.

Which is what I've been saying. Thank you for agreeing with me.


No. Not at all. How does lowering the taxes on profits suddenly mean labour and costs are cheaper here than overseas? It doesn't. How does lowering taxes suddenly increase demand for products in the U.S.? It doesn't. You're kidding yourself if you think taxes are the one and only reason companies go overseas.

AND, if we get rid of all UNECESSARY regulation and mandates so that we are competitive in that regard to overseas operations, we will not only keep our businesses and jobs at home, but we will be inundated with requests from other countries wanting to do business here.

This is totally separate from the topic at hand. We're discussing taxes and Cain's plan to alter taxes. If you want to discuss regulations, I suggest you start a new thread. I'll help get you going. You can talk about how 5 years ago the economy was growing nicely and jobs were being created and yet we had the exact same level of regulations then as we do now.

It is all interrelated. A government mandate on business re how much they MUST pay their people and what provisions they MUST provide for their employees is a form of taxation on that business. Unnecessary regulation that increases the costs for or reduces the flexibility of a company is also a form of taxation. Get rid of unnecessary mandates and regulation, plus bring the corporate tax rate down out of the rafters, and American enterprise would take off like a rocket.

Currently with uncertainty re mandates, regulation, taxes, and other related policies, American business are currently outsourcing mega trillions of activity and/or are sitting on trillions of investment capital both here and abroad. Without any certainty of how much of their profits they will be allowed to keep or how much their costs are going to be, they won't risk that investment capital. Thus our real unemployment rate is approaching 20% and the economy is stalled.

I don't know whether I'm agreeing with all of Cain's ideas here--most especially the sales tax--but I can see how it is far superior to what we now have and how it would free up business to get back to work and start hiring people again. Is it the best system? I'm still studying on that but I think only a brainwashed idiot wouldn't at least give it a fair hearing.

Which is more important? The business? Or the people that work there?

That is the fundamental difference between me and you. I believe people are more important.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Corporations don't pay taxes they collect taxes from us the consumer.
Corp tax is 35% right now
It would be lowered to 9% a difference charged to consumers by 26%
Not only do we, the consumer pay the corp tax in our products we also have Fed Tax charges on our products.

Utterly false.

Payroll taxes that companies have to pay for employees, those get passed on to the consumer, yes. Corporate taxes are taxes paid on profits. These are not passed on consumers because they are not a cost of doing business.

Payroll taxes are FICA and Cain's plan get rid of payroll taxes paid by the employee.

Payroll taxes must be withheld from an employee's paycheck. This is required by law. Employers must hand these withholdings over to various tax agencies. Payroll tax deductions include the following:

* Federal income tax withholding (based on withholding tables in Publication 15)
* Social Security tax withholding (6.2% up to the annual maximum)
* Medicare tax withholding (1.45%)
* State income tax withholding
* Various local tax withholdings (such as city, county, or school district taxes, state disability or unemployment insurance).
This is how Corp taxes works;
Corporate Welfare and Hidden Taxes
We the consumer pays for this.

Now you're mixing terms. We've been discussing the Corporate Tax Rate, which is a specific thing. To now claim ANY tax a corporation pays qualifies as this Corporate Tax is ludicrous and flat out incorrect.

Get your terms right. Cain wants to get rid of all payroll taxes and drop the corporate tax rate to 9%. That's what we're discussing.

 

[peach174]

If a business has an equal amount of expenses and revenues, they pay no corporate tax no matter what the tax rate is.

Which is what I've been saying. Thank you for agreeing with me.


No. Not at all. How does lowering the taxes on profits suddenly mean labour and costs are cheaper here than overseas? It doesn't. How does lowering taxes suddenly increase demand for products in the U.S.? It doesn't. You're kidding yourself if you think taxes are the one and only reason companies go overseas.

AND, if we get rid of all UNECESSARY regulation and mandates so that we are competitive in that regard to overseas operations, we will not only keep our businesses and jobs at home, but we will be inundated with requests from other countries wanting to do business here.

This is totally separate from the topic at hand. We're discussing taxes and Cain's plan to alter taxes. If you want to discuss regulations, I suggest you start a new thread. I'll help get you going. You can talk about how 5 years ago the economy was growing nicely and jobs were being created and yet we had the exact same level of regulations then as we do now.

It is all interrelated. A government mandate on business re how much they MUST pay their people and what provisions they MUST provide for their employees is a form of taxation on that business. Unnecessary regulation that increases the costs for or reduces the flexibility of a company is also a form of taxation. Get rid of unnecessary mandates and regulation, plus bring the corporate tax rate down out of the rafters, and American enterprise would take off like a rocket.

Currently with uncertainty re mandates, regulation, taxes, and other related policies, American business are currently outsourcing mega trillions of activity and/or are sitting on trillions of investment capital both here and abroad. Without any certainty of how much of their profits they will be allowed to keep or how much their costs are going to be, they won't risk that investment capital. Thus our real unemployment rate is approaching 20% and the economy is stalled.

I don't know whether I'm agreeing with all of Cain's ideas here--most especially the sales tax--but I can see how it is far superior to what we now have and how it would free up business to get back to work and start hiring people again. Is it the best system? I'm still studying on that but I think only a brainwashed idiot wouldn't at least give it a fair hearing.

Congress would change it and tweak it or else just vote it down. But it would then get congress to get a bill of a flat or sales tax passed. And Cain would not let it go until our horrible tax plan that we have now would be completely gone.

 

[The T]

Which is what I've been saying. Thank you for agreeing with me.


No. Not at all. How does lowering the taxes on profits suddenly mean labour and costs are cheaper here than overseas? It doesn't. How does lowering taxes suddenly increase demand for products in the U.S.? It doesn't. You're kidding yourself if you think taxes are the one and only reason companies go overseas.


This is totally separate from the topic at hand. We're discussing taxes and Cain's plan to alter taxes. If you want to discuss regulations, I suggest you start a new thread. I'll help get you going. You can talk about how 5 years ago the economy was growing nicely and jobs were being created and yet we had the exact same level of regulations then as we do now.

It is all interrelated. A government mandate on business re how much they MUST pay their people and what provisions they MUST provide for their employees is a form of taxation on that business. Unnecessary regulation that increases the costs for or reduces the flexibility of a company is also a form of taxation. Get rid of unnecessary mandates and regulation, plus bring the corporate tax rate down out of the rafters, and American enterprise would take off like a rocket.

Currently with uncertainty re mandates, regulation, taxes, and other related policies, American business are currently outsourcing mega trillions of activity and/or are sitting on trillions of investment capital both here and abroad. Without any certainty of how much of their profits they will be allowed to keep or how much their costs are going to be, they won't risk that investment capital. Thus our real unemployment rate is approaching 20% and the economy is stalled.

I don't know whether I'm agreeing with all of Cain's ideas here--most especially the sales tax--but I can see how it is far superior to what we now have and how it would free up business to get back to work and start hiring people again. Is it the best system? I'm still studying on that but I think only a brainwashed idiot wouldn't at least give it a fair hearing.

Congress would change it and tweak it or else just vote it down. But it would then get congress to get a bill of a flat or sales tax passed. And Cain would not let it go until our horrible tax plan that we have now would be completely gone.

And that's the attraction with Herman. Thinking outside the box to come up with a solution. Too many are ensconsed in a 100 year old system that has proven to be a failure with all the deviants that have been wrought in those 100 years.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Congress would change it and tweak it or else just vote it down. But it would then get congress to get a bill of a flat or sales tax passed. And Cain would not let it go until our horrible tax plan that we have now would be completely gone.

Our current system isn't perfect, but at least it doesn't discourage spending. Cain's plan discourages spending, and with 2/3 of our economy driven by consumer spending, putting forth a plan that rewards spending less, is not a good idea.

 

[Foxfyre]

Sorry.......but uncertainty comes with the territory. That is a bullshit excuse for hoarding cash in a shit economy. It ain't uncertainty about regulations and taxes......it is uncertainty about DEMAND that causes companies to hold on to cash.

A successful businessman does not commit capital until there is demand, but a successful businessman knows how to tailor a business to meet the existing demand, or in some cases to create a demand. But you are dead wrong that uncertainty about regulations and taxes not being a factor. Whenever a good blackjack player or a completent businessman cannot calculate the odds of risk, he does not take the risk.

 

[GHook93]

First, Cain's 9-9-9 plan is only phase one.
Second, get it right for the man's site!

999 | Herman Cain for President
Economic Guiding Principles
1. Production drives the economy, not spending.

• We can not spend our way to prosperity.
• Government spending IS taxation.
• Government spending is like taking a bucket of water from the deep end of the pool, pouring it in the shallow end. Then they HOPE that the water level will CHANGE.

2. Risk taking drives growth .

• Business formation and job creation are dependent on entrepreneurs taking risks.
• Investors who fund those entrepreneurs likewise take risks.

3. Measurements must be dependable.

• A dollar must always be a dollar just as an hour is always 60 minutes.
• Sound money is crucial for prosperity.

We Must Unite Not Divide

• When one party seeks to spend so that the other party must focus on cutting, we must unite around economic growth.
• Unite all tax payers, don’t divide them into “income” tax payers vs. “payroll” tax payers.
• Unite those wanting to eliminate deductions with those seeking lower rates.
• As a first step, unite the “Flat-Taxers” with the “Fair-Taxers”

Economic Growth is the Key

• This is the worst recovery since the Depression.
• If the President’s goal was to tie for last place with the previous worst recovery, he failed by 6 million jobs.
• If we had a typical recovery, 13 million more Americans would be employed today.
• That means more tax revenue, less government spending and 13 million less people opposed to reasonable spending cuts.
• The Super Committee must deliver a robust growth solution.
• America can’t wait for 2012, we need growth NOW

Phase 1 - 9-9-9

• Current circumstances call for bolder action.
• The Phase 1 Enhanced Plan incorporates the features of Phase One and gets us a step closer to Phase two.
• I call on the Super Committee to pass the Phase 1 Enhanced Plan along with their spending cut package.
• The Phase 1 Enhanced Plan unites Flat Tax supporters with Fair tax supporters.
• Achieves the broadest possible tax base along with the lowest possible rate of 9%.
• It ends the Payroll Tax completely – a permanent holiday!
• Zero capital gains tax
• Ends the Death Tax.
• Eliminates double taxation of dividends
• Business Flat Tax – 9%

+Gross income less all investments, all purchases from other businesses and all dividends paid to shareholders.
+Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for payroll employed in the zone.

• Individual Flat Tax – 9%.

+Gross income less charitable deductions.
+Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in the zone.

• National Sales Tax – 9%.

+This gets the Fair Tax off the sidelines and into the game.

Phase 2 – The Fair Tax

• Amidst a backdrop of the economic boom created by the Phase 1 Enhanced Plan, I will begin the process of educating the American people on the benefits of continuing the next step to the Fair Tax.
• The Fair Tax would ultimately replace individual and corporate income taxes.
• It would make it possible to end the IRS as we know it.
• The Fair Tax makes our exported goods and services the most competitively internationally than any other tax system.

Phase 1 Enhanced Plan – Summary

• Unites all tax payers so we all pay income taxes and no one pays payroll taxes
• Provides the least incentive to evade taxes and the fewest opportunities to do so
• Lifts a $430 billion dead-weight burden on the economy due to compliance, enforcement, collection, etc.
• Is fair, neutral, transparent, and efficient
• Ends nearly all deductions and special interest favors
• Ends all payroll taxes
• Ends the Death Tax
• Features zero tax on capital gains and repatriated profits
• Lowest marginal rates on production
• Allows immediate expensing of business investments
• Eliminates double taxation of dividends
• Increases capital formation. Capital per worker drives productivity and wage growth
• Capital formation will aid capital availability for small businesses
• Features a platform to launch properly structured Empowerment Zones to revitalize our inner cities
• We all know the Fed has tripled the money supply since 2008. They have been printing money out of thin air to finance the Obama spending machine. While true Fed reform that restores sound money may have to wait for my election, the best thing we can do now is to pursue policies that increase the DEMAND for dollars to help mitigate the risks associated with the increase in the supply.
• Pro-growth economic policies equal a strong dollar policy

Will someone who likes Herman Cain as a candidate please campaign for him here. Give it your best shot.

I'd like to hear more about his plans for the nation from someone who feels informed enough to be a good advocate.


Edit: p.s. What are the odds of Cain being able to get his plans through Congress? Assume the best information campaign possible, to convince the people, so they can convince their representatives. Will that be enough? Will Congress cooperate?

 

[peach174]

Utterly false.

Payroll taxes that companies have to pay for employees, those get passed on to the consumer, yes. Corporate taxes are taxes paid on profits. These are not passed on consumers because they are not a cost of doing business.

Payroll taxes are FICA and Cain's plan get rid of payroll taxes paid by the employee.

Payroll taxes must be withheld from an employee's paycheck. This is required by law. Employers must hand these withholdings over to various tax agencies. Payroll tax deductions include the following:

* Federal income tax withholding (based on withholding tables in Publication 15)
* Social Security tax withholding (6.2% up to the annual maximum)
* Medicare tax withholding (1.45%)
* State income tax withholding
* Various local tax withholdings (such as city, county, or school district taxes, state disability or unemployment insurance).
This is how Corp taxes works;
Corporate Welfare and Hidden Taxes
We the consumer pays for this.

Now you're mixing terms. We've been discussing the Corporate Tax Rate, which is a specific thing. To now claim ANY tax a corporation pays qualifies as this Corporate Tax is ludicrous and flat out incorrect.

Get your terms right. Cain wants to get rid of all payroll taxes and drop the corporate tax rate to 9%. That's what we're discussing.

Yes and I'm explaining to you how Corp taxes work;

Corporations need to make a profit to survive and if they don't make a profit they will go out of business. We can all understand this point. Profit is basically calculated as revenue less expenses. Corporations view taxes as a cost, or expense, of doing business, just the same as they view other expenses such as office supplies, rent, and payroll. As such, when a corporation determines what it is going to charge for its goods or services it includes all the various taxes in its calculation. This means that corporations pass along to their customers the cost of the taxes they remit . The corporation actually functions as a collection agent for the governmental agencies to which it reports.

This link explains how it works
Corporate Welfare and Hidden Taxes

 

[California Girl]

Will someone who likes Herman Cain as a candidate please campaign for him here. Give it your best shot.

I'd like to hear more about his plans for the nation from someone who feels informed enough to be a good advocate.





Edit: p.s. What are the odds of Cain being able to get his plans through Congress? Assume the best information campaign possible, to convince the people, so they can convince their representatives. Will that be enough? Will Congress cooperate?

Are you not capable of going to his website and finding out for yourself?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Yes. She is. But the desire to start a conversation about the 999 plan on a discussion board led her to phrase it the way she did. Give her a break.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I still like this plan even if I think cap gains should also be in the 9%.