What are basic human rights?

[Wonky Pundit]

Human rights (at least in this discussion) should be considered as completely separate from any nation's laws or anyone's legal rights.

For example, if you did something to another person or withheld something from them, would people believe that your actions are fundamentally wrong, regardless of what nation you're located in? If the answer is yes, that would be a violation of someone's basic human rights.

Here's something more literal: people have the right not to be attacked without provocation.

Obviously there are many more human rights. Which do you consider basic and why?

 

[midcan5]

Rights are impossible to assess once we proceed past certain obvious homilies. Of course we should not attack another without reason, but too often reason hasn't anything to do with behavior. Consider only the utopian idea that the enlightenment would bring forth the end of religious persecution and create a just society based on reason. Then read history. I don't have a lot of time right now, but I'll return, meanwhile I debated rights in link below and include FDR and the universal rights as points of interest.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean-debate-zone/239966-listening-to-paul-ryan.html

FDR's new bill of rights

'In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all regardless of station, race, or creed.'

Among these are:
The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the Nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.
All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

Read more: FDR?s Second Bill of Rights

The universal rights

'Preamble: Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world'

Human Rights 50th Anniversary / Universal Declaration

'All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.'

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights

 

[TakeAStepBack]

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the Nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.
All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

You do not have the right to someone elses services or their property.

Jeebus, you're about as bright as a burnt out lightbulb.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the Nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.
All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

You do not have the right to someone elses services or their property.

Jeebus, you're about as bright as a burnt out lightbulb.

FDR was as bright as a burnt out lightbulb?

So do you want to enlighten us about what basic human rights are?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Human rights (at least in this discussion) should be considered as completely separate from any nation's laws or anyone's legal rights.

For example, if you did something to another person or withheld something from them, would people believe that your actions are fundamentally wrong, regardless of what nation you're located in? If the answer is yes, that would be a violation of someone's basic human rights.

Here's something more literal: people have the right not to be attacked without provocation.

Obviously there are many more human rights. Which do you consider basic and why?

Your example is not a basic right because people have a right not to be attacked even if they provoke the attack.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Rights are impossible to assess once we proceed past certain obvious homilies. Of course we should not attack another without reason, but too often reason hasn't anything to do with behavior. Consider only the utopian idea that the enlightenment would bring forth the end of religious persecution and create a just society based on reason. Then read history. I don't have a lot of time right now, but I'll return, meanwhile I debated rights in link below and include FDR and the universal rights as points of interest.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean-debate-zone/239966-listening-to-paul-ryan.html

FDR's new bill of rights

'In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all regardless of station, race, or creed.'

Among these are:
The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the Nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.
All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

Read more: FDR?s Second Bill of Rights

The universal rights

'Preamble: Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world'

Human Rights 50th Anniversary / Universal Declaration

'All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.'

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights

I have some questions about the rights that you posted. Specifically, I want to know how these rights impose on you, personally.

Do they mean that you:

• have to give me a job if I ask you?
• oppose the farm bill that requires farmers to hand their crop over to the government?
• oppose the government not allowing private companies to compete with the Post Office?
• have to allow me to move into your house if I cannot afford a place to live?
• have to pay for my medical care if I cannot afford it even if all I want is cosmetic surgery?
• that you have to provide for me in my old age if I have never attempted to provide for my own old age? Perhaps you should be forced to provide in home palliative care for me under those circumstances.
• that you have to pay for me to take college classes that provide me no way to earn a living?

If you are not willing to allow me to impose on you directly in order to support these rights you really do not consider them rights, and shouldn't resort to posting drivel in order to attempt to appear smarter than you are.

 

[Sallow]

There are no "rights", inherently.

Your rights are defined by whatever government you live under..

 

[Skull Pilot]

There are no "rights", inherently.

Your rights are defined by whatever government you live under..

Our Government is based on unalienable rights inseparable from each person, so they do exist by your reasoning.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There are no "rights", inherently.

Your rights are defined by whatever government you live under..

Yet you supported Obama when he intervened in Libya on the basis of their rights being violated.

Interesting.

 

[TheOldSchool]

The only rights we deserve are the ones we demand and take for ourselves

 

[TakeAStepBack]

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the Nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.
All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

You do not have the right to someone elses services or their property.

Jeebus, you're about as bright as a burnt out lightbulb.

FDR was as bright as a burnt out lightbulb?

So do you want to enlighten us about what basic human rights are?

Yes, FDR was a central planning reject that fucked up far more than he ever "fixed".

Basic human rights.

The right to life free of coercion from others.
The right to pursue interests free from coercion.
The right to voluntary exchange without coercion.
The right to private property.

 

[Cookie]

I believe the OP is confusing morals with rights. He wrote: "people have the right not to be attacked without provocation." This is incorrect. It might be morally wrong to physically attack a person with or without provocation, and it might be against the law to do so, it isn't an assault on your inalienable rights. For instance, if I were to verbally attack you without provocation, it would be silly for you to go runny around saying "my inalienable rights were violated!"

To discern the difference, one should ask, "What has God's grace given me?"

God has given us:
#1 - Life. There is no guarantee to quality of life, just life.
#2 - Free will.

That's about it. Our inalienable rights consist not of what others might or might not do to us, but just what we have control over. The only person we have control over is ourselves.

What does the right to life mean? It means we have the right to be alive. This doesn't mean we have the right to medical care to keep us alive or to improve or maintain our quality of life.

What does free will mean? It means we have the right to pursue happiness (no guarantee we'll BE happy, though); we have the right to express ourselves; we have the right to practice a religion (or not); we have the right to be left alone (a right to privacy, to have our own stuff, to travel freely; to not be searched if we're not doing anything wrong, etc); we have a right to determine the destiny of our own lives within our own abilities (a doctor has a right to practice medicine; a business owner has a right to determine how they practice business even if they make an astounding profit or are so bad they fail). We have the right to the products of our own labor.

Now here is an important point that is often forgotten when people talk about inalienable rights. For every inalienable right, there is an associated responsibility or duty. For instance, I have a right to reproduce (have children). However, I have an associated duty to support those children. I have a right to express myself but I have an associated duty to convey accurate information so as to not interfere with someone else's rights (don't shout 'fire' in a crowded theater if there is no fire, don't slander others, etc). I have a right to privacy but if a police officer who is investigating criminal activity sees me sitting in a park where that crime occurred and asks me to identify myself, I have a duty to answer reasonable questions to further the investigation (or eliminate me as a suspect and/or witness).

While I don't have the right to NOT be attacked, I DO have the right to reasonably defend myself if I am attacked. Again, the right to defend myself is balanced by a duty to not exceed the offense. For instance, if someone verbally assaults me, I can verbally defend myself. I can't just up and shoot them.

The right to life has an associated responsibility to take care of myself to the best of my ability. In short, we have a duty to be good citizens.

There are all sorts of concepts that people say are inalienable rights but aren't simply because these "rights" depend on someone else doing something:
* I don't have a right to a job. Instead I have a right to not be discriminated against because of a personal factor that is beyond my control (i.e.: because I'm female or because I'm a different race.)
* I don't have a right to a place to live. Again, I have a right not to be discriminated against, though.
* I don't have a right to medical care or even access to medical care because that requires that someone else decides to become a doctor or open a hospital or - heaven forbid - pay my bill. If all the doctors in the world suddenly decided to not practice medicine, that is their right.

Hope that helps.

 

[boedicca]

Basic human rights all boil down to the same principle: the right to be left alone.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

There are no "rights", inherently.

Your rights are defined by whatever government you live under..

If that's true, why do people acknowledge that some governments practice "human rights violations" when, according to their own laws, the government is doing nothing illegal?

 

[Wonky Pundit]

I believe the OP is confusing morals with rights. He wrote: "people have the right not to be attacked without provocation." This is incorrect. It might be morally wrong to physically attack a person with or without provocation, and it might be against the law to do so, it isn't an assault on your inalienable rights. For instance, if I were to verbally attack you without provocation, it would be silly for you to go runny around saying "my inalienable rights were violated!"

To discern the difference, one should ask, "What has God's grace given me?"

God has given us:
#1 - Life. There is no guarantee to quality of life, just life.
#2 - Free will.

That's about it. Our inalienable rights consist not of what others might or might not do to us, but just what we have control over. The only person we have control over is ourselves.

What does the right to life mean? It means we have the right to be alive. This doesn't mean we have the right to medical care to keep us alive or to improve or maintain our quality of life.

What does free will mean? It means we have the right to pursue happiness (no guarantee we'll BE happy, though); we have the right to express ourselves; we have the right to practice a religion (or not); we have the right to be left alone (a right to privacy, to have our own stuff, to travel freely; to not be searched if we're not doing anything wrong, etc); we have a right to determine the destiny of our own lives within our own abilities (a doctor has a right to practice medicine; a business owner has a right to determine how they practice business even if they make an astounding profit or are so bad they fail). We have the right to the products of our own labor.

Now here is an important point that is often forgotten when people talk about inalienable rights. For every inalienable right, there is an associated responsibility or duty. For instance, I have a right to reproduce (have children). However, I have an associated duty to support those children. I have a right to express myself but I have an associated duty to convey accurate information so as to not interfere with someone else's rights (don't shout 'fire' in a crowded theater if there is no fire, don't slander others, etc). I have a right to privacy but if a police officer who is investigating criminal activity sees me sitting in a park where that crime occurred and asks me to identify myself, I have a duty to answer reasonable questions to further the investigation (or eliminate me as a suspect and/or witness).

While I don't have the right to NOT be attacked, I DO have the right to reasonably defend myself if I am attacked. Again, the right to defend myself is balanced by a duty to not exceed the offense. For instance, if someone verbally assaults me, I can verbally defend myself. I can't just up and shoot them.

The right to life has an associated responsibility to take care of myself to the best of my ability. In short, we have a duty to be good citizens.

There are all sorts of concepts that people say are inalienable rights but aren't simply because these "rights" depend on someone else doing something:
* I don't have a right to a job. Instead I have a right to not be discriminated against because of a personal factor that is beyond my control (i.e.: because I'm female or because I'm a different race.)
* I don't have a right to a place to live. Again, I have a right not to be discriminated against, though.
* I don't have a right to medical care or even access to medical care because that requires that someone else decides to become a doctor or open a hospital or - heaven forbid - pay my bill. If all the doctors in the world suddenly decided to not practice medicine, that is their right.

Hope that helps.

So why have people (in many countries) interpreted rights along the philosophy of "Your right to wave your fist around ends where my face begins?"

 

[Wonky Pundit]

Human rights (at least in this discussion) should be considered as completely separate from any nation's laws or anyone's legal rights.

For example, if you did something to another person or withheld something from them, would people believe that your actions are fundamentally wrong, regardless of what nation you're located in? If the answer is yes, that would be a violation of someone's basic human rights.

Here's something more literal: people have the right not to be attacked without provocation.

Obviously there are many more human rights. Which do you consider basic and why?

Your example is not a basic right because people have a right not to be attacked even if they provoke the attack.

Possibly, but what are you basing that assertion on?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Humans have no "rights" unless they fight for them, pass laws to guarantee them and abide by those laws.

No human is born with any right unless the humans that came before them fought for those rights.

 

[dblack]

Basic human rights all boil down to the same principle: the right to be left alone.

Indeed. The converse, the 'right' to interfere with others, is what characterizes the bulk of what midcan listed as "FDR's new bill of rights". These kinds of 'rights' are a fundamental perversion of the idea of rights. They are the claim of the bully who would cite his own needs and desires as justification for inflicting violence on others.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Basic human rights all boil down to the same principle: the right to be left alone.

Indeed. The converse, the 'right' to interfere with others, is what characterizes the bulk of what midcan listed as "FDR's new bill of rights". These kinds of 'rights' are a fundamental perversion of the idea of rights. They are the claim of the bully who would cite his own needs and desires as justification for inflicting violence on others.

Well said.

 

[boedicca]

Basic human rights all boil down to the same principle: the right to be left alone.

Indeed. The converse, the 'right' to interfere with others, is what characterizes the bulk of what midcan listed as "FDR's new bill of rights". These kinds of 'rights' are a fundamental perversion of the idea of rights. They are the claim of the bully who would cite his own needs and desires as justification for inflicting violence on others.

Needs are not Rights.