What about the Proposed Jobs Bill do Repubs not like?

[Samson]

Cantor is unfortunately whistling in the wind on that one. Obama could no more act in a bipartisan manner and quit demonizing the GOP than he could sprout wings and fly to the moon.

True. I wonder how much support he'll give to any element of the Republican alternative

Senate Republicans, having rejected President Barack Obama's jobs bill, offered a sweeping and largely repackaged plan of their own on Thursday

Their "Jobs Through Growth Act" features a fresh call for tax reform and cuts as well as a number of components previously proposed, but stalled in the Democratic-led Senate.

They include steps to: require a balanced budget; repeal Obama's overhaul of the U.S. healthcare system; lift prohibitions on offshore energy exploration and promote U.S. trade.

Well I think it is a given that the media and the WH - and the Senate...will frame this as heartless, uncaring and all around un-American bill not worth looking at.

Indeed...and it will not be a difficult sell.

Why are Repubs so consistantly ignorant? A modest tax increase on +$1 million income earners would allow them to claim the high ground that Obama wants to hold.

 

[thereisnospoon]

it includes a tax cut for low- and middle-income folks, and it includes a tax cut for small businesses.

These are, of course, completely unacceptable until a Republican takes office.

In theory it does. But when the business people and job creators get their bill, they add it to the cost of goods and services. Obama knows this.
His so called tax on the wealthy is simply a stealth tax increase on all of us.

 

[8537]

COme on 8537...you dont fall for that rhetoric...do you?

Only partly! We're having fun here, Jarhead.

The GOP appreciates those tax cuts....but they are useless if you take from the small businesses with other things...such as regulatioons that are unecessary.

No, I would say they are helpful regardless of any other changes that might offset them. The regulations etc....exist regardless of whether the payroll tax is cut, so businesses are made better off by the tax cut.

yes...made better off....but that does not mean "able to expand".....putting a little more money in the pocket of the business owner is not what will prompt them to expand.

I agree! Finding customers who can willingly afford to purchase their product will prompt them to expand.

Allowing the business owner the comfort of knowing that new regulations will not be levied on him will most certainly allow him to plan his future....It is not a cash issue for the business owners nearly as much as it is the inability to properly forecast.

But the uncertainty right now is because they can't project where the macro economy will be in a year, two years etc....And Obama isn't in charge of that. Until there is some consensus on the macro side firms will continue to be timid (though things seem a bit improved as of late).

Remember...we are looking to create jobs....not put a little more money in the pockets of the owners of companies

Indeed!

 

[Jarhead]

it includes a tax cut for low- and middle-income folks, and it includes a tax cut for small businesses.

These are, of course, completely unacceptable until a Republican takes office.

Tax cuts today only to pass the buck to someone else that has the balls to cut spending and raise taxes if needed later.

Are you opposed to tax cuts?

I am.

Tax cuts will not help matters. Consumers are scared. They will save whatever cuts they get. Business owners are scared. They , too, will save whatever they get.

Congress needs to get off their ideological standings and and meet with a variety of business owners that have shown growth in the past and not now and ask them what is holding them back.

And not a few "cherry picked" business owners. Congress should spend their time and our money and get out there and talk to business owners.

I can tell you that my indusrty isnt expanding at all....and the prinary reason is healthcare......Temp agencies compete with each other with their benefits progrmas for the temps...some offer none, some offer small plans...other larger....etc.

Right now....none of know what our healthcare costs will be. Some of us have over 1000 temps on our payroll....and each temp generates a small profit...and that could be eliminated with healthcare.....

 

[WillowTree]

it includes a tax cut for low- and middle-income folks, and it includes a tax cut for small businesses.

These are, of course, completely unacceptable until a Republican takes office.

You know what? Tax cut on payroll and ss is fine but can't you see that down the road SS is going to be in even worse straits than it is now cause the payments into it are being deferred by these "tax cuts"..

sure, that's true of any cut. it just so happens that a payroll tax cut is the most efficient way to reach the broadest segment of the population, plus it aids employers.

The best aid you could do for employers is to rescind obama's health care debacle. give EVERYONE a WAIVER

 

[Jarhead]

when you have the house to your left in foreclosure, the man across the street unemployed, the family next door doing a short sale, the store on the corner going out of business...

And all of a sudden you have a tax cut and another 48 bucks a week in your paycheck?

You save it.

 

[Jarhead]

You know what? Tax cut on payroll and ss is fine but can't you see that down the road SS is going to be in even worse straits than it is now cause the payments into it are being deferred by these "tax cuts"..

sure, that's true of any cut. it just so happens that a payroll tax cut is the most efficient way to reach the broadest segment of the population, plus it aids employers.

The best aid you could do for employers is to rescind obama's health care debacle. give EVERYONE a WAIVER

People rationalized those waivers as only being for a year or two so companies can determine what they need to do...

Well....if they need a year or two waiver to see what they need to do.....why wouldnt everyone need that year or two?

 

[8537]

Tax cuts today only to pass the buck to someone else that has the balls to cut spending and raise taxes if needed later.

Are you opposed to tax cuts?

I am.

Tax cuts will not help matters. Consumers are scared. They will save whatever cuts they get. Business owners are scared. They , too, will save whatever they get.

I agree with ya here. I don't know if I'd like to them allow the payroll tax cut to expire, but further cuts make no sense right now.

Congress needs to get off their ideological standings and and meet with a variety of business owners that have shown growth in the past and not now and ask them what is holding them back.

And not a few "cherry picked" business owners. Congress should spend their time and our money and get out there and talk to business owners.

I'll dig it up when I have some time, but there's a great national survey that polls pretty much this exact question monthly - I can't recall the details.

I can tell you that my indusrty isnt expanding at all....and the prinary reason is healthcare......Temp agencies compete with each other with their benefits progrmas for the temps...some offer none, some offer small plans...other larger....etc.

Right now....none of know what our healthcare costs will be. Some of us have over 1000 temps on our payroll....and each temp generates a small profit...and that could be eliminated with healthcare.....

This part I don't understand. In my office, we figured out the cost burden and savings from the health care reform bill, year by year as signed into law, in the course of a single 60-minute conversation with a HC consultant. It's really not complicated. There are some range estimates that are pretty broad, but no more so than any other projections.

If there's uncertainty around the bill at this point, it's simply because people think the Republicans will repeal it. That uncertainty could disappear easily...

 

[BlindBoo]

I'm just wondering what the objections are to the dems proposed Jobs bill? It's deficit neutral and seems to be designed to make an impact immediately.

Jobs Bill Overview

So, I was wondering which parts, specifically, those who are against it have the biggest issue with.

You should ask the Democrats in the Senate since they are the ones holding it up. Actually I think it was voted down. Mainly by Democrats btw.

How about, it is a repetition of policies that have already failed to improve employment and have caused the downgrade of thsi country's debt and massive deficits?

Neg rep for your stupid pointless and inflammatory avatar.

Actually every single Republican voted against debating the bill while almost all Democrats vote to debate it. It will now be taken up peicemeal.

Futhermore, how far up would the unemployement gone had we not had the stimulus, we'll never know. However it was the political theater brought about in an unnecessary confrontation on the debt ceiling that caused the downgrading of our credit rating. The President faced a massive debt when taking office and he did add to it, but hardly caused it. Lets see, President Bush nearly doubled the debt. Where were all the whiners then? You gonna give President Obama the same laditude? I'm not, he needs to cut the debt.

 

[The Rabbi]

it includes a tax cut for low- and middle-income folks, and it includes a tax cut for small businesses.

These are, of course, completely unacceptable until a Republican takes office.

It includes a TEMPORARY tax cut for both things, an idea that never works, no matter who is in office. You of course cannot comprehend the difference.

 

[Claudette]

I'm just wondering what the objections are to the dems proposed Jobs bill? It's deficit neutral and seems to be designed to make an impact immediately.

Jobs Bill Overview

So, I was wondering which parts, specifically, those who are against it have the biggest issue with.

Adding nearly 500 billion dollars to the federal budget is not revenue neutral.
Nevertheless. Government cannot magically create employment in the private sector by simply throwing ( which the government does not have to spend) at the issue.
Just as with stimulus one and two, Obama's plan will go to fund union jobs and government services which in the past simply delayed the inevitable layoffs of public workers.
The main problem is Obama refuses to accept spending cuts if he does not get tax increases. Many democrats are balking and even flat out refusing to vote for a tax increase when they know their jobs are on the line. Obama however is conveniently ignoring that fact. Yesterday and today, Obama is campaigning, using TAXPAYER DOLLARS, across North Carolina pitching his jobs bill and blaming ONLY republicans for it's lack of support. This guy thinks we are all stupid.
These and other reasons are causing the bill to be broken up into pieces for further legislative examination.
Bottom line, this bill goes nowhere because government cannot create private sector jobs by spending gobs of money.
The Obama regime should cut it's losses.

Thats just it. Barry thinks his way is right. It has never worked in the past and won't work now but I doubt anyone will ever convice him of this.

We can only hope that the next POTUS does have the right ideas and can fix the mess.

 

[Avorysuds]

Are you opposed to tax cuts?

I am.

Tax cuts will not help matters. Consumers are scared. They will save whatever cuts they get. Business owners are scared. They , too, will save whatever they get.

I agree with ya here. I don't know if I'd like to them allow the payroll tax cut to expire, but further cuts make no sense right now.

Congress needs to get off their ideological standings and and meet with a variety of business owners that have shown growth in the past and not now and ask them what is holding them back.

And not a few "cherry picked" business owners. Congress should spend their time and our money and get out there and talk to business owners.

I'll dig it up when I have some time, but there's a great national survey that polls pretty much this exact question monthly - I can't recall the details.

I can tell you that my indusrty isnt expanding at all....and the prinary reason is healthcare......Temp agencies compete with each other with their benefits progrmas for the temps...some offer none, some offer small plans...other larger....etc.

Right now....none of know what our healthcare costs will be. Some of us have over 1000 temps on our payroll....and each temp generates a small profit...and that could be eliminated with healthcare.....

This part I don't understand. In my office, we figured out the cost burden and savings from the health care reform bill, year by year as signed into law, in the course of a single 60-minute conversation with a HC consultant. It's really not complicated. There are some range estimates that are pretty broad, but no more so than any other projections.

If there's uncertainty around the bill at this point, it's simply because people think the Republicans will repeal it. That uncertainty could disappear easily...

I'm looking to open a Gym and it might be happening here in the next month or so, the first thing I did was figure how I cannot have any employees because of costs and unknown future costs. This means I will be working 10-12 hours a day with a keycode on the door. Having someone come in just to tell me what my future costs might be repeatedly is not an option for me at this point. Doing that multiple times costs money, money me and millions of others can’t afford to spend.

I almost can’t believe you just tried to dump Obama’s horrid HC bill on republicans as to why there is uncertainty… You do realize Obama’s bill does not take full effect until like 2014 right? Meaning for years it will be an evolving uncertain process…

Oh and didn’t Obama just do away with part of Obamacare because it wouldn’t work? And of course it being unconstitutional and all…

 

[The Rabbi]

I'm just wondering what the objections are to the dems proposed Jobs bill? It's deficit neutral and seems to be designed to make an impact immediately.

Jobs Bill Overview

So, I was wondering which parts, specifically, those who are against it have the biggest issue with.

You should ask the Democrats in the Senate since they are the ones holding it up. Actually I think it was voted down. Mainly by Democrats btw.

How about, it is a repetition of policies that have already failed to improve employment and have caused the downgrade of thsi country's debt and massive deficits?

Neg rep for your stupid pointless and inflammatory avatar.

Futhermore, how far up would the unemployement gone had we not had the stimulus, we'll never know.

This is the response always to failed policies: Well, it sucks but things would ahve been MUCH worse if we hadn't done it.
It is bullshit.
The policy was a failure. We have had lower unemployment had we not passed the stimulus. This was known at the time and has been confirmed since.

 

[Jarhead]

Are you opposed to tax cuts?

I am.

Tax cuts will not help matters. Consumers are scared. They will save whatever cuts they get. Business owners are scared. They , too, will save whatever they get.

I agree with ya here. I don't know if I'd like to them allow the payroll tax cut to expire, but further cuts make no sense right now.

Congress needs to get off their ideological standings and and meet with a variety of business owners that have shown growth in the past and not now and ask them what is holding them back.

And not a few "cherry picked" business owners. Congress should spend their time and our money and get out there and talk to business owners.

I'll dig it up when I have some time, but there's a great national survey that polls pretty much this exact question monthly - I can't recall the details.

I can tell you that my indusrty isnt expanding at all....and the prinary reason is healthcare......Temp agencies compete with each other with their benefits progrmas for the temps...some offer none, some offer small plans...other larger....etc.

Right now....none of know what our healthcare costs will be. Some of us have over 1000 temps on our payroll....and each temp generates a small profit...and that could be eliminated with healthcare.....

This part I don't understand. In my office, we figured out the cost burden and savings from the health care reform bill, year by year as signed into law, in the course of a single 60-minute conversation with a HC consultant. It's really not complicated. There are some range estimates that are pretty broad, but no more so than any other projections.

If there's uncertainty around the bill at this point, it's simply because people think the Republicans will repeal it. That uncertainty could disappear easily...

either your HC consultant wasnt honest with you or perhaps you are not aware of what the uncertainty is...

Some companies will have no increase and others will have dramatic increases.

Problem is, until 2013, no one knows who the winners and losers will be.

You see..there are many employees who opt out and go on their spouses plans as they are better or more cost effective.

With the new law, likely all employers will trend to simple plans and spouses plans will not necearrily be the one to go on. Maybe the other spouse is a better plan...or maybe it is cost effective for each spouse to have their own SINGLE plan.

Add in the unknown number of younegr employees that currently opted out becuase they feel they are immortal will either go on their parents plan if it is cost effective OR opt in to the company plan....

And so you see...it is employers really dont kow how many they will be covering......and wont know until the plan kicks in and people start analyzing what is in their best fiancnial interest.

It is not an issue of cost per employee...the left seems to want to make it that such is what the business owners are concerend about. It is not and never was.

IT IS AN ISSUE OF HOW MANY OF THOSE THEY DONT INSURE NOW, WILL THEY HAVE TO INSURE COME 2013.

And for a company of 200...to all of a sudden have to insure 40 more...that can be a deciding factor of staying in business.

So to risk expanding now without knowing how the human factor comes into play with the healthcare law is...well......irresponsible.

 

[Sallow]

Thats just it. Barry thinks his way is right. It has never worked in the past and won't work now but I doubt anyone will ever convice him of this.

We can only hope that the next POTUS does have the right ideas and can fix the mess.

Of course it's worked in the past, and resoundingly well. FDR's public work projects yielded benefits we still see today. Roads, bridges, dams as well as getting rural areas on to the electric grid has been the foundation for American prosperity and creation of the middle class. Eisenhower building even more roads again yielded multiple benefits. Clinton upgrading the telecommunications infrastructure exploded employment.

But lets look at the private sector. Really? What has apple done? They have created some really spiffy electronic devices and now employ more people abroad then they do here.

Did Apple’s iPod Create U.S. Jobs? - The Curious Capitalist - TIME.com

Compare that with a private/public project like the creation of UNIX and the Internet. Multiple firms benefitted from that..and it yielded high paying jobs for Americans.

 

[Sallow]

You should ask the Democrats in the Senate since they are the ones holding it up. Actually I think it was voted down. Mainly by Democrats btw.

How about, it is a repetition of policies that have already failed to improve employment and have caused the downgrade of thsi country's debt and massive deficits?

Neg rep for your stupid pointless and inflammatory avatar.

Futhermore, how far up would the unemployement gone had we not had the stimulus, we'll never know.

This is the response always to failed policies: Well, it sucks but things would ahve been MUCH worse if we hadn't done it.
It is bullshit.
The policy was a failure. We have had lower unemployment had we not passed the stimulus. This was known at the time and has been confirmed since.

Completely and utterly incorrect. This is not based in reality at all.

 

[BlindBoo]

You should ask the Democrats in the Senate since they are the ones holding it up. Actually I think it was voted down. Mainly by Democrats btw.

How about, it is a repetition of policies that have already failed to improve employment and have caused the downgrade of thsi country's debt and massive deficits?

Neg rep for your stupid pointless and inflammatory avatar.

Futhermore, how far up would the unemployement gone had we not had the stimulus, we'll never know.

This is the response always to failed policies: Well, it sucks but things would ahve been MUCH worse if we hadn't done it.
It is bullshit.
The policy was a failure. We have had lower unemployment had we not passed the stimulus. This was known at the time and has been confirmed since.

I noticed you didn't address the rebuttal to your original lie that it was the Democrats holding up the bill, and latched on to something that is subjective so you can denigrate it. But you are of course wrong there too.

It's Official: Obama Is Creaming Bush When It Comes To Jobs - Business Insider

I can only hope the Republican gamble to do anything to stop the President, give him a Waterloo moment so to speak, from getting re-elected fails and the voter turn the house back over to the Democrats.

 

[Jarhead]

Futhermore, how far up would the unemployement gone had we not had the stimulus, we'll never know.

This is the response always to failed policies: Well, it sucks but things would ahve been MUCH worse if we hadn't done it.
It is bullshit.
The policy was a failure. We have had lower unemployment had we not passed the stimulus. This was known at the time and has been confirmed since.

Completely and utterly incorrect. This is not based in reality at all.

what is correct is the stimulus did not do what it was supposed to do. Help with the unemployment numbers. Many on the right siad it wouldnt, and all on the left said it would.

Now...sure, you can sugar coat/rationalize it by saying one of the following:

1) imagine how bad the numbers would be without it
2) the economy was worse than we realized
3) unemployment has gone down....just not by as much as you want

However, the bottom line is unemployment is still at 9.1% and there is no releif in sight. This was not what the stimulus plan projected.

Therefore, it is silly to continually say it wasnt a failure.

If something only does a little of what yopu expect it to do, it is a failure.

If a car engine is touted and marketed as one that can reach speeds of 140 MPH but it tops out at 90 MPH....it is a failure.

 

[8537]

I am.

Tax cuts will not help matters. Consumers are scared. They will save whatever cuts they get. Business owners are scared. They , too, will save whatever they get.

I agree with ya here. I don't know if I'd like to them allow the payroll tax cut to expire, but further cuts make no sense right now.



I'll dig it up when I have some time, but there's a great national survey that polls pretty much this exact question monthly - I can't recall the details.

I can tell you that my indusrty isnt expanding at all....and the prinary reason is healthcare......Temp agencies compete with each other with their benefits progrmas for the temps...some offer none, some offer small plans...other larger....etc.

Right now....none of know what our healthcare costs will be. Some of us have over 1000 temps on our payroll....and each temp generates a small profit...and that could be eliminated with healthcare.....

This part I don't understand. In my office, we figured out the cost burden and savings from the health care reform bill, year by year as signed into law, in the course of a single 60-minute conversation with a HC consultant. It's really not complicated. There are some range estimates that are pretty broad, but no more so than any other projections.

If there's uncertainty around the bill at this point, it's simply because people think the Republicans will repeal it. That uncertainty could disappear easily...

either your HC consultant wasnt honest with you or perhaps you are not aware of what the uncertainty is...

Some companies will have no increase and others will have dramatic increases.

Problem is, until 2013, no one knows who the winners and losers will be.

You see..there are many employees who opt out and go on their spouses plans as they are better or more cost effective.

With the new law, likely all employers will trend to simple plans and spouses plans will not necearrily be the one to go on. Maybe the other spouse is a better plan...or maybe it is cost effective for each spouse to have their own SINGLE plan.

Again, those numbers can be estimated. Attempting to predict how people will behave in response to the law really, really isn't that difficult. We have decades of experience observing how people respond to various economic incentives and this one is no different. We can't predict what each individual might do, but we can certainly create a fairly reliable estimate of the aggregate response. In our firm's case, we paid a HC consultant to do the numbers.

IT IS AN ISSUE OF HOW MANY OF THOSE THEY DONT INSURE NOW, WILL THEY HAVE TO INSURE COME 2013.

There's an app for that....

So to risk expanding now without knowing how the human factor comes into play with the healthcare law is...well......irresponsible.

I don't know. I work with a good number of firms who are in a holding pattern at the moment - but that's demand driven in most cases, not regulatory.

 

[8537]

I'm looking to open a Gym and it might be happening here in the next month or so,

Congratulations! That's great shit. Best of luck with it.

the first thing I did was figure how I cannot have any employees because of costs and unknown future costs. This means I will be working 10-12 hours a day with a keycode on the door. Having someone come in just to tell me what my future costs might be repeatedly is not an option for me at this point. Doing that multiple times costs money, money me and millions of others can’t afford to spend.

So in this new endeavor you can't afford employees at first and you'll be putting in a lot of hours? This makes you just like every other start up small business owner.

I almost can’t believe you just tried to dump Obama’s horrid HC bill on republicans as to why there is uncertainty… You do realize Obama’s bill does not take full effect until like 2014 right? Meaning for years it will be an evolving uncertain process…

No, it's not "evolving and uncertain". The whole law is written. The regs are coming down the pipeline. Firms can get pretty clear estimates of costs for a small stipend to a consultant. Like anything else, YRMV.