What about Palestine?

[freeandfun1]

Historically - there is no Palestine ... No Palestinian people ... language ... culture ... religion ... economy etc! Yet we see claims of descent from a "Palestinian people" who supposedly lived in a land called "Palestine" for thousands of years.

That land was the Land of Canaan, inhabited by Canaanites.
" ... the Canaanites dwell by the sea, and by the coast of Jordan." Numbers 13:29
(See Also: Genesis 12:5 ... Genesis 13:12 ... Exodous 13:11 etc. )

This same land later became the land of Israel. When God gave it to His Chosen People.

"And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."Genesis 17:8 (KJV)

"Command the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land of Canaan; (this is the land that shall fall unto you for an inheritance, even the land of Canaan with the coasts thereof" Numbers 34:2 (KJV) .

Other Scripture referances were cited earlier on this page concerning "the Promised Land" given to Israel by God. So we will not repeat those here. You can also read about the children of Israel coming into the PROMISED LAND (First Canaan - Then Israel) througout the Book of Joshua.

So what is Palestine? ... The name Palestine comes from the "Philistines" (Ancient Israel's enemies!)

The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never Land. The first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury. They also tried to change the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying power. Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland. ( Joseph Farah, Arab-American Editor and Journalist, WorldNetDaily 10/11/00 ... Myths of the Middle East)

How Did the Land of Israel Become "Palestine"? ... In the First Century CE, the Romans crushed the independent kingdom of Judea. After the failed rebellion of Bar Kokhba in the Second Century CE, the Roman Emperor Hadrian determined to wipe out the identity of Israel-Judah-Judea. Therefore, he took the name Palastina and imposed it on all the Land of Israel. At the same time, he changed the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina. The Romans killed many Jews and sold many more in slavery. Some of those who survived still alive and free left the devastated country, but there was never a complete abandonment of the Land. There was never a time when there were not Jews and Jewish communities, though the size and conditions of those communities fluctuated greatly. (Tzemach News Service - The History and Meaning of "Palestine" and "Palestinians")

From that time those living in the land - now being dubbed "Palestine" were called "Palestinians".
Including the Jews! (During WWII the British Army had a Palestinian Brigade made up of entirely Jewish volunteers ... The Palestinian Symphony Orchastra was all Jewish ... The Palestinian Post had been a Jewish newspaper!)

But in 1948 - when "Palestine" became Israel again - the Arabs who fled began to claim that they were the "True Palestinians" and that this land had always belonged to them! When in actuality in 1948 the Arabs owned about 3% of so-called Palestine. Those who now claim to be "Palestinians" are Arabs by birth, language, Islamic religion and culture.

Israel's claim to the land goes back over 4000 years to Abraham's purchase of the cave of Machpelah (See: Genesis Chapter 23 ) There Abraham buried his wife Sarah. And Abraham, Issac, Rebeccah, Jacob and Leah are also buried there.

"Indisputably, the land of Israel ("from the river of Egypt unto the great river... Euphrates" - Gn 15:18-21) was given to the Jews forever. God declared, "The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine..." (Lv 25:23). In blatant disobedience, Israel's leaders have been trading land for "peace" with Arafat, who has sworn to exterminate Israel. Israel has abandoned the biblical conviction expressed by her first premier, David Ben Gurion:

Our right to this Land in its entirety is steadfast, inalienable and eternal....This right...cannot be forfeited under any circumstance...[Israelis] have neither the power nor the jurisdiction to negate it for future generations to come....And until the coming of the Great Redemption, we shall never yield this historic right.

To further make certain that all mankind understands that the Jews are God's chosen people, the word "Israel" dominates the Bible, appearing 2,565 times in 2,293 verses. In contrast, Arabians are mentioned only ten times.

 

[dilloduck]

After looking at various alternatives, the UN proposed the partitioning of Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish, with Jerusalem internationalized (Resolution 181 (II) of 1947). One of the two States envisaged in the partition plan proclaimed its independence as Israel and in the 1948 war expanded to occupy 77 per cent of the territory of Palestine. Israel also occupied the larger part of Jerusalem. Over half the indigenous Palestinian population fled or were expelled. Jordan and Egypt occupied the other parts of the territory assigned by the partition resolution to the Palestinian Arab State which did not come into being.

In the 1967 war, Israel occupied the remaining territory of Palestine, until then under Jordanian and Egyptian control (the West Bank and Gaza Strip). This included the remaining part of Jerusalem, which was subsequently annexed by Israel. The war brought about a second exodus of Palestinians, estimated at half a million. Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 called on Israel to withdraw from territories it had occupied in the 1967 conflict.

In 1974, the General Assembly reaffirmed the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, national independence and sovereignty, and to return. The following year, the General Assembly established the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People. The General Assembly conferred on the PLO the status of observer in the Assembly and in other international conferences held under United Nations auspices.

 

[freeandfun1]

The point is, the Palestinians claim they were there first, when there is no way that they were.

I know what the UN did and I know that the Palestinians decided not to accept it.

 

[dilloduck]

Who expelled the Palestinians in '48 and why did the rest feel as if they had to flee territories given to them by the UN?

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Who expelled the Palestinians in '48 and why did the rest feel as if they had to flee territories given to them by the UN?

IN 1948 the Palestinians rejected the UN offer and never formed their Palestinian State. They, along with the surrounding Arab countries, instead declared war on the new Israeli State. Israel is the only one that followed the mandate of the UN at the time.

Nobody expelled he Palestinians from the land they were given. If they left, they left on their own. I believe they did so just so they could turn around and say they were expelled. Frankly, there were not that many "Palestinians" in Palestine at the time. They mostly lived in Jordan as that is where the work was.

 

[dilloduck]

The British government published a new White Paper restricting Jewish immigration and offering independence for Palestine within ten years. This was rejected by the Zionists, who then organized terrorist groups and launched a bloody campaign against the British and the Palestinians. The aim was to drive them both out of Palestine and to pave the way for the establishment of the Zionist state.

Seems as if the Zionist movement didnt like the deal and began fighting. As for "Palestininans" it's just a matter of semantics. They were Arabs who were living in Palestine who now have no homeland due to the Arab and Zionist dispute.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by dilloduck
The British government published a new White Paper restricting Jewish immigration and offering independence for Palestine within ten years. This was rejected by the Zionists, who then organized terrorist groups and launched a bloody campaign against the British and the Palestinians. The aim was to drive them both out of Palestine and to pave the way for the establishment of the Zionist state.

Seems as if the Zionist movement didnt like the deal and began fighting. As for "Palestininans" it's just a matter of semantics. They were Arabs who were living in Palestine who now have no homeland due to the Arab and Zionist dispute.

When was this British White Paper? I am talking about 1948. You are going back before then. Read the thread "clueless" and you will see.

But you are right in including the Arabs in stating why the Palestinians have no homeland. They could have in 1948 if they would have followed the UN mandate.

 

[dilloduck]

Immediatley prior to WW11 by the Peel Commission. Seems what started out as a negotiation turned into war. Israel wasn't completely innocent here either. They were attacking Arabs in Palestine before war "officially' broke out. Now we have 2 Semitic tribes with financial allies duking it out over religion. What a mess.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by dilloduck

Immediatley prior to WW11 by the Peel Commission. Seems what started out as a negotiation turned into war. Israel wasn't completely innocent here either. They were attacking Arabs in Palestine before war "officially' broke out. Now we have 2 Semitic tribes with financial allies duking it out over religion. What a mess.

What mess do you refer to? The country now known as Israel has been a possession of the Hebrew people for more than 3,000 years. The Jews have been attacked by many nations like the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Romans and others but there was always a presence of the Hebrew people in this little strip of land.

The fact that the UN tried to divide an established country by mandate has zero validity. What effect would a UN mandate that the United States was to be divided along the Mississippi river with all the land west of the river to belong to the indigenous American Indians? Would President Bush yield to the UN resolution?

By International Law, any country that is attacked by its neighbors or any foreign country and wins its own land back is entitled to keep its land until a stronger country can take it away by war and not be edict. European country's borders are now fixed but have changed many times in the past eons by wars of acquisition and not by contract or resolutions by any world bodies.

Israel was not guilty by any measure as it did not indiscriminately attack Arabs but did only so to protect themselves from attack. The Arabs (Palestinians) admit that they do not desire the land of Israel as a possession for themselves. They simply and honestly state that all the land of the world is holy to them and that all the people of the world must convert to Islam or be destroyed.

It isn't complicated.......

 

[freeandfun1]

exactamundo!

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by dilloduck

Who expelled the Palestinians in '48 and why did the rest feel as if they had to flee territories given to them by the UN?

You really don't know do you? Do you really think that the Israelis expelled or chased the Arabs (no Palestinians at that time) out of Israel?

Recorded:

The Arab armies were set to attack the now partitioned State of Israel from the border lands except from the Mediterranian Sea. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem sent out a call to all the Arabs who had been living in Israel at that time to quickly leave the area without their possessions. They did not want their brother Muslims to be killed in the crossfire when the Arabs sent in their armies, tanks and planes to kill the Jews.

The Arabs complied and left the land to be cleansed of all Jews by the powerful Arab armies surrounding Israel. But things did not work out well for the Arab armies, for some strange reason they became confused and frightened when fired at by the rifles of the ragged refuse from the Nazi concentration camps.

When it was over the Jewish people had won their own land from five large invading armies and the Arab inhabitants were no longer in Israel as they had been isntructed by their brothers. They were placed into refugee camps in the surrounding countries instead of being absorbed into their populations. Their own brother Arabs abandoned them to a life of poverty and degradation. All to be used as pawns in the ongoing struggle against the fledling land of Israel.

You really believe that crap the Arabs have spewed forth from their propaganda machines and money, dont you?

 

[menewa]

Who cares about the word origin of Palestine. The core of this argument is that families who've lived in the region for generations have been uprooted and are being systematically eradicated.
The situation of the Palestinians is very similar to that of the American Indians. They've been pushed into filthy little slums and subtracted of their voices.
Since freeandfun seems so content in giving back the ancient land of Israel to Jews, are you also prepared to give up back all of the Americas to its original people. They believed this land was their gift from a higher power as well.
While I abhor the actions of the suicide bombers, I also abhor the mechanical destruction of a people and their homes as well.
I wish the Palestinians would utilize the non-violent techniques of Ghandi and Martin.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by menewa

Who cares about the word origin of Palestine. The core of this argument is that families who've lived in the region for generations have been uprooted and are being systematically eradicated.

The people who lived in the area of Israel for some generations now live in a country called Israel. The American indians lived in the country called the USA for centuries but they were systematically killed off and 'civlized.'

Israel exists and owns the country as we speak. Old claims of ownership are no longer valid. The Arabs systematically kill off themselves by attacking the owners of the land of Israel.

The situation of the Palestinians is very similar to that of the American Indians. They've been pushed into filthy little slums and subtracted of their voices.

Were the American indians pushed into slums by their own fellow indians in order to kill the white man from ambush?

Since freeandfun seems so content in giving back the ancient land of Israel to Jews, are you also prepared to give up back all of the Americas to its original people. They believed this land was their gift from a higher power as well.

The indians can have their land back if they want to go to war with the USA and take it in battle. That is what the Arabs will have to do if they want the land of the Jewish people.

You abhor yourself and your envy.

 

[menewa]

You abhor yourself and your envy. [/B][/QUOTE]

Huh?

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by menewa

You abhor yourself and your envy.

Huh?

Yeh you got it. Your self hate for the victim and your love for the terrorist murderers is very revealing.

You must hate yourself to your very core and envy those who were able to fight off the invaders from their land while the American indian was destroyed and put on reservations by the white man.

You understand what I said very well.....

 

[menewa]

Originally posted by ajwps
Huh?

Yeh you got it. Your self hate for the victim and your love for the terrorist murderers is very revealing.

You must hate yourself to your very core and envy those who were able to fight off the invaders from their land while the American indian was destroyed and put on reservations by the white man.

You understand what I said very well.....

You assume too much.

If you read my post at all you would see that I see no sense or justification in suicide bombing of innocent civilians, it makes me sick.

But I can also feel for the innocent Palestinians who have been robbed of their farmland and had their homes demolished and so forth. Not all Palestinians are terrorists, just like not all Israelis are anti-Palestinian.

Because I'm trying to view the issue from both sides I somehow hate myself to the "very core."

Now I'm going to assume something.
Maybe if you had a college degree you could also learn to see things from multiple angles.

 

[Mustafa]

Originally posted by menewa

You assume too much.

REALLY???

If you read my post at all you would see that I see no sense or justification in suicide bombing of innocent civilians, it makes me sick.

But even though killing innocents by blowing up your children makes you sick, you find it justifies the taking of another people's land.

But I can also feel for the innocent Palestinians who have been robbed of their farmland and had their homes demolished and so forth. Not all Palestinians are terrorists, just like not all Israelis are anti-Palestinian.

Where can you demonstrate that there were ever any Arabs called Palestinians or that were ever anything but the people of the Jewish land named Palestine by the British Empire?

What difference does it make when there are a few Muslim Arabs who live in Israel who do not wish to kill all the Jewish people. The Arabs robbed themselves of the land that they lived on by allowing the majority of their brothers to steal the 3,316 year old land of Israel from its indigenous people?

If you live in the land of England, France or the United States do you think that the land you sit on belongs to you? Think again....

All the land belongs to the country in which you reside. Try not paying the taxes on your own lot and home in the USA or any other country and see how long it takes for it to be taken away from you.

Israel has tried to give these people a piece of their own land but obviously they don't want even a square inch of their farms, homes and villages. They turned the offer down flat and decided to kill the owners of the land of Israel (the people of Israel).

For this reason alone they must be moved out just like every other of their Arab brother countries have done to these same people who you think own land in Israel. These brother Arab countries kicked them out of their country as well.

If you have had an education, you might want to think and ponder before making ludicrous statements based on lies and propaganda by the Islamic allowed deception called Al-Taqiyya.

Because I'm trying to view the issue from both sides I somehow hate myself to the "very core."

Obviously you do when you find that you sympathize with the evil. How else could any psychiatrist explain your views?

Now I'm going to assume something.
Maybe if you had a college degree you could also learn to see things from multiple angles.

You can be educated, look at both sides of an issue and decide that sometimes the claims of one side are simply lies. This is obvious to anyone who can think.