What A Big Government Conservative Looks Like

[ScienceRocks]

What A Big Government Conservative Looks Like

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2012/01/06/what-a-big-government-conservative-looks-like/

Posted by Erick Erickson (Diary)

Friday, January 6th at 12:13PM EST
180 Comments


I’m rather tired of all the people who don’t like Romney trying to claim Rick Santorum is not a big government conservative, or not a pro-life statist. I would support him before I would support Romney too, but I have no intention of giving up ideological and intellectual consistency in the name of beating Mitt Romney.

Rick Santorum is a pro-life statist. He is. You will have to deal with it. He is a big government conservative. Santorum is right on social issues, but has never let his love of social issues stand in the way of the creeping expansion of the welfare state. In fact, he has been complicit in the expansion of the welfare state.

I and some friends, none of us Romney fans, have set about exploring Santorum’s record since Wednesday morning. Here now is a non-exhaustive list of what we have found. It does not even include his support for No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, etc.

This is not the record of a man committed to scaling back the welfare state or the nanny state


Immigration
Voted against increasing the number of immigration investigators
Voted to allow illegal immigrants to receive the earned income credit before becoming citizens
Voted to give SSI benefits to legal aliens.
Voted to give welfare benefits to naturalized citizens without regard to to the earnings of their sponsors.
Voted against hiring an additional 1,000 border partrol agents, paid for by reductions in state grants.



Spending and Entitlements
Voted to make Medicare part B premium subsidies an new entitlement.
Voted against paying off the debt ($5.6 trillion at the time) within 30 years.
Voted to give $18 billion to the IMF.
Voted to raid Social Security instead of using surpluses to pay down the debt.


Health Care
Voted to allow states to impose health care mandates that are stricter than proposed new Federal mandates, but not weaker.
Voted twice for Federal mental health parity mandates in health insurance.
Voted against a allow consumers the option to purchase a plan outside the parity mandate.

Education
Voted to increase Federal funding for teacher testing
Voted to increase spending for the Department of Education by $3.1 billion.
Voted against requiring courts to consider the impact of IDEA awards on a local school district.


Welfare
Voted against food stamp reform
Voted against Medicaid reform
Voted against TANF reform
Voted to increase the Social Services Block Grant from $1 billion to $2 billion
Voted to increase the FHA loan from $170,000 to $197,000. Also opposed increasing GNMA guaranty from 6 basis points to 12.
Voted for $2 billion for low income heating assistance.

Sounds like a liberal to me!

Here is some more of Sandorum.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFr8sbYlEgo]Rick Santorum 2006 Wrestling Ad on Compromising With Democrats. - YouTube[/ame]

"I and some friends, none of us Romney fans, have set about exploring Santorum’s record since Wednesday morning. Here now is a non-exhaustive list of what we have found. It does not even include his support for No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, etc.
This is not the record of a man committed to scaling back the welfare state or the nanny state."

 

[ScienceRocks]

Here is my thread on Sandorum voting against right for work!
http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/202321-this-won-t-play-well-in-south-carolina.html

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

even the fact that there is a term like "big government conservative" drives me crazy. you're either fiscally responsible (what conservative use to mean) or you're fiscally irresponsible (what pretty much both parties are now).

 

[ScienceRocks]

even the fact that there is a term like "big government conservative" drives me crazy. you're either fiscally responsible (what conservative use to mean) or you're fiscally irresponsible (what pretty much both parties are now).

Sandorum is a George Bush kind.

 

[rdean]

What A Big Government Conservative Looks Like

What A Big Government Conservative Looks Like | RedState

Posted by Erick Erickson (Diary)

Friday, January 6th at 12:13PM EST
180 Comments


I’m rather tired of all the people who don’t like Romney trying to claim Rick Santorum is not a big government conservative, or not a pro-life statist. I would support him before I would support Romney too, but I have no intention of giving up ideological and intellectual consistency in the name of beating Mitt Romney.

Rick Santorum is a pro-life statist. He is. You will have to deal with it. He is a big government conservative. Santorum is right on social issues, but has never let his love of social issues stand in the way of the creeping expansion of the welfare state. In fact, he has been complicit in the expansion of the welfare state.

I and some friends, none of us Romney fans, have set about exploring Santorum’s record since Wednesday morning. Here now is a non-exhaustive list of what we have found. It does not even include his support for No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, etc.

This is not the record of a man committed to scaling back the welfare state or the nanny state


Immigration
Voted against increasing the number of immigration investigators
Voted to allow illegal immigrants to receive the earned income credit before becoming citizens
Voted to give SSI benefits to legal aliens.
Voted to give welfare benefits to naturalized citizens without regard to to the earnings of their sponsors.
Voted against hiring an additional 1,000 border partrol agents, paid for by reductions in state grants.



Spending and Entitlements
Voted to make Medicare part B premium subsidies an new entitlement.
Voted against paying off the debt ($5.6 trillion at the time) within 30 years.
Voted to give $18 billion to the IMF.
Voted to raid Social Security instead of using surpluses to pay down the debt.


Health Care
Voted to allow states to impose health care mandates that are stricter than proposed new Federal mandates, but not weaker.
Voted twice for Federal mental health parity mandates in health insurance.
Voted against a allow consumers the option to purchase a plan outside the parity mandate.

Education
Voted to increase Federal funding for teacher testing
Voted to increase spending for the Department of Education by $3.1 billion.
Voted against requiring courts to consider the impact of IDEA awards on a local school district.


Welfare
Voted against food stamp reform
Voted against Medicaid reform
Voted against TANF reform
Voted to increase the Social Services Block Grant from $1 billion to $2 billion
Voted to increase the FHA loan from $170,000 to $197,000. Also opposed increasing GNMA guaranty from 6 basis points to 12.
Voted for $2 billion for low income heating assistance.

Sounds like a liberal to me!

Here is some more of Sandorum.
Rick Santorum 2006 Wrestling Ad on Compromising With Democrats. - YouTube

"I and some friends, none of us Romney fans, have set about exploring Santorum’s record since Wednesday morning. Here now is a non-exhaustive list of what we have found. It does not even include his support for No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, etc.
This is not the record of a man committed to scaling back the welfare state or the nanny state."

Sounds like a liberal? Republicans tell people to go to the emergency room which costs 10 times more than going to a clinic. The cost is passed on to the tax payer. Democrats want to protect the Middle Class from going broke. Republicans want to drain them dry to enrich the top 1%.

If you are going to make what you consider "factual statements", at least make sure they are "factual". That's why Republican talking points make no sense. Because they make no sense.

 

[ScienceRocks]

What A Big Government Conservative Looks Like

What A Big Government Conservative Looks Like | RedState

Posted by Erick Erickson (Diary)

Friday, January 6th at 12:13PM EST
180 Comments


I’m rather tired of all the people who don’t like Romney trying to claim Rick Santorum is not a big government conservative, or not a pro-life statist. I would support him before I would support Romney too, but I have no intention of giving up ideological and intellectual consistency in the name of beating Mitt Romney.

Rick Santorum is a pro-life statist. He is. You will have to deal with it. He is a big government conservative. Santorum is right on social issues, but has never let his love of social issues stand in the way of the creeping expansion of the welfare state. In fact, he has been complicit in the expansion of the welfare state.

I and some friends, none of us Romney fans, have set about exploring Santorum’s record since Wednesday morning. Here now is a non-exhaustive list of what we have found. It does not even include his support for No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, etc.

This is not the record of a man committed to scaling back the welfare state or the nanny state


Immigration
Voted against increasing the number of immigration investigators
Voted to allow illegal immigrants to receive the earned income credit before becoming citizens
Voted to give SSI benefits to legal aliens.
Voted to give welfare benefits to naturalized citizens without regard to to the earnings of their sponsors.
Voted against hiring an additional 1,000 border partrol agents, paid for by reductions in state grants.



Spending and Entitlements
Voted to make Medicare part B premium subsidies an new entitlement.
Voted against paying off the debt ($5.6 trillion at the time) within 30 years.
Voted to give $18 billion to the IMF.
Voted to raid Social Security instead of using surpluses to pay down the debt.


Health Care
Voted to allow states to impose health care mandates that are stricter than proposed new Federal mandates, but not weaker.
Voted twice for Federal mental health parity mandates in health insurance.
Voted against a allow consumers the option to purchase a plan outside the parity mandate.

Education
Voted to increase Federal funding for teacher testing
Voted to increase spending for the Department of Education by $3.1 billion.
Voted against requiring courts to consider the impact of IDEA awards on a local school district.


Welfare
Voted against food stamp reform
Voted against Medicaid reform
Voted against TANF reform
Voted to increase the Social Services Block Grant from $1 billion to $2 billion
Voted to increase the FHA loan from $170,000 to $197,000. Also opposed increasing GNMA guaranty from 6 basis points to 12.
Voted for $2 billion for low income heating assistance.

Sounds like a liberal to me!

Here is some more of Sandorum.
Rick Santorum 2006 Wrestling Ad on Compromising With Democrats. - YouTube

"I and some friends, none of us Romney fans, have set about exploring Santorum’s record since Wednesday morning. Here now is a non-exhaustive list of what we have found. It does not even include his support for No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, etc.
This is not the record of a man committed to scaling back the welfare state or the nanny state."

Sounds like a liberal? Republicans tell people to go to the emergency room which costs 10 times more than going to a clinic. The cost is passed on to the tax payer. Democrats want to protect the Middle Class from going broke. Republicans want to drain them dry to enrich the top 1%.

If you are going to make what you consider "factual statements", at least make sure they are "factual". That's why Republican talking points make no sense. Because they make no sense.

Yeah, anyone that supports a big federal government handing out free shit is a liberal! That's a fact.

 

[Middleoftheroad]

even the fact that there is a term like "big government conservative" drives me crazy. you're either fiscally responsible (what conservative use to mean) or you're fiscally irresponsible (what pretty much both parties are now).

Conservative never meant fiscally responsible. For the last 30 years, the only time there has been fiscal responsibility was during the Clinton admin. Before that going all the way back to WW2 every president was fiscally responsible. Trying to divide fiscally responsible vs fiscally irresponsible by party is going to be nearly impossible.

 

[ScienceRocks]

even the fact that there is a term like "big government conservative" drives me crazy. you're either fiscally responsible (what conservative use to mean) or you're fiscally irresponsible (what pretty much both parties are now).

Conservative never meant fiscally responsible. For the last 30 years, the only time there has been fiscal responsibility was during the Clinton admin. Before that going all the way back to WW2 every president was fiscally responsible. Trying to divide fiscally responsible vs fiscally irresponsible by party is going to be nearly impossible.

Kind of true, but Clinton only did good because he had someone like newt holding his ass to the fire. I will admit when it comes to the economy, he was fairly good. Carter and Obama suck and are big spenders on the other hand.

Reagan, George hw Bush and George W Bush all spent lots of money, while being socially conserative. All working except clinton to grow debt and governement. Rick Sandorum would be just like Bush as many of the bills he supported were Bush pushed bills.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I like the way how Ron Paul started to expose this turkey at the start of the debate,. All Rick could do is spin, spin and spin some more!

 

[The Rabbi]

We're supposed to take the criticism of a Ron Paul wookie-suiter seriously here? Rly?

 

[whitehall]

Eric Ericson? The old socio-eugenics quack? Why not quote Saul Alinsky for the full effect?

 

[ScienceRocks]

Eric Ericson? The old socio-eugenics quack? Why not quote Saul Alinsky for the full effect?

Is it not Rick Sandorums record?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

So were copying and pasting from other forums now? That's very BDboopish.

 

[Oddball]

What A Big Government Conservative Looks Like

What A Big Government Conservative Looks Like | RedState

Posted by Erick Erickson (Diary)

Friday, January 6th at 12:13PM EST
180 Comments


I’m rather tired of all the people who don’t like Romney trying to claim Rick Santorum is not a big government conservative, or not a pro-life statist. I would support him before I would support Romney too, but I have no intention of giving up ideological and intellectual consistency in the name of beating Mitt Romney.

Rick Santorum is a pro-life statist. He is. You will have to deal with it. He is a big government conservative. Santorum is right on social issues, but has never let his love of social issues stand in the way of the creeping expansion of the welfare state. In fact, he has been complicit in the expansion of the welfare state.

I and some friends, none of us Romney fans, have set about exploring Santorum’s record since Wednesday morning. Here now is a non-exhaustive list of what we have found. It does not even include his support for No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, etc.

This is not the record of a man committed to scaling back the welfare state or the nanny state


Immigration
Voted against increasing the number of immigration investigators
Voted to allow illegal immigrants to receive the earned income credit before becoming citizens
Voted to give SSI benefits to legal aliens.
Voted to give welfare benefits to naturalized citizens without regard to to the earnings of their sponsors.
Voted against hiring an additional 1,000 border partrol agents, paid for by reductions in state grants.



Spending and Entitlements
Voted to make Medicare part B premium subsidies an new entitlement.
Voted against paying off the debt ($5.6 trillion at the time) within 30 years.
Voted to give $18 billion to the IMF.
Voted to raid Social Security instead of using surpluses to pay down the debt.


Health Care
Voted to allow states to impose health care mandates that are stricter than proposed new Federal mandates, but not weaker.
Voted twice for Federal mental health parity mandates in health insurance.
Voted against a allow consumers the option to purchase a plan outside the parity mandate.

Education
Voted to increase Federal funding for teacher testing
Voted to increase spending for the Department of Education by $3.1 billion.
Voted against requiring courts to consider the impact of IDEA awards on a local school district.


Welfare
Voted against food stamp reform
Voted against Medicaid reform
Voted against TANF reform
Voted to increase the Social Services Block Grant from $1 billion to $2 billion
Voted to increase the FHA loan from $170,000 to $197,000. Also opposed increasing GNMA guaranty from 6 basis points to 12.
Voted for $2 billion for low income heating assistance.

Sounds like a liberal to me!

Here is some more of Sandorum.
Rick Santorum 2006 Wrestling Ad on Compromising With Democrats. - YouTube

"I and some friends, none of us Romney fans, have set about exploring Santorum’s record since Wednesday morning. Here now is a non-exhaustive list of what we have found. It does not even include his support for No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, etc.
This is not the record of a man committed to scaling back the welfare state or the nanny state."

inSanetorum is just another in a long line of neocon turds....The GOP is positively overrun with them.

The modern-day, limited-government movement has been co-opted. The conservatives have failed in their effort to shrink the size of government. There has not been, nor will there soon be, a conservative revolution in Washington. Political party control of the federal government has changed, but the inexorable growth in the size and scope of government has continued unabated. The liberal arguments for limited government in personal affairs and foreign military adventurism were never seriously considered as part of this revolution.

<snip>

One thing is certain: conservatives who worked and voted for less government in the Reagan years and welcomed the takeover of the U.S. Congress and the presidency in the 1990s and early 2000s were deceived. Soon they will realize that the goal of limited government has been dashed and that their views no longer matter.

The so-called conservative revolution of the past two decades has given us massive growth in government size, spending and regulations. Deficits are exploding and the national debt is now rising at greater than a half-trillion dollars per year. Taxes do not go down — even if we vote to lower them. They can't, as long as spending is increased, since all spending must be paid for one way or another. Both Presidents Reagan and the elder George Bush raised taxes directly. With this administration, so far, direct taxes have been reduced — and they certainly should have been — but it means little if spending increases and deficits rise.

<snip>

More important than the names of people affiliated with neo-conservatism are the views they adhere to. Here is a brief summary of the general understanding of what neocons believe:

1. They agree with Trotsky on permanent revolution, violent as well as intellectual.
2. They are for redrawing the map of the Middle East and are willing to use force to do so.
3. They believe in preemptive war to achieve desired ends.
4. They accept the notion that the ends justify the means — that hard-ball politics is a moral necessity.
5. They express no opposition to the welfare state.
6. They are not bashful about an American empire; instead they strongly endorse it.[/B]
7. They believe lying is necessary for the state to survive.
8. They believe a powerful federal government is a benefit.
9. They believe pertinent facts about how a society should be run should be held by the elite and withheld from those who do not have the courage to deal with it.
10. They believe neutrality in foreign affairs is ill-advised.
11. They hold Leo Strauss in high esteem.
12. They believe imperialism, if progressive in nature, is appropriate.
13. Using American might to force American ideals on others is acceptable. 14. Force should not be limited to the defense of our country.
15. 9-11 resulted from the lack of foreign entanglements, not from too many.
16. They dislike and despise libertarians (therefore, the same applies to all strict constitutionalists).
17. They endorse attacks on civil liberties, such as those found in the Patriot Act, as being necessary.
18. They unconditionally support Israel and have a close alliance with the Likud Party.

We've Been Neo-Conned

 

[occupied]

I think he looks more like an ex meth head who kicked the habit with the help of Jeebus.

 

[whitehall]

What makes a dead obscure neo-eugenics quack the new spokesperson for the Ron Paul version of government?

 

[ScienceRocks]

What makes a dead obscure neo-eugenics quack the new spokesperson for the Ron Paul version of government?

I don't understand why it matters who is the messager of Sandorums record, but more importantly the content of such. The truth is Sandorum did vote for all these things and is every bit as bad as George w Bush on these issues. Better then Obama, you bet, but we as a nation are deep in debt and we can't afford anymore.

I don't care if the guy exposing it believes in green men landing in your back yard. That's not the issue at hand.

 

[Londoner]

Good Big Government Republican
Eisenhower, when he built the interstate system, which lead to massive efficiency gains for the private sector. This is a case, like with the Hoover Dam, where government does big things which lead to massive profits.

Bad Big Government Republican
Reagan, when he doubled Carter's spending, and created debt as far as eye could see with things like the Star Wars Missile Defense system. [For every dollar Reagan cut from middle class programs, he put thousands into the pockets of the weapons manufacturers who, with big oil, got him elected] We won't mention the War on Drugs, which created a massive, expensive federal bureaucracy to lord over the states. Nor will we mention his amnesty bill, or his failure to enforce the Sherman Act, which created too-big-to fail monsters in banking, and ushered in an era of mega-mergers which spawned businesses large enough to buy government, thus replacing representative Democracy with the lobbying industrial complex. Reagan wasn't kidding when he declared that he would put business in charge of government and regulations. Now, all our politicians work for the big money which funds their elections. The market winners literally run government; they write their own regulations and policies). [This is why Chaney refused to disclose who was in the room when Bush's energy and middle eastern policies where being drafted] Point is: Big Business has swallowed big government. Indeed, since Reagan, Defense policy has been written by oil companies and weapons manufacturers, while Health Care is written by a small monopoly of insurance providers, and Drug Bills are written by big pharma (which owns over 80% of the Republican party and all Blue Dog Democrats).

But it gets even better.

Because business funds think tanks, talk radio, and TV, they have the means to convince voters that something besides business runs government.

The reason the GOP uses words like "elitist" or "ivory tower" to describe the university system is because they don't want Republican voters to wander from Glen Beck to peer reviewed sources or rigorous research environments. Indeed, the Republican establishment has to keep their voters locked in a hermetically sealed info-bubble. Think about it. The GOP doesn't want to have to sell the War on Terrorism to people who have deep knowledge of what the past six administrations have done in the region, especially Reagan and his relationship to Hussein and Afghanistan's Mujahideen, or even pre-Reagan with the Shaw (which radicalized the region away from America and toward radical islam, or the long reign of the British - all of which fueled the development of homegrown resistance). The reason Washington can get away with terrible foreign policies is because a huge part of the electorate gets educated by Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. For this reason, most voters - especially on the right - can't even name the things that Reagan did which would classify him as a big government republican. Reagan's history has been re-written by the Norquist-driven Reagan legacy project - another think-tank-type organization that gets away with murder because the average GOP voter has never taken a university level course on politics or American history.

In other words: God help us.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Good Big Government Republican
Eisenhower, when he built the interstate system, which lead to massive efficiency gains for the private sector. This is a case, like with the Hoover Dam, where government does big things which lead to massive profits.

Bad Big Government Republican
Reagan, when he doubled Carter's spending, and created debt as far as eye could see with things like the Star Wars Missile Defense system. [For every dollar Reagan cut from middle class programs, he put thousands into the pockets of the weapons manufacturers who, with big oil, got him elected] We won't mention the War on Drugs, which created a massive, expensive federal bureaucracy to lord over the states. Nor will we mention his amnesty bill, or his failure to enforce the Sherman Act, which created too-big-to fail monsters in banking, and ushered in an era of mega-mergers which spawned businesses large enough to buy government, thus replacing representative Democracy with the lobbying industrial complex. Reagan wasn't kidding when he declared that he would put business in charge of government and regulations. Now, all our politicians work for the big money which funds their elections. The market winners literally run government; they write their own regulations and policies). [This is why Chaney refused to disclose who was in the room when Bush's energy and middle eastern policies where being drafted] Point is: Big Business has swallowed big government. Indeed, since Reagan, Defense policy has been written by oil companies and weapons manufacturers, while Health Care is written by a small monopoly of insurance providers, and Drug Bills are written by big pharma (which owns over 80% of the Republican party and all Blue Dog Democrats).

But it gets even better.

Because business funds think tanks, talk radio, and TV, they have the means to convince voters that something besides business runs government.

The reason the GOP uses words like "elitist" or "ivory tower" to describe the university system is because they don't want Republican voters to wander from Glen Beck to peer reviewed sources or rigorous research environments. Indeed, the Republican establishment has to keep their voters locked in a hermetically sealed info-bubble. Think about it. The GOP doesn't want to have to sell the War on Terrorism to people who have deep knowledge of what the past six administrations have done in the region, especially Reagan and his relationship to Hussein and Afghanistan's Mujahideen, or even pre-Reagan with the Shaw (which radicalized the region away from America and toward radical islam, or the long reign of the British - all of which fueled the development of homegrown resistance). The reason Washington can get away with terrible foreign policies is because a huge part of the electorate gets educated by Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. For this reason, most voters - especially on the right - can't even name the things that Reagan did which would classify him as a big government republican. Reagan's history has been re-written by the Norquist-driven Reagan legacy project - another think-tank-type organization that gets away with murder because the average GOP voter has never taken a university level course on politics or American history.

In other words: God help us.

What's good about Ron Paul is he wants to cut government and to follow the Consitution with the power going to the states. Sandorum is a big government Republican. Most of what you say is very true.

 

[edthecynic]

even the fact that there is a term like "big government conservative" drives me crazy. you're either fiscally responsible (what conservative use to mean) or you're fiscally irresponsible (what pretty much both parties are now).

Conservative never meant fiscally responsible. For the last 30 years, the only time there has been fiscal responsibility was during the Clinton admin. Before that going all the way back to WW2 every president was fiscally responsible. Trying to divide fiscally responsible vs fiscally irresponsible by party is going to be nearly impossible.

Kind of true, but Clinton only did good because he had someone like newt holding his ass to the fire. I will admit when it comes to the economy, he was fairly good. Carter and Obama suck and are big spenders on the other hand.

Reagan, George hw Bush and George W Bush all spent lots of money, while being socially conserative. All working except clinton to grow debt and governement. Rick Sandorum would be just like Bush as many of the bills he supported were Bush pushed bills.

That is, of course, pure CON$ervative bullshit. It was more like Clinton holding the GOP's asses to the fire. Once Clinton was replaced by Bush, the same GOP Congress without Clinton reining them in spent like drunken sailors.