Western armor gets creamed by hand-held rockets

[longknife]

Makes no difference whether it was Russian T-90. US M1 Abrams, or the feared German Leopards, all suffered massive defeats at the hands of rebels with missiles.

TOW missiles used by Syrian rebels blew holes through Russia's armored tanks.

The interconnected conflicts raging across the Middle East today have amounted to a dreadful human catastrophe with spiraling global consequence. One of their lesser effects has been to deflate the reputations of Western main battle tanks mistakenly thought to be night-invulnerable in the popular imagination.

Iraqi M1 Abrams tanks not only failed to prevent he capture of Mosul in 2014, but they were captured and turned against their owners. In Yemen, numerous Saudi M1s were knocked out by Houthi rebels. Turkey, which had lost a number of M60 Pattons and upgrade M60T Sabra tanks to Kurdish and ISIS fighters eventually deployed its fearsome German-built Leopard 2A4 tanks. ISIS destroyed eight to ten in a matter of days.

We build these massive steel boxes to fight one another and they never face off. It makes no difference whether it’s the heavy stuff or APCs, missiles seems to nullify their very reason for being.

A whole lot more about this @ Russia's Tank Forces Got A Really Rude Awakening In Syria

 

[westwall]

Makes no difference whether it was Russian T-90. US M1 Abrams, or the feared German Leopards, all suffered massive defeats at the hands of rebels with missiles.

TOW missiles used by Syrian rebels blew holes through Russia's armored tanks.

The interconnected conflicts raging across the Middle East today have amounted to a dreadful human catastrophe with spiraling global consequence. One of their lesser effects has been to deflate the reputations of Western main battle tanks mistakenly thought to be night-invulnerable in the popular imagination.

Iraqi M1 Abrams tanks not only failed to prevent he capture of Mosul in 2014, but they were captured and turned against their owners. In Yemen, numerous Saudi M1s were knocked out by Houthi rebels. Turkey, which had lost a number of M60 Pattons and upgrade M60T Sabra tanks to Kurdish and ISIS fighters eventually deployed its fearsome German-built Leopard 2A4 tanks. ISIS destroyed eight to ten in a matter of days.

We build these massive steel boxes to fight one another and they never face off. It makes no difference whether it’s the heavy stuff or APCs, missiles seems to nullify their very reason for being.

A whole lot more about this @ Russia's Tank Forces Got A Really Rude Awakening In Syria

The M1A2 is nearly impervious to missiles. The reason they were lost is their crews abandoned them.

Big difference.

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

Bit off topic but the same will happen to large naval vessels. Missile technology has outpaced armor and defensive countermeasures. Hypersonic missiles will decimate carriers and the like.

Russia’s New Hypersonic Missile Travels Nearly Two Miles a Second

 

[westwall]

Bit off topic but the same will happen to large naval vessels. Missile technology has outpaced armor and defensive countermeasures. Hypersonic missiles will decimate carriers and the like.

Russia’s New Hypersonic Missile Travels Nearly Two Miles a Second

Directed energy defensive measures. That and the British Seawolf anti aircraft missile system was tested against 4.5 inch artillery shells. Much smaller, and yet direct hits were common.

 

[Oddball]

USA 20 mm Phalanx Close-in Weapon System (CIWS) - NavWeaps

 

[westwall]

USA 20 mm Phalanx Close-in Weapon System (CIWS) - NavWeaps

C-Wiz, is great, but it is getting old. We need a new system.

 

[Oddball]

USA 20 mm Phalanx Close-in Weapon System (CIWS) - NavWeaps

C-Wiz, is great, but it is getting old. We need a new system.

That's cute....

 

[harmonica]

Makes no difference whether it was Russian T-90. US M1 Abrams, or the feared German Leopards, all suffered massive defeats at the hands of rebels with missiles.

TOW missiles used by Syrian rebels blew holes through Russia's armored tanks.

The interconnected conflicts raging across the Middle East today have amounted to a dreadful human catastrophe with spiraling global consequence. One of their lesser effects has been to deflate the reputations of Western main battle tanks mistakenly thought to be night-invulnerable in the popular imagination.

Iraqi M1 Abrams tanks not only failed to prevent he capture of Mosul in 2014, but they were captured and turned against their owners. In Yemen, numerous Saudi M1s were knocked out by Houthi rebels. Turkey, which had lost a number of M60 Pattons and upgrade M60T Sabra tanks to Kurdish and ISIS fighters eventually deployed its fearsome German-built Leopard 2A4 tanks. ISIS destroyed eight to ten in a matter of days.

We build these massive steel boxes to fight one another and they never face off. It makes no difference whether it’s the heavy stuff or APCs, missiles seems to nullify their very reason for being.

A whole lot more about this @ Russia's Tank Forces Got A Really Rude Awakening In Syria

hahahahahah--
-the tanks are supposed to work with the infantry for close in protection
..and it's not the weapon--it's the operator and the tactics
do I need to give examples?

 

[westwall]

USA 20 mm Phalanx Close-in Weapon System (CIWS) - NavWeaps

C-Wiz, is great, but it is getting old. We need a new system.

That's cute....

It's factual. The B-52 can only fly where we have air supremacy. Introduce a SAM to the theater and the 52s are toast.

 

[harmonica]

Bit off topic but the same will happen to large naval vessels. Missile technology has outpaced armor and defensive countermeasures. Hypersonic missiles will decimate carriers and the like.

Russia’s New Hypersonic Missile Travels Nearly Two Miles a Second

.....that's what they said about bombers before WW2--you won't need infantry or a navy--the bomber will win the war --they were wrong

 

[Crepitus]

Makes no difference whether it was Russian T-90. US M1 Abrams, or the feared German Leopards, all suffered massive defeats at the hands of rebels with missiles.

TOW missiles used by Syrian rebels blew holes through Russia's armored tanks.

The interconnected conflicts raging across the Middle East today have amounted to a dreadful human catastrophe with spiraling global consequence. One of their lesser effects has been to deflate the reputations of Western main battle tanks mistakenly thought to be night-invulnerable in the popular imagination.

Iraqi M1 Abrams tanks not only failed to prevent he capture of Mosul in 2014, but they were captured and turned against their owners. In Yemen, numerous Saudi M1s were knocked out by Houthi rebels. Turkey, which had lost a number of M60 Pattons and upgrade M60T Sabra tanks to Kurdish and ISIS fighters eventually deployed its fearsome German-built Leopard 2A4 tanks. ISIS destroyed eight to ten in a matter of days.

We build these massive steel boxes to fight one another and they never face off. It makes no difference whether it’s the heavy stuff or APCs, missiles seems to nullify their very reason for being.

A whole lot more about this @ Russia's Tank Forces Got A Really Rude Awakening In Syria

Hard to out enough armor on something to defeat a self-forging penetrator. All advanced militaries are working on active defenses for that.

 

[westwall]

Makes no difference whether it was Russian T-90. US M1 Abrams, or the feared German Leopards, all suffered massive defeats at the hands of rebels with missiles.

TOW missiles used by Syrian rebels blew holes through Russia's armored tanks.

The interconnected conflicts raging across the Middle East today have amounted to a dreadful human catastrophe with spiraling global consequence. One of their lesser effects has been to deflate the reputations of Western main battle tanks mistakenly thought to be night-invulnerable in the popular imagination.

Iraqi M1 Abrams tanks not only failed to prevent he capture of Mosul in 2014, but they were captured and turned against their owners. In Yemen, numerous Saudi M1s were knocked out by Houthi rebels. Turkey, which had lost a number of M60 Pattons and upgrade M60T Sabra tanks to Kurdish and ISIS fighters eventually deployed its fearsome German-built Leopard 2A4 tanks. ISIS destroyed eight to ten in a matter of days.

We build these massive steel boxes to fight one another and they never face off. It makes no difference whether it’s the heavy stuff or APCs, missiles seems to nullify their very reason for being.

A whole lot more about this @ Russia's Tank Forces Got A Really Rude Awakening In Syria

Hard to out enough armor on something to defeat a self-forging penetrator. All advanced militaries are working on active defenses for that.

The Abrams armor suite is already there.

 

[Flash]

Makes no difference whether it was Russian T-90. US M1 Abrams, or the feared German Leopards, all suffered massive defeats at the hands of rebels with missiles.

TOW missiles used by Syrian rebels blew holes through Russia's armored tanks.

The interconnected conflicts raging across the Middle East today have amounted to a dreadful human catastrophe with spiraling global consequence. One of their lesser effects has been to deflate the reputations of Western main battle tanks mistakenly thought to be night-invulnerable in the popular imagination.

Iraqi M1 Abrams tanks not only failed to prevent he capture of Mosul in 2014, but they were captured and turned against their owners. In Yemen, numerous Saudi M1s were knocked out by Houthi rebels. Turkey, which had lost a number of M60 Pattons and upgrade M60T Sabra tanks to Kurdish and ISIS fighters eventually deployed its fearsome German-built Leopard 2A4 tanks. ISIS destroyed eight to ten in a matter of days.

We build these massive steel boxes to fight one another and they never face off. It makes no difference whether it’s the heavy stuff or APCs, missiles seems to nullify their very reason for being.

A whole lot more about this @ Russia's Tank Forces Got A Really Rude Awakening In Syria

The US military in WWII had it right.

American tanks were to be infantry support, not tank destroyers .

You knock out the enemy tanks with artillery and air power.

We lost Pershing tanks when they went one on one with heavier German tanks but at the end of the day we devastated Axis armor in Europe with that doctrine.

 

[harmonica]

USA 20 mm Phalanx Close-in Weapon System (CIWS) - NavWeaps

C-Wiz, is great, but it is getting old. We need a new system.

That's cute....

It's factual. The B-52 can only fly where we have air supremacy. Introduce a SAM to the theater and the 52s are toast.

I thought we had anti-radar/etc aircraft? like the Weasels
..it's a whole system working together--not just the bombers --fighters/weasels/AWACS/tankers/bombers/etc---just becasuse they have SAMs doesn't mean we wouldn't or couldn't go in and kick A$$
....it's silly to think no planes will be shot down.....just like ground combat--you will have deaths usually --just because the enemy ground units have rifles, doesn't mean the friendlies won't attack

 

[harmonica]

USA 20 mm Phalanx Close-in Weapon System (CIWS) - NavWeaps

C-Wiz, is great, but it is getting old. We need a new system.

That's cute....

It's factual. The B-52 can only fly where we have air supremacy. Introduce a SAM to the theater and the 52s are toast.

necessary changes: Vary the inbound routes and altitudes, eliminate the PTT and use a straight-ahead “feet-wet” exit out to the Gulf of Tonkin. Although angry at being bypassed, his Eighth Air Force commanders sent a “we agree” message to Meyer, who quickly ordered the changes. (Sullivan must have understood he’d fallen on his sword; despite his leading role in winning the war’s decisive battle, he was denied a second star and retired two years later.)

after they changed tactics, they did much better --mission accomplished in a SAM area
Operation Linebacker II: The 11-Day War

 

[harmonica]

Makes no difference whether it was Russian T-90. US M1 Abrams, or the feared German Leopards, all suffered massive defeats at the hands of rebels with missiles.

TOW missiles used by Syrian rebels blew holes through Russia's armored tanks.

The interconnected conflicts raging across the Middle East today have amounted to a dreadful human catastrophe with spiraling global consequence. One of their lesser effects has been to deflate the reputations of Western main battle tanks mistakenly thought to be night-invulnerable in the popular imagination.

Iraqi M1 Abrams tanks not only failed to prevent he capture of Mosul in 2014, but they were captured and turned against their owners. In Yemen, numerous Saudi M1s were knocked out by Houthi rebels. Turkey, which had lost a number of M60 Pattons and upgrade M60T Sabra tanks to Kurdish and ISIS fighters eventually deployed its fearsome German-built Leopard 2A4 tanks. ISIS destroyed eight to ten in a matter of days.

We build these massive steel boxes to fight one another and they never face off. It makes no difference whether it’s the heavy stuff or APCs, missiles seems to nullify their very reason for being.

A whole lot more about this @ Russia's Tank Forces Got A Really Rude Awakening In Syria

The US military in WWII had it right.

American tanks were to be infantry support, not tank destroyers .

You knock out the enemy tanks with artillery and air power.

We lost Pershing tanks when they went one on one with heavier German tanks but at the end of the day we devastated Axis armor in Europe with that doctrine.

what?? that's how France lost with BETTER and MORE tanks

 

[Oddball]

Makes no difference whether it was Russian T-90. US M1 Abrams, or the feared German Leopards, all suffered massive defeats at the hands of rebels with missiles.

TOW missiles used by Syrian rebels blew holes through Russia's armored tanks.

The interconnected conflicts raging across the Middle East today have amounted to a dreadful human catastrophe with spiraling global consequence. One of their lesser effects has been to deflate the reputations of Western main battle tanks mistakenly thought to be night-invulnerable in the popular imagination.

Iraqi M1 Abrams tanks not only failed to prevent he capture of Mosul in 2014, but they were captured and turned against their owners. In Yemen, numerous Saudi M1s were knocked out by Houthi rebels. Turkey, which had lost a number of M60 Pattons and upgrade M60T Sabra tanks to Kurdish and ISIS fighters eventually deployed its fearsome German-built Leopard 2A4 tanks. ISIS destroyed eight to ten in a matter of days.

We build these massive steel boxes to fight one another and they never face off. It makes no difference whether it’s the heavy stuff or APCs, missiles seems to nullify their very reason for being.

A whole lot more about this @ Russia's Tank Forces Got A Really Rude Awakening In Syria

The US military in WWII had it right.

American tanks were to be infantry support, not tank destroyers .

You knock out the enemy tanks with artillery and air power.

We lost Pershing tanks when they went one on one with heavier German tanks but at the end of the day we devastated Axis armor in Europe with that doctrine.

what?? that's how France lost with BETTER and MORE tanks

Depended upon the context of the battles.

France's tanks lost because of obsolete tactics..

The Soviets won at Kursk not from air or artillery supremacy, but attrition of superior numbers....In the big engagements, they rammed the Tigers and made the 88mm gun inoperable

 

[Flash]

Makes no difference whether it was Russian T-90. US M1 Abrams, or the feared German Leopards, all suffered massive defeats at the hands of rebels with missiles.

TOW missiles used by Syrian rebels blew holes through Russia's armored tanks.

The interconnected conflicts raging across the Middle East today have amounted to a dreadful human catastrophe with spiraling global consequence. One of their lesser effects has been to deflate the reputations of Western main battle tanks mistakenly thought to be night-invulnerable in the popular imagination.

Iraqi M1 Abrams tanks not only failed to prevent he capture of Mosul in 2014, but they were captured and turned against their owners. In Yemen, numerous Saudi M1s were knocked out by Houthi rebels. Turkey, which had lost a number of M60 Pattons and upgrade M60T Sabra tanks to Kurdish and ISIS fighters eventually deployed its fearsome German-built Leopard 2A4 tanks. ISIS destroyed eight to ten in a matter of days.

We build these massive steel boxes to fight one another and they never face off. It makes no difference whether it’s the heavy stuff or APCs, missiles seems to nullify their very reason for being.

A whole lot more about this @ Russia's Tank Forces Got A Really Rude Awakening In Syria

The US military in WWII had it right.

American tanks were to be infantry support, not tank destroyers .

You knock out the enemy tanks with artillery and air power.

We lost Pershing tanks when they went one on one with heavier German tanks but at the end of the day we devastated Axis armor in Europe with that doctrine.

what?? that's how France lost with BETTER and MORE tanks

France lost because they got out "generaled". The never figured the Krauts would invade through the forest.

The US never had any intentions to produce a heavy tank somewhere in the US and ship it over to Europe and keep it maintained and fueled with Texas oil. They could produce two or more aircraft or more artillery for the same cost.

Most of the German armor on the Western Front was defeated by American (Allied) air power.

However, to be fair the Soviets took them on with their own heavy tanks and lots of air power and artillery.

The Germans were idiots with their heavy tank doctrine. By the time of Normandy the Germans usually only had 40-50% of them operating at any given time. Later in the war it was about 25%. Meanwhile the Pershing was very easy to keep operating.

 

[there4eyeM]

Today, big is just an easier target. Aircraft carriers, take note.

 

[harmonica]

....TOWs are ''slow'' [ 180 m a second ] and the gunner has to keep the target in sight the wholetime
....I thought wire guided was old--we used that in the 80s...had a TOW missile go very close by us---the TOW boys didn't know we were there ....
....we've got the Javelin now--don't we?? --fire and forget ...

..the TOWs are not a good man portable weapon
there are ground based and vehicle based mounts

from OP link:

and rebels with years of combat experience have learned how to ambush imprudently deployed main battle tanks, particularly using long-range anti-tank missiles from miles away.

miles away???!!! 180 m a second??!! sounds like some crap tank crewmen/units/tactics etc = don't know what they are doing..SURE, you are going to have some casualties, but if TOWs are destroying a lot, that's a tactics/unit problem--not a tank problem