Were Jews ever really slaves in Egypt, or is Passover a myth?

[AVG-JOE]

Were Jews ever really slaves in Egypt, or is Passover a myth?

From the article, emphasis mine.

The reality is that there is no evidence whatsoever that the Jews were ever enslaved in Egypt. Yes, there's the story contained within the bible itself, but that's not a remotely historically admissible source. I'm talking about real proof; archeological evidence, state records and primary sources. Of these, nothing exists.

'No evidence WHATSOEVER...' That is a strong word in this context.

The story of The Passover is pretty much THE set of miracles that validates as God, The God of Abraham, as defined in The Torah, The New Testament and The Qur'an.

If the ancient story of "Passover" is fiction, what does that say of The God who is validated by that story?


Also from the article:

In fact, there's absolutely no more evidence to suggest that the story is true than there is in support of any of the Arab world's conspiracy theories and tall tales about Jews.

Is there any evidence of The Passover outside the writings of The Torah?

Anything's possible... What's plausible?

`​

 

[amrchaos]

You do know that the ancient Egyptians did enslave their neighbors--So the argument "Were there Hebrew slaves in Egypt?" does come across as redundant.

The real question is "How accurate is the Exodus story?" especially given the large number of people that left Egypt at one time and the obvious logistical nightmare involved in feeding that large group of ex-slaves that probably had no knowledge of how to survive in the desert.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Since all were slaves of the Pharoh, then, yes, the Hebrews were slave.

How much "in bondage" where they is another question.

 

[AVG-JOE]

You do know that the ancient Egyptians did enslave their neighbors--So the argument "Were there Hebrew slaves in Egypt?" does come across as redundant.

The real question is "How accurate is the Exodus story?" especially given the large number of people that left Egypt at one time and the obvious logistical nightmare involved in feeding that large group of ex-slaves that probably had no knowledge of how to survive in the desert.

That's the gist of it. And kind of the point.

The article discusses the lack of archeological evidence for The Exodus. One would think that 2 million people on the move like that would have left some trace for the diggers to find, or at least would have been noticed and written about by their neighbors.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are reading real science articles or the evangelical rags.

What two million people? Bet there were maybe 1400, yeah.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The figure 2 million comes from the article I linked...

 

[Penelope]

As far as I read its a myth. Here is just one more book
Amazon.com Egypt knew no Pharaohs nor Israelites eBook Ashraf Ezzat Kindle Store

Also all the archeologists say no signs of exodus.

 

[JakeStarkey]

If it were a group in the low thousands, then there would be no physical evidence in terms of material culture. They were nomadic for two centuries before decimating the hill tribes in the spine of Palestine.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Were Jews ever really slaves in Egypt, or is Passover a myth?

From the article, emphasis mine.

The reality is that there is no evidence whatsoever that the Jews were ever enslaved in Egypt. Yes, there's the story contained within the bible itself, but that's not a remotely historically admissible source. I'm talking about real proof; archeological evidence, state records and primary sources. Of these, nothing exists.

'No evidence WHATSOEVER...' That is a strong word in this context.

The story of The Passover is pretty much THE set of miracles that validates as God, The God of Abraham, as defined in The Torah, The New Testament and The Qur'an.

If the ancient story of "Passover" is fiction, what does that say of The God who is validated by that story?


Also from the article:

In fact, there's absolutely no more evidence to suggest that the story is true than there is in support of any of the Arab world's conspiracy theories and tall tales about Jews.

Is there any evidence of The Passover outside the writings of The Torah?

Anything's possible... What's plausible?

`​

The bible is the true Word of God. Passover and the slavery of the Jews is a historical fact. Interesting - God didn't leave one Jew behind. Not one. They were ALL DELIVERED. The story has a prophetic tone to it when thinking of the scripture .......All Israel shall be saved! I love it.

 

[BlackSand]

Haaretz is Israel's version of the New York Times and ... "It is known for its staunch left-liberal stance on domestic and foreign issues."
If the New York Times came out with an article saying the same thing ... I would have the same response ... So what, add it to the list of other crap they have gotten wrong?

.

 

[amrchaos]

2 million?

I thought the number was like half a million and I thought that was an high estimate.

How many people lived in Egypt at that time?

PS
Remember, we are talking about slaves that virtually stole themselves. I doubt they would have anything that would last for over a few decades, let alone centuries.

Unless, you are looking for dead bodies

 

[AVG-JOE]

If it were a group in the low thousands, then there would be no physical evidence in terms of material culture. They were nomadic for two centuries before decimating the hill tribes in the spine of Palestine.

From Wikipedia:

According to Exodus 12:37–38, the Israelites numbered "about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children," plus many non-Israelites and livestock.

Numbers 1:46 gives a more precise total of 603,550 men aged 20 and up.[17] The 600,000, plus wives, children, the elderly, and the "mixed multitude" of non-Israelites would have numbered some 2 million people,[18] compared with an entire Egyptian population in 1250 BCE of around 3 to 3.5 million.[19] Marching ten abreast, and without accounting for livestock, they would have formed a line 150 miles long.[20] No evidence has been found that indicates Egypt ever suffered such a demographic and economic catastrophe or that the Sinai desert ever hosted (or could have hosted) these millions of people and their herds.[21]

If the story of The Exodus itself stretched the truth of that fish-tale from 1,500 people to 2 million people, that's reason enough to call 'bullshit' on the entire thing.

I wonder what other "facts" presented as history in the ancient stories are utter bullshit...

​

 

[AVG-JOE]

The bible is the true Word of God. Passover and the slavery of the Jews is a historical fact. Interesting - God didn't leave one Jew behind. Not one. They were ALL DELIVERED. The story has a prophetic tone to it when thinking of the scripture .......All Israel shall be saved! I love it.

The point of the article and the point of the thread is that few if any actual historians, including biblical historians, believe that The Exodus happened as described in The Torah. The story of The Exodus is questionable history at best. There is very little evidence to support it, far indeed it is from being a "historical fact".

The Bible is a collection of ancient stories of varying quality as literature, written, published and preserved by mere humans. If God is, He's WAY bigger than ALL of the ancient stories, let alone any 1, 2, or 3 of the competing collections of them. Until and unless God Himself picks one, all we have is our differing opinions of their value.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Haaretz is Israel's version of the New York Times and ... "It is known for its staunch left-liberal stance on domestic and foreign issues."
If the New York Times came out with an article saying the same thing ... I would have the same response ... So what, add it to the list of other crap they have gotten wrong?

.

All you can do is what you can do - examine the evidence and opinions yourself and determine what seems plausible to you.

God does not seem interested in sorting it out... our bloody history is proof of that.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Avg-Joe is not an expert, knows next to nothing except what he reads, and what he reads is slanted.

 

[BlackSand]

All you can do is what you can do - examine the evidence and opinions yourself and determine what seems plausible to you.

God does not seem interested in sorting it out... our bloody history is proof pf that.

To what purpose ... The Jews are not going to stop practicing Passover.
Passover doesn't require dragging people of differing religions out into the streets and beheading them.

Why would God feel the need to straighten out your mess?

.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Were Jews ever really slaves in Egypt, or is Passover a myth?

From the article, emphasis mine.

The reality is that there is no evidence whatsoever that the Jews were ever enslaved in Egypt. Yes, there's the story contained within the bible itself, but that's not a remotely historically admissible source. I'm talking about real proof; archeological evidence, state records and primary sources. Of these, nothing exists.

'No evidence WHATSOEVER...' That is a strong word in this context.

The story of The Passover is pretty much THE set of miracles that validates as God, The God of Abraham, as defined in The Torah, The New Testament and The Qur'an.

If the ancient story of "Passover" is fiction, what does that say of The God who is validated by that story?


Also from the article:

In fact, there's absolutely no more evidence to suggest that the story is true than there is in support of any of the Arab world's conspiracy theories and tall tales about Jews.

Is there any evidence of The Passover outside the writings of The Torah?

Anything's possible... What's plausible?

`​

Thought they'd excavated dormitories used to house the slaves recently?

"“After the conclusion of the treaty they left with their families and chattels, not fewer than two hundred and forty thousand people, and crossed the desert into Syria. Fearing the Assyrians, who dominated over Asia at that time, they built a city in the country which we now call Judea. It was large enough to contain this great number of men and was called Jerusalem.”
–Josephus, Against Apion 1.73.7, quoting Manetho’s Aegyptiaca"

"The expulsion of the Hyksos may not have been a single event, and many still read Manetho’s texts on the Hyksos expulsion as a record of the Israelites’ Exodus. After the Hyksos were defeated by Ahmose, some Hyksos people likely remained in Egypt, perhaps as a subjugated class. The Egyptian Queen Hatshepsut (1489–1469 B.C.E.) recorded the banishment of a group of Asiatics from Avaris, the former Hyksos capital. While this second expulsion would still have been centuries before the traditional date of the Exodus, there may exist parallels between these events and the Exodus narrative, or the earlier Biblical accounts of Abraham, Sarah and Lot’s own expulsion from Egypt in Genesis 12:19."
The Expulsion of the Hyksos Tel Habuwa excavations reveal the conquest of Tjaru by Ahmose I Biblical Archaeology Society

Of the many things I care about, evenets of 3500 years ago aren't among them.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Avg-Joe is not an expert, knows next to nothing except what he reads, and what he reads is slanted.

Dude... if you can point to the post where I claimed to be an expert, I'll kiss your ass on the fifty yard line of any game you buy the tickets for.

Like most EVERYTHING around here, this is just a simple conversation about an article that I for one found interesting enough to read.

And, like most everything around here, all you can do is what you can do - examine the evidence and opinions for yourself and determine what seems plausible to you.

This is NOT rocket science...

 

[AVG-JOE]

All you can do is what you can do - examine the evidence and opinions yourself and determine what seems plausible to you.

God does not seem interested in sorting it out... our bloody history is proof pf that.

To what purpose ... The Jews are not going to stop practicing Passover.
Passover doesn't require dragging people of differing religions out into the streets and beheading them.

Why would God feel the need to straighten out your mess?

.

Why does there have to be some violent and nefarious purpose behind every conversation?

Can't we just talk about stuff without there being some dark 'purpose'?

​

 

[BlackSand]

All you can do is what you can do - examine the evidence and opinions yourself and determine what seems plausible to you.

God does not seem interested in sorting it out... our bloody history is proof pf that.

To what purpose ... The Jews are not going to stop practicing Passover.
Passover doesn't require dragging people of differing religions out into the streets and beheading them.

Why would God feel the need to straighten out your mess?

.

Why does there have to be some violent and nefarious purpose behind every conversation?

Can't we just talk about stuff without there being some dark 'purpose'?

​

Of course you can talk about whatever you want.
You decide the discussion, make the comments and the "purpose" is up for grabs ... Or the lack thereof if that should be the case.

If you don't want the discussion to turn "dark" ... Then I would suggest staying away from terms like "our bloody history".

.