Were America's founding fathers?...

Dictionary: To·ry (tôr'ē, tōr'ē)

n., pl., -ries.

A member of a British political party, founded in 1689, that was the opposition party to the Whigs and has been known as the Conservative Party since about 1832.
A member of a Conservative Party, as in Canada.
An American who, during the period of the American Revolution, favored the British side. Also called Loyalist.
often tory A supporter of traditional political and social institutions against the forces of democratization or reform; a political conservative.
[Irish Gaelic tóraidhe, robber, from Old Irish tóir, pursuit.]

Tory: Definition, Synonyms from Answers.com
 
Classical liberals who valued liberty, property and privacy, a far cry from contemporary liberals who prize equality and government involvement in ever more aspects of life.

There are still classical liberals around. Just like there are still classical conservatives and classical libertarians around. They just aren't in control of their respective parties. Sadly, "neo" everything seems to be the fad for the last 30 years.

Yes. Please let's retire the neo prefix.

As for classical cons, I'm not sure the modern conservative movement is old enough yet to refer to it's adherents as classicists. Goldwater and Reagan haven't been gone that long, in the grand scheme of things anyway.

PS - Nor has WFB.
 
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Let's go dig them up and ask them. All we can do is guess at their intentions. I'm not real sure what they would say about our political state of affairs these days but I am willing to wager they would slink back into their graves feeling a bit ashamed at what we've done to their country.
 
Dictionary: To·ry (tôr'ē, tōr'ē)

n., pl., -ries.

A member of a British political party, founded in 1689, that was the opposition party to the Whigs and has been known as the Conservative Party since about 1832.
A member of a Conservative Party, as in Canada.
An American who, during the period of the American Revolution, favored the British side. Also called Loyalist.
often tory A supporter of traditional political and social institutions against the forces of democratization or reform; a political conservative.
[Irish Gaelic tóraidhe, robber, from Old Irish tóir, pursuit.]

Tory: Definition, Synonyms from Answers.com

As I said before, the nation was founded on classical liberal ideals. The Declaration of Independence and Articles of Confederation were perfect examples of classical liberal ideology. Conservative ideology would have been support for protectionism, central banking, bigger government, etc... We saw this come to the forefront with the Constitution, and the Federalist administrations of Washington and Adams under the designs of Alexander Hamilton. Progressivism wasn't around at the time. The first President who could have been considered somewhat Progressive would have been Abraham Lincoln. He was a statist who had no respect for the Constitution.
 
Let's go dig them up and ask them. All we can do is guess at their intentions. I'm not real sure what they would say about our political state of affairs these days but I am willing to wager they would slink back into their graves feeling a bit ashamed at what we've done to their country.

You really hate this country huh?
 
Dictionary: To·ry (tôr'ē, tōr'ē)

n., pl., -ries.

A member of a British political party, founded in 1689, that was the opposition party to the Whigs and has been known as the Conservative Party since about 1832.
A member of a Conservative Party, as in Canada.
An American who, during the period of the American Revolution, favored the British side. Also called Loyalist.
often tory A supporter of traditional political and social institutions against the forces of democratization or reform; a political conservative.
[Irish Gaelic tóraidhe, robber, from Old Irish tóir, pursuit.]

Tory: Definition, Synonyms from Answers.com

As I said before, the nation was founded on classical liberal ideals. The Declaration of Independence and Articles of Confederation were perfect examples of classical liberal ideology. Conservative ideology would have been support for protectionism, central banking, bigger government, etc... We saw this come to the forefront with the Constitution, and the Federalist administrations of Washington and Adams under the designs of Alexander Hamilton. Progressivism wasn't around at the time. The first President who could have been considered somewhat Progressive would have been Abraham Lincoln. He was a statist who had no respect for the Constitution.

Funny, is the GOP called the party of Lincoln?
 
Dictionary: To·ry (tôr'ē, tōr'ē)

n., pl., -ries.

A member of a British political party, founded in 1689, that was the opposition party to the Whigs and has been known as the Conservative Party since about 1832.
A member of a Conservative Party, as in Canada.
An American who, during the period of the American Revolution, favored the British side. Also called Loyalist.
often tory A supporter of traditional political and social institutions against the forces of democratization or reform; a political conservative.
[Irish Gaelic tóraidhe, robber, from Old Irish tóir, pursuit.]

Tory: Definition, Synonyms from Answers.com

As I said before, the nation was founded on classical liberal ideals. The Declaration of Independence and Articles of Confederation were perfect examples of classical liberal ideology. Conservative ideology would have been support for protectionism, central banking, bigger government, etc... We saw this come to the forefront with the Constitution, and the Federalist administrations of Washington and Adams under the designs of Alexander Hamilton. Progressivism wasn't around at the time. The first President who could have been considered somewhat Progressive would have been Abraham Lincoln. He was a statist who had no respect for the Constitution.

Funny, is the GOP called the party of Lincoln?

I have heard it called that.
 
Liberal
Progressive
or Conservative.

Put it in context of what each party were at the time.

I figure either liberal or progressive since conservatives wanted to stay with King George.

This is retarded on many levels, because those terms did not mean anything close to what they mean today.

Let's not piss on the graves of the founders by attempting to label them with ridiculous political nomenclature.
 
Liberal
Progressive
or Conservative.

Put it in context of what each party were at the time.

I figure either liberal or progressive since conservatives wanted to stay with King George.
Conservatives DID NOT want to stay with the King.

Most of them were capitalists who didn't like taxes.
 
They're all dead. Any of them that got in the Presidency took a giant crap on the Constitution. So it's all irrelevant as to what political spectrum they stood on.
 
Dogbert said:
They're all dead. Any of them that got in the Presidency took a giant crap on the Constitution. So it's all irrelevant as to what political spectrum they stood on.

It is, and it isn't. Knowing what they stood for gives those who are originalists insight into the Constitution and the intent behind it. Which of course is one of the main touchstones of originalist interpretation.

The problem is, the "classical liberals" of the Founders' days would most closely resemble the more moderate elements of today's Libertarian party rather than the modern liberal Progressive Democrat. The "conservatives" of the time would not be in line with either wing of today's GOP. And so on. Trying to place a modern partisan equivalent to their ideas is the irrrelevant part. It simply doesn't equate.
 
It is, and it isn't. Knowing what they stood for gives those who are originalists insight into the Constitution and the intent behind it. Which of course is one of the main touchstones of originalist interpretation.

The problem is, the "classical liberals" of the Founders' days would most closely resemble the more moderate elements of today's Libertarian party rather than the modern liberal Progressive Democrat. The "conservatives" of the time would not be in line with either wing of today's GOP. And so on. Trying to place a modern partisan equivalent to their ideas is the irrrelevant part. It simply doesn't equate.

Originalists have a agenda, just like anyone else. It's like Scalia who says he's a originalist. It's why I don't put much into things like that.

And of course it doesn't equate, but people will keep on trying. But of course, you'll have people on the right who say that anyone who is a Liberal today = a Fabian socialist without even asking the person where they stand on the issues.

If people want to waste their time playing semantics, it's their choice. Especially since many "Liberals" are not really Liberals (Obama, Reid, Pelosi, etc), and many so called "Conservatives" are not really Conservative in any true sense of the word (the entire GOP of today). I find myself to have a tendency to side with the modern day Libertarian party because they haven't quite yet been invaded by the hacks who do so because they feel the party has a shot at winning.

Though I can tell you in some states that the 3rd parties are a bit pathetic, especially considering the incompetence of those in charge on both sides of the aisle. Like my state for example.
 
It is, and it isn't. Knowing what they stood for gives those who are originalists insight into the Constitution and the intent behind it. Which of course is one of the main touchstones of originalist interpretation.

The problem is, the "classical liberals" of the Founders' days would most closely resemble the more moderate elements of today's Libertarian party rather than the modern liberal Progressive Democrat. The "conservatives" of the time would not be in line with either wing of today's GOP. And so on. Trying to place a modern partisan equivalent to their ideas is the irrrelevant part. It simply doesn't equate.

Originalists have a agenda, just like anyone else. It's like Scalia who says he's a originalist. It's why I don't put much into things like that.

And of course it doesn't equate, but people will keep on trying. But of course, you'll have people on the right who say that anyone who is a Liberal today = a Fabian socialist without even asking the person where they stand on the issues.

If people want to waste their time playing semantics, it's their choice. Especially since many "Liberals" are not really Liberals (Obama, Reid, Pelosi, etc), and many so called "Conservatives" are not really Conservative in any true sense of the word (the entire GOP of today). I find myself to have a tendency to side with the modern day Libertarian party because they haven't quite yet been invaded by the hacks who do so because they feel the party has a shot at winning.

Though I can tell you in some states that the 3rd parties are a bit pathetic, especially considering the incompetence of those in charge on both sides of the aisle. Like my state for example.

I'm not an originalist myself, but true originalism is a method not an agenda. You're correct that some people claim to be originalists but are in fact agenda-driven. Some people claim moderate pragmatism (my own dominant view) but don't understand what that really is either. It takes all kinds.

But I can understand why understanding the Founders' views is important to the true originalist. I may not agree with them, but if they're doing it right it's key to thier view of what the Constitution means. In that case, analyzing where the factions stood on the political spectrum is helpful. It provides context.

If you're not an originalist, nope - it doesn't really mean Jack in modern politics except as background for debate with your originalist opponents. :D
 
America's Founding Father George Washington was a guy that owned slaves.
And slavery was always wrong.
George was only about his own money.
And represents other Presidents like Bush Jr
who benefited finacially from war.

Baltimore Bob
 
Liberal
Progressive
or Conservative.

Put it in context of what each party were at the time.

I figure either liberal or progressive since conservatives wanted to stay with King George.
Conservatives DID NOT want to stay with the King.

Most of them were capitalists who didn't like taxes.

they quickly converted British to American taxes with the whiskey tax.
 
Liberal
Progressive
or Conservative.

Put it in context of what each party were at the time.

I figure either liberal or progressive since conservatives wanted to stay with King George.
Conservatives DID NOT want to stay with the King.

Most of them were capitalists who didn't like taxes.

they quickly converted British to American taxes with the whiskey tax.
They wanted their rights as Englishmen against a government they felt over taxed for things they didn't need or want and didn't listen to them.

Sound familar?
 

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