CDZ Welfare vs Charity

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Tommy Tainant, Jul 13, 2016.

  1. hauke
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    hauke VIP Member

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    2 choices :

    1. every human being got the right to enough land so he can produce by being a farmer enough food to sustain himself and his children. and earn enough money to pay for basic medical care

    a right to land. thats so 17 century

    2. every person got the right to enough money so they can buy themselfs a simple dwelling, enough food to survive and basic medical care.

    thats 21 century
    ##

    or you don t have the right to live you goto fight for it, kill me try to kill me i gota gun you got a gun lets fight

    thats america
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Hiryuu
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    Hiryuu Active Member

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    Having the right to something and being able to afford it are two things entirely different. Land, dwellings, food, medical care and even money are available to everyone. I think the point people miss is that nothing is free, and having a right to something doesn't mean you have it.

    Look at all the people who have a right to vote, who don't vote.
    Look at all the people who have a right to bear arms, but are unarmed.

    Having a right to something isn't what it takes to get it, and should be restricted to the idea that you can have it if you earn it. Either that or someone who has it gives it to you. I know it is a crazy idea, but I still think anyone can be all they want to be and have all they can manage if they accept the responsibility of getting it themselves instead of wait for someone to give it to them.
     
  3. Andylusion
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    Andylusion Gold Member

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    Once again, the title of the thread is what? "Courts vs. Charity"? No..... It's "Welfare vs Charity". Are courts a welfare program?

    Even so, we could easily cut taxes by more than half, and fund all the courts in the country.
     
  4. Andylusion
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    Andylusion Gold Member

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    Pretty easy to say "You are wrong and I'm not going to respond to your remarks".

    I don't really care about your opinion, when you can't prove it. You know, you are most probably the most loud, strong and wrong person I have nearly met in my life. I am not even going to take the time to respond to your remarks.

    Hey if that's a good enough argument for you.... then it two can play that game, eh? See you around.
     
  5. Andylusion
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    Andylusion Gold Member

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    Tommy.... people like you played that game before. You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Back in the 1990s... we had roughly 28 Million people on food stamps. The Republicans in Congress pushed through welfare reform, which cut off food stamps to millions of people. The food stamp enrollment dropped from 27 Million to roughly 16 Million. Almost in half.

    Did people roll over and die? Where they starving on the streets?

    No, instead people simply.... got a job. Shockingly being hungry is a great motivator for people to work. And they did.

    People stopped standing around waiting for others to fix their lives, and instead got off their butts, and started working.

    There was no massive starvation. No mass graves filled with the dead of those who were kicked off food stamps. It didn't happen. Every time you start talking about how cutting food stamps and welfare would result in people dying.... you are just wrong. Flat out, you are wrong.
     
  6. Andylusion
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    Andylusion Gold Member

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    Ridiculous. I'd tell you go live in a country built on those principals, but the Soviet Union no longer exists.

    So you'll have to move to a country that is moving toward that system, and I only know of one, and that's Venezuela.

    Every country that adopted the socialist belief system is now moving away from it. It doesn't work. Your system, does not work. You can say how much it should, how much it ought to, and how much you want it to.... but the fact is, it doesn't.

    The Soviets were eating each other, under your system of "to each according to their need". Apparently they were having their needs met so much, they needed a fork and knife when company came over for dinner. Jeffery Dahmer would be proud.
     
  7. Tommy Tainant
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    Tommy Tainant Gold Member

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    Your argument works as a critique of the scale of it but not its necessity.

    I would argue that your approach to welfare would lead to mass civil unrest, increased crime and the breakdown of society.

    So in that light you benefit enormously from welfare.
     
  8. Andylusion
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    Andylusion Gold Member

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    Do you realize the kind of argument you are making? If I don't give people what they want, they'll get upset and cause problems?

    Have you never had kids? Did you ever think "oh I better give timmy everything he wants, or he'll get mad", so you just let your kids stay up all night, eat cake and ice cream all day long?

    Do you not hear what you are saying? Your idea of "civilized society" is working people being held hostage by an ultimatum, by the non-working. That's effectively what you said. If working people like me, don't pay trillions in taxes, to fund welfare, then those people will get angry and burn the country down. That's civilized society in your book?

    Dude, that's appeasement. I figured someone from the UK, would be smarter than this. If you don't give Hitler everything he wants, then there will be war, right?

    Why not use that same logic for criminals. Just give criminals everything they want, or they might get mad and hurt people. That's civilized society?

    If that's your version of civilized society, where the threat of violence is grounds for confiscating my rightfully earned money, and giving it to the people making that threat..... then shouldn't it work both ways?

    So here's my ultimatum: I get to keep my own property, or when you riot, I'm going to load up my guns, and blow a hole in ever person who threatens my property. I'm going to elect anyone who promises to arm the police with AR-15s, and orders to shoot to kill. No civil unrest. No mass crime. You want to start breaking windows, and stealing stuff, you get to go meet Jesus.

    See, I gotta tell you, I was raised differently. My father had some rules in his household. When he gave you something that you didn't earn, and you didn't deserve, he expected you to show gratitude. And if I didn't show that gratitude for the sacrifices he made, that benefited me, then he would deny me what little I had. No dinner tonight. No leaving my room. No video games, no friends over, nothing.

    He apparently is now is now a dying breed of good men, who stood up for what was right.

    So when you say "if you don't give them free stuff, they'll get angry and cause problems", that right there, is the absolute best, number one top of the list reason, to end all welfare and food stamps completely. If these people are not grateful for the sacrifice we make that benefits them, then absolutely cut them off and let them die. If they want to riot, just let them know I have 150 rounds of 9mm, and I do target practice.
     

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