Welfare? The Reason For Black Family Break-Up

[Foxfyre]

Sorry bout that,

I can only speak for myself and other men that I know, but being gainfully employed and supporting a family is one of the most self satisfying things that a man can do. it is also a powerful persuasion to modify your behavior to wards being civil and less confrontational over small things.

welfare strips away that motivation, and the necessity of doing the hundreds of things required to help run a family. when you have nothing to do, nothing seems important.

1. Well said.
2. I will go a step further and say, if you have no point in life, you have failed in life.
3. Raising a family yourself, as a man, builds not only you up, but the family individually.
4. Seeking a hand out not only removes you as the source of strength, and over all well being, it tears down those whom have to live under it.
5. Its sound doctrine to learn to work, for working is good for the soul, and the souls you are providing for.
6. If you are not willing to work, then you shouldn't be ready and able to eat at the expense of others.
7. There are always exceptions.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

I can't improve on the commentary here. I would add to it by saying that children who grow up seeing mom or dad get a government check instead of one they have legitimately earned too often affects the child in a very negative way. Children should grow up seeing Mom and/or Dad get up in the morning, get cleaned up, get appropriately dressed, and be engaged in activities that strengthen and benefit the community as a whole. And they should see Mom and/or Dad rewarded with a paycheck for what they work for and that is the way society should be.

A sense of entitlement, a sense of the world owing us something, a sense of access to what we want or need being provided just because we are poor or black or otherwise disadvantaged in some way is demoralizing, demeaning, and damaging to the person and can encourage him or her to never aspire to take his/her rightful place in society and become all he or she can be.

 

[High_Gravity]

I can only speak for myself and other men that I know, but being gainfully employed and supporting a family is one of the most self satisfying things that a man can do. it is also a powerful persuasion to modify your behaviour towards being civil and less confrontational over small things.

welfare strips away that motivation, and the necessity of doing the hundreds of things required to help run a family. when you have nothing to do, nothing seems important.

This is a good post.

 

[Huey]

Sorry bout that,

I can only speak for myself and other men that I know, but being gainfully employed and supporting a family is one of the most self satisfying things that a man can do. it is also a powerful persuasion to modify your behavior to wards being civil and less confrontational over small things.

welfare strips away that motivation, and the necessity of doing the hundreds of things required to help run a family. when you have nothing to do, nothing seems important.

1. Well said.
2. I will go a step further and say, if you have no point in life, you have failed in life.
3. Raising a family yourself, as a man, builds not only you up, but the family individually.
4. Seeking a hand out not only removes you as the source of strength, and over all well being, it tears down those whom have to live under it.
5. Its sound doctrine to learn to work, for working is good for the soul, and the souls you are providing for.
6. If you are not willing to work, then you shouldn't be ready and able to eat at the expense of others.
7. There are always exceptions.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

I can't improve on the commentary here. I would add to it by saying that children who grow up seeing mom or dad get a government check instead of one they have legitimately earned too often affects the child in a very negative way. Children should grow up seeing Mom and/or Dad get up in the morning, get cleaned up, get appropriately dressed, and be engaged in activities that strengthen and benefit the community as a whole. And they should see Mom and/or Dad rewarded with a paycheck for what they work for and that is the way society should be.

A sense of entitlement, a sense of the world owing us something, a sense of access to what we want or need being provided just because we are poor or black or otherwise disadvantaged in some way is demoralizing, demeaning, and damaging to the person and can encourage him or her to never aspire to take his/her rightful place in society and become all he or she can be.

These are all good answers,but as for that Govt.check what about Social security.I have worked 48 years and am now receiving SS in my retirement.
Does that mean we who are retired and have kids are to be subjugated because we are receiving help from the govt. of which we paid into all our working lives.
Some of us who have kids of which are living at home with us because they lost their jobs and cant get another are not to be blamed,so give us a break will ya.

 

[Huey]

Sorry bout that,

I can only speak for myself and other men that I know, but being gainfully employed and supporting a family is one of the most self satisfying things that a man can do. it is also a powerful persuasion to modify your behavior to wards being civil and less confrontational over small things.

welfare strips away that motivation, and the necessity of doing the hundreds of things required to help run a family. when you have nothing to do, nothing seems important.

1. Well said.
2. I will go a step further and say, if you have no point in life, you have failed in life.
3. Raising a family yourself, as a man, builds not only you up, but the family individually.
4. Seeking a hand out not only removes you as the source of strength, and over all well being, it tears down those whom have to live under it.
5. Its sound doctrine to learn to work, for working is good for the soul, and the souls you are providing for.
6. If you are not willing to work, then you shouldn't be ready and able to eat at the expense of others.
7. There are always exceptions.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Turn the damn radio off,dont buy any listening devices for your kids.Take control of your family back.Welfare has nothing to do with "Rap".

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

2. During slavery, where marriage was forbidden, most black children lived in biological two-parent families. In ¾ of slave families, all of the children had the same mother and father. Herbert Gutman, “ The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom: 1750-1925,” p. 10.

Not surprised to see how much you like slavery.

 

[PoliticalChic]

2. During slavery, where marriage was forbidden, most black children lived in biological two-parent families. In ¾ of slave families, all of the children had the same mother and father. Herbert Gutman, “ The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom: 1750-1925,” p. 10.

Not surprised to see how much you like slavery.

Poo....you probably don't realize how stupid this post makes you appear....

....after all, to what fact is it related?
What statement?
What antecedent led to your conclusion?

See what I'm gettin' at?


Now...I'm just lookin' out for you, poo...after all, I don't believe you're a blithering idiot...
....but what is my single opinion against that of millions....

 

[Pheonixops]

1. Some argue that today’s weak black-family structure is a ‘legacy’ of slavery. But this view loses credibility when one examines evidence from the past.

2. During slavery, where marriage was forbidden, most black children lived in biological two-parent families. In ¾ of slave families, all of the children had the same mother and father. Herbert Gutman, “ The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom: 1750-1925,” p. 10.

a. In NYC, 1925, 85% of kin-related black households were two-parent households. Gutman, Ibid, ix.


3. Before anyone attempt to explain today’s black family in terms of slavery and discrimination, realize that years ago there were only slight differences in family structure between racial groups. The % of nuclear families were: black (75.2), Irish (82.2), German (84.5), and naïve white American (73.1). Kenneth L. Kusmer, “From Reconstruction to the Great Migration,1877-1917.” Vol 4, part II, p. 72-96.

4. Ex-slave families were more likely than free-born to be two-parent families. Furstenberg, Jr., Hershberg, and Modell, “The Origins of the Female-Headed Black Family: the Impact of the Urban Experience,” p.211-233. 'But it is a fine place to make money': migration and African-American families in Cleveland, 1915-1929 - page 12 | Journal of Social History

5. “Going back a hundred years, when blacks were just one generation out of slavery, we find that census data of that era showed that a slightly higher percentage of black adults had married than white adults. This fact remained true in every census from 1890 to 1940.” Sowell, “The Vision,” p. 81 (Prior to 1890, the question was not part of the census.)



6. Coupled with the dramatic breakdown of black family structure has been the astonishing growth of illegitimacy: 19% in 1940, skyrocketing in the late 60’s, to 68% in 2000- and over 80% in some cities. See the National Center for Health Statistics, National Vital Statistics Report, vol. 50

"...skyrocketing in the late 60’s,..."
LBJ.....'War on Poverty'....


7. So, if not slavery or discrimination, where to look for the root of the problem? Black propensity? Genetics? Racial differences? Clearly the stats above show this not to be the case. Get ready……studies show that welfare programs are a major contributor to behavioral poverty.

8. Proof? Sure. The government conducted a study, 1971-1978 known as the Seattle-Denver Income Maintenance Experiment, or SIME-DIME, in which low income families were given a guaranteed income, a welfare package with everything liberal policy makers could hope for. Result: for every dollar of extra welfare given, low income recipients reduced their labor by 80 cents. http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/bitstreams/12794.pdf

a. Further results: dissolution of families: “This conclusion was unambiguously unfavorable to advocates of a negative income tax that would cover married couples, for two important reasons. First, increased
marital breakups among the poor would increase the numbers on
welfare and the amount of transfer payments, principally because the
separated wife and children would receive higher transfer payments.
Second, marital dissolutions and the usual accompanying absence of
fathers from households with children are generally considered unfavorable outcomes regardless of whether or not the welfare rolls increase.” http://www.bos.frb.org/economic/conf/conf30/conf30c.pdf

b. “When families received guaranteed income at 90% of the poverty level, there was a 43% increase in black family dissolution and a 63% increase in white family dissolution. At 125% of the poverty levels, dissolutions were 75% and 40%.” Robert B. Carleson, “Government Is The Problem,” p. 57.



9. Despite frequent assertions to the contrary, many seemingly intractable poroblems encountered by a significant number of black Americans do not result from racial discrimination, but rather from the policies, regulations, and restrictions emanating from federal, state, and local government.


From “Race & Economics,” by Walter E. Williams.

Starting with The Great Society, there has been a massive attempt to integrate blacks into American society. It has included large transfers of wealth, government assistance programs, and affirmative action to compel the private sector to get on board. Not to mention a gargantuan public relations and educational campaign to convince all Americans that the races are exactly equal in respect to, among other things, cognitive ability. To blame the American government for continued black dysfunction and poverty is a little like blaming the weatherman for the rain.

Shelby Steele, like Lyndon Johnson, believes that all we have to do is tinker with the black American culture, pull them up to the same starting line as whites, and they will be able to keep up in the race to succeed. What evidence does he have to show that this is possible? Does he really believe that America is unique, the only place where blacks fall behind in achievement? Black American families are, by leaps and bounds, the wealthiest blacks in the world, a fact Shelby Steele must be familiar with. Can he provide even a single example of a modern successful black society outside of America to suggest that this country is an aberration, and that American blacks are victims of government ineptitude? No black country in Sub-Saharan Africa has a welfare system anywhere approaching ours that would have any kind of corrupting influence on black families, and yet they earn on average about $2 a day, mostly from subsistence farming. If the American welfare system causes blacks to be economically and educationally impoverished let’s wean them off of it and see what happens. Even if it restores the black nuclear family, I predict it would not change the black poverty rate.

Interesting points and good questions. This is why I advocate focusing on the INDIVIDUAL.
If someone read what you were saying really fast or scanned it, I can see that they may have a problem with what you posted.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. Some argue that today’s weak black-family structure is a ‘legacy’ of slavery. But this view loses credibility when one examines evidence from the past.

2. During slavery, where marriage was forbidden, most black children lived in biological two-parent families. In ¾ of slave families, all of the children had the same mother and father. Herbert Gutman, “ The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom: 1750-1925,” p. 10.

a. In NYC, 1925, 85% of kin-related black households were two-parent households. Gutman, Ibid, ix.


3. Before anyone attempt to explain today’s black family in terms of slavery and discrimination, realize that years ago there were only slight differences in family structure between racial groups. The % of nuclear families were: black (75.2), Irish (82.2), German (84.5), and naïve white American (73.1). Kenneth L. Kusmer, “From Reconstruction to the Great Migration,1877-1917.” Vol 4, part II, p. 72-96.

4. Ex-slave families were more likely than free-born to be two-parent families. Furstenberg, Jr., Hershberg, and Modell, “The Origins of the Female-Headed Black Family: the Impact of the Urban Experience,” p.211-233. 'But it is a fine place to make money': migration and African-American families in Cleveland, 1915-1929 - page 12 | Journal of Social History

5. “Going back a hundred years, when blacks were just one generation out of slavery, we find that census data of that era showed that a slightly higher percentage of black adults had married than white adults. This fact remained true in every census from 1890 to 1940.” Sowell, “The Vision,” p. 81 (Prior to 1890, the question was not part of the census.)



6. Coupled with the dramatic breakdown of black family structure has been the astonishing growth of illegitimacy: 19% in 1940, skyrocketing in the late 60’s, to 68% in 2000- and over 80% in some cities. See the National Center for Health Statistics, National Vital Statistics Report, vol. 50

"...skyrocketing in the late 60’s,..."
LBJ.....'War on Poverty'....


7. So, if not slavery or discrimination, where to look for the root of the problem? Black propensity? Genetics? Racial differences? Clearly the stats above show this not to be the case. Get ready……studies show that welfare programs are a major contributor to behavioral poverty.

8. Proof? Sure. The government conducted a study, 1971-1978 known as the Seattle-Denver Income Maintenance Experiment, or SIME-DIME, in which low income families were given a guaranteed income, a welfare package with everything liberal policy makers could hope for. Result: for every dollar of extra welfare given, low income recipients reduced their labor by 80 cents. http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/bitstreams/12794.pdf

a. Further results: dissolution of families: “This conclusion was unambiguously unfavorable to advocates of a negative income tax that would cover married couples, for two important reasons. First, increased
marital breakups among the poor would increase the numbers on
welfare and the amount of transfer payments, principally because the
separated wife and children would receive higher transfer payments.
Second, marital dissolutions and the usual accompanying absence of
fathers from households with children are generally considered unfavorable outcomes regardless of whether or not the welfare rolls increase.” http://www.bos.frb.org/economic/conf/conf30/conf30c.pdf

b. “When families received guaranteed income at 90% of the poverty level, there was a 43% increase in black family dissolution and a 63% increase in white family dissolution. At 125% of the poverty levels, dissolutions were 75% and 40%.” Robert B. Carleson, “Government Is The Problem,” p. 57.



9. Despite frequent assertions to the contrary, many seemingly intractable poroblems encountered by a significant number of black Americans do not result from racial discrimination, but rather from the policies, regulations, and restrictions emanating from federal, state, and local government.


From “Race & Economics,” by Walter E. Williams.

Starting with The Great Society, there has been a massive attempt to integrate blacks into American society. It has included large transfers of wealth, government assistance programs, and affirmative action to compel the private sector to get on board. Not to mention a gargantuan public relations and educational campaign to convince all Americans that the races are exactly equal in respect to, among other things, cognitive ability. To blame the American government for continued black dysfunction and poverty is a little like blaming the weatherman for the rain.

Shelby Steele, like Lyndon Johnson, believes that all we have to do is tinker with the black American culture, pull them up to the same starting line as whites, and they will be able to keep up in the race to succeed. What evidence does he have to show that this is possible? Does he really believe that America is unique, the only place where blacks fall behind in achievement? Black American families are, by leaps and bounds, the wealthiest blacks in the world, a fact Shelby Steele must be familiar with. Can he provide even a single example of a modern successful black society outside of America to suggest that this country is an aberration, and that American blacks are victims of government ineptitude? No black country in Sub-Saharan Africa has a welfare system anywhere approaching ours that would have any kind of corrupting influence on black families, and yet they earn on average about $2 a day, mostly from subsistence farming. If the American welfare system causes blacks to be economically and educationally impoverished let’s wean them off of it and see what happens. Even if it restores the black nuclear family, I predict it would not change the black poverty rate.

"... tinker with the black American culture, pull them up to the same starting line as whites, ..."

No, he didn't.

What Johnson said was “You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say, ‘you are free to compete with all the others,’ and still justly believe that you have been completely fair.”

I'd like to see a link showing that Shelby Steele states what you say he does.

 

[Huey]

1. Some argue that today’s weak black-family structure is a ‘legacy’ of slavery. But this view loses credibility when one examines evidence from the past.

2. During slavery, where marriage was forbidden, most black children lived in biological two-parent families. In ¾ of slave families, all of the children had the same mother and father. Herbert Gutman, “ The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom: 1750-1925,” p. 10.

a. In NYC, 1925, 85% of kin-related black households were two-parent households. Gutman, Ibid, ix.


3. Before anyone attempt to explain today’s black family in terms of slavery and discrimination, realize that years ago there were only slight differences in family structure between racial groups. The % of nuclear families were: black (75.2), Irish (82.2), German (84.5), and naïve white American (73.1). Kenneth L. Kusmer, “From Reconstruction to the Great Migration,1877-1917.” Vol 4, part II, p. 72-96.

4. Ex-slave families were more likely than free-born to be two-parent families. Furstenberg, Jr., Hershberg, and Modell, “The Origins of the Female-Headed Black Family: the Impact of the Urban Experience,” p.211-233. 'But it is a fine place to make money': migration and African-American families in Cleveland, 1915-1929 - page 12 | Journal of Social History

5. “Going back a hundred years, when blacks were just one generation out of slavery, we find that census data of that era showed that a slightly higher percentage of black adults had married than white adults. This fact remained true in every census from 1890 to 1940.” Sowell, “The Vision,” p. 81 (Prior to 1890, the question was not part of the census.)



6. Coupled with the dramatic breakdown of black family structure has been the astonishing growth of illegitimacy: 19% in 1940, skyrocketing in the late 60’s, to 68% in 2000- and over 80% in some cities. See the National Center for Health Statistics, National Vital Statistics Report, vol. 50

"...skyrocketing in the late 60’s,..."
LBJ.....'War on Poverty'....


7. So, if not slavery or discrimination, where to look for the root of the problem? Black propensity? Genetics? Racial differences? Clearly the stats above show this not to be the case. Get ready……studies show that welfare programs are a major contributor to behavioral poverty.

8. Proof? Sure. The government conducted a study, 1971-1978 known as the Seattle-Denver Income Maintenance Experiment, or SIME-DIME, in which low income families were given a guaranteed income, a welfare package with everything liberal policy makers could hope for. Result: for every dollar of extra welfare given, low income recipients reduced their labor by 80 cents. http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/bitstreams/12794.pdf

a. Further results: dissolution of families: “This conclusion was unambiguously unfavorable to advocates of a negative income tax that would cover married couples, for two important reasons. First, increased
marital breakups among the poor would increase the numbers on
welfare and the amount of transfer payments, principally because the
separated wife and children would receive higher transfer payments.
Second, marital dissolutions and the usual accompanying absence of
fathers from households with children are generally considered unfavorable outcomes regardless of whether or not the welfare rolls increase.” http://www.bos.frb.org/economic/conf/conf30/conf30c.pdf

b. “When families received guaranteed income at 90% of the poverty level, there was a 43% increase in black family dissolution and a 63% increase in white family dissolution. At 125% of the poverty levels, dissolutions were 75% and 40%.” Robert B. Carleson, “Government Is The Problem,” p. 57.



9. Despite frequent assertions to the contrary, many seemingly intractable poroblems encountered by a significant number of black Americans do not result from racial discrimination, but rather from the policies, regulations, and restrictions emanating from federal, state, and local government.


From “Race & Economics,” by Walter E. Williams.

Starting with The Great Society, there has been a massive attempt to integrate blacks into American society. It has included large transfers of wealth, government assistance programs, and affirmative action to compel the private sector to get on board. Not to mention a gargantuan public relations and educational campaign to convince all Americans that the races are exactly equal in respect to, among other things, cognitive ability. To blame the American government for continued black dysfunction and poverty is a little like blaming the weatherman for the rain.

Shelby Steele, like Lyndon Johnson, believes that all we have to do is tinker with the black American culture, pull them up to the same starting line as whites, and they will be able to keep up in the race to succeed. What evidence does he have to show that this is possible? Does he really believe that America is unique, the only place where blacks fall behind in achievement? Black American families are, by leaps and bounds, the wealthiest blacks in the world, a fact Shelby Steele must be familiar with. Can he provide even a single example of a modern successful black society outside of America to suggest that this country is an aberration, and that American blacks are victims of government ineptitude? No black country in Sub-Saharan Africa has a welfare system anywhere approaching ours that would have any kind of corrupting influence on black families, and yet they earn on average about $2 a day, mostly from subsistence farming. If the American welfare system causes blacks to be economically and educationally impoverished let’s wean them off of it and see what happens. Even if it restores the black nuclear family, I predict it would not change the black poverty rate.

"... tinker with the black American culture, pull them up to the same starting line as whites, ..."

No, he didn't.

What Johnson said was “You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say, ‘you are free to compete with all the others,’ and still justly believe that you have been completely fair.”

I'd like to see a link showing that Shelby Steele states what you say he does.

A lot of slave owners destroyed the Black family by selling off the children.

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,



1. An American Negro has endless opportunity in America, simple cast your eyes to Africa and look around and you will see opportunity dries up.
2. So in conclusion, Negros who escaped Africa either as a slave or freeman, over the millennium did well for themselves and their heritage from that day forward.
3. Why so many can't get any traction economically is indeed a mystery, they have every advantage, and yet still come up snake eyes.
4. If anything if I were to guess I would have to say those whom never get traction economically have to be cursed, being into the occult, voodoo, witchcraft, or all three.
5. Sometimes a curse can go generation-ally.
6. This would be my explanation.
7. We have many Negro's who come to my church, and if anything they do seem blessed, and not cursed, and from the way they dress and the cars they drive, they appear to be successful.
8. Those spinning their heads to rap music don't seem to go to my church, big chrome rims, and music blaring, and that is a good thing.



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[jillian]

1. Some argue that today’s weak black-family structure is a ‘legacy’ of slavery. But this view loses credibility when one examines evidence from the past.

notwithstanding the race-baiting and the high-fiving you got for it...

there are far more reasons than "welfare" for issues in the black community...

you can start with poverty... which initially came from lack of education and opportunity... separate but equal if you will, not being equal.

you can also add a lack of value on education in some quarters because the truly successful people in high-poverty areas aren't successful because of education

you can also add the systematic removal of male blacks from the community by means of a purported "war on drugs" which, amazingly, impacts black youth far more intensely than it does white youth despite the fact that drug use in the black community is essentially no greater than drug use in the white community.

then try getting a job if you have a criminal record.

if you have a criminal record (e.g., for drugs) and your family is in public housing, their benefits and housing are cut off if you remain in the apartment... which separates teens at their most vulnerable from their parents.

but you can pretend it's welfare if you want to.

 

[squeeze berry]

1. Some argue that today’s weak black-family structure is a ‘legacy’ of slavery. But this view loses credibility when one examines evidence from the past.

2. During slavery, where marriage was forbidden, most black children lived in biological two-parent families. In ¾ of slave families, all of the children had the same mother and father. Herbert Gutman, “ The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom: 1750-1925,” p. 10.

a. In NYC, 1925, 85% of kin-related black households were two-parent households. Gutman, Ibid, ix.


3. Before anyone attempt to explain today’s black family in terms of slavery and discrimination, realize that years ago there were only slight differences in family structure between racial groups. The % of nuclear families were: black (75.2), Irish (82.2), German (84.5), and naïve white American (73.1). Kenneth L. Kusmer, “From Reconstruction to the Great Migration,1877-1917.” Vol 4, part II, p. 72-96.

4. Ex-slave families were more likely than free-born to be two-parent families. Furstenberg, Jr., Hershberg, and Modell, “The Origins of the Female-Headed Black Family: the Impact of the Urban Experience,” p.211-233. 'But it is a fine place to make money': migration and African-American families in Cleveland, 1915-1929 - page 12 | Journal of Social History

5. “Going back a hundred years, when blacks were just one generation out of slavery, we find that census data of that era showed that a slightly higher percentage of black adults had married than white adults. This fact remained true in every census from 1890 to 1940.” Sowell, “The Vision,” p. 81 (Prior to 1890, the question was not part of the census.)



6. Coupled with the dramatic breakdown of black family structure has been the astonishing growth of illegitimacy: 19% in 1940, skyrocketing in the late 60’s, to 68% in 2000- and over 80% in some cities. See the National Center for Health Statistics, National Vital Statistics Report, vol. 50

"...skyrocketing in the late 60’s,..."
LBJ.....'War on Poverty'....


7. So, if not slavery or discrimination, where to look for the root of the problem? Black propensity? Genetics? Racial differences? Clearly the stats above show this not to be the case. Get ready……studies show that welfare programs are a major contributor to behavioral poverty.

8. Proof? Sure. The government conducted a study, 1971-1978 known as the Seattle-Denver Income Maintenance Experiment, or SIME-DIME, in which low income families were given a guaranteed income, a welfare package with everything liberal policy makers could hope for. Result: for every dollar of extra welfare given, low income recipients reduced their labor by 80 cents. http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/bitstreams/12794.pdf

a. Further results: dissolution of families: “This conclusion was unambiguously unfavorable to advocates of a negative income tax that would cover married couples, for two important reasons. First, increased
marital breakups among the poor would increase the numbers on
welfare and the amount of transfer payments, principally because the
separated wife and children would receive higher transfer payments.
Second, marital dissolutions and the usual accompanying absence of
fathers from households with children are generally considered unfavorable outcomes regardless of whether or not the welfare rolls increase.” http://www.bos.frb.org/economic/conf/conf30/conf30c.pdf

b. “When families received guaranteed income at 90% of the poverty level, there was a 43% increase in black family dissolution and a 63% increase in white family dissolution. At 125% of the poverty levels, dissolutions were 75% and 40%.” Robert B. Carleson, “Government Is The Problem,” p. 57.



9. Despite frequent assertions to the contrary, many seemingly intractable poroblems encountered by a significant number of black Americans do not result from racial discrimination, but rather from the policies, regulations, and restrictions emanating from federal, state, and local government.


From “Race & Economics,” by Walter E. Williams.

A lot of the disintegration of the Black family is because many Black men do not look towards the future. In their twenties, they figure in a few years they will either be in prison or dead. The problem stems from a hell of a lot more than welfare.

or perhaps all they are concerned about is their own selfish desires

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. Some argue that today’s weak black-family structure is a ‘legacy’ of slavery. But this view loses credibility when one examines evidence from the past.

notwithstanding the race-baiting and the high-fiving you got for it...

there are far more reasons than "welfare" for issues in the black community...

you can start with poverty... which initially came from lack of education and opportunity... separate but equal if you will, not being equal.

you can also add a lack of value on education in some quarters because the truly successful people in high-poverty areas aren't successful because of education

you can also add the systematic removal of male blacks from the community by means of a purported "war on drugs" which, amazingly, impacts black youth far more intensely than it does white youth despite the fact that drug use in the black community is essentially no greater than drug use in the white community.

then try getting a job if you have a criminal record.

if you have a criminal record (e.g., for drugs) and your family is in public housing, their benefits and housing are cut off if you remain in the apartment... which separates teens at their most vulnerable from their parents.

but you can pretend it's welfare if you want to.

Based on your political perspective, this post was a pretty thoughtful response to the OP.

Let me give a general answer....

...if one believes in the ability of our black brothers and sisters, it seems logical to subscribe to the view of Fredrick Douglass, who said the following in April, 1865. His speech was called “What the Black Man Wants."


"Everybody has asked the question, and they learned to ask it early of the abolitionists, "What shall we do with the Negro?" I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us!

Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us. Do nothing with us! If the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are worm-eaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall!

I am not for tying or fastening them on the tree in any way, except by nature's plan, and if they will not stay there, let them fall. And if the Negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall also. All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone!

If you see him on his way to school, let him alone, don't disturb him! If you see him going to the dinner table at a hotel, let him go! If you see him going to the ballot- box, let him alone, don't disturb him! [Applause.] If you see him going into a work-shop, just let him alone,--your interference is doing him a positive injury.”


Does it seem to you that Liberal programs have followed that prescription?

 

[Moonglow]

well I am sure that welfare is some of the cuase, but there is also other factors , drugs, ability to live outside the seperate but equal societies. But I agree that babies for govt. funds needs to be stopped.

 

[Moonglow]

1. Some argue that today’s weak black-family structure is a ‘legacy’ of slavery. But this view loses credibility when one examines evidence from the past.

notwithstanding the race-baiting and the high-fiving you got for it...

there are far more reasons than "welfare" for issues in the black community...

you can start with poverty... which initially came from lack of education and opportunity... separate but equal if you will, not being equal.

you can also add a lack of value on education in some quarters because the truly successful people in high-poverty areas aren't successful because of education

you can also add the systematic removal of male blacks from the community by means of a purported "war on drugs" which, amazingly, impacts black youth far more intensely than it does white youth despite the fact that drug use in the black community is essentially no greater than drug use in the white community.

then try getting a job if you have a criminal record.

if you have a criminal record (e.g., for drugs) and your family is in public housing, their benefits and housing are cut off if you remain in the apartment... which separates teens at their most vulnerable from their parents.

but you can pretend it's welfare if you want to.

Based on your political perspective, this post was a pretty thoughtful response to the OP.

Let me give a general answer....

...if one believes in the ability of our black brothers and sisters, it seems logical to subscribe to the view of Fredrick Douglass, who said the following in April, 1865. His speech was called “What the Black Man Wants."


"Everybody has asked the question, and they learned to ask it early of the abolitionists, "What shall we do with the Negro?" I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us!

Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us. Do nothing with us! If the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are worm-eaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall!

I am not for tying or fastening them on the tree in any way, except by nature's plan, and if they will not stay there, let them fall. And if the Negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall also. All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone!

If you see him on his way to school, let him alone, don't disturb him! If you see him going to the dinner table at a hotel, let him go! If you see him going to the ballot- box, let him alone, don't disturb him! [Applause.] If you see him going into a work-shop, just let him alone,--your interference is doing him a positive injury.”


Does it seem to you that Liberal programs have followed that prescription?

yes, but years of oppression by society and race hating ruined what Douglas stated.

 

[Jroc]

notwithstanding the race-baiting and the high-fiving you got for it...

there are far more reasons than "welfare" for issues in the black community...

you can start with poverty... which initially came from lack of education and opportunity... separate but equal if you will, not being equal.

you can also add a lack of value on education in some quarters because the truly successful people in high-poverty areas aren't successful because of education

you can also add the systematic removal of male blacks from the community by means of a purported "war on drugs" which, amazingly, impacts black youth far more intensely than it does white youth despite the fact that drug use in the black community is essentially no greater than drug use in the white community.

then try getting a job if you have a criminal record.

if you have a criminal record (e.g., for drugs) and your family is in public housing, their benefits and housing are cut off if you remain in the apartment... which separates teens at their most vulnerable from their parents.

but you can pretend it's welfare if you want to.

Based on your political perspective, this post was a pretty thoughtful response to the OP.

Let me give a general answer....

...if one believes in the ability of our black brothers and sisters, it seems logical to subscribe to the view of Fredrick Douglass, who said the following in April, 1865. His speech was called “What the Black Man Wants."


"Everybody has asked the question, and they learned to ask it early of the abolitionists, "What shall we do with the Negro?" I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us!

Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us. Do nothing with us! If the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are worm-eaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall!

I am not for tying or fastening them on the tree in any way, except by nature's plan, and if they will not stay there, let them fall. And if the Negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall also. All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone!

If you see him on his way to school, let him alone, don't disturb him! If you see him going to the dinner table at a hotel, let him go! If you see him going to the ballot- box, let him alone, don't disturb him! [Applause.] If you see him going into a work-shop, just let him alone,--your interference is doing him a positive injury.”


Does it seem to you that Liberal programs have followed that prescription?

yes, but years of oppression by society and race hating ruined what Douglas stated.

Individual liberty is what Douglass was referring to, something liberals do not believe in. when government takes away the liberty of the individual in favor of some kind of government mandated "social Justice” they screw everything up "Leave him alone" let the black man succeed or fail based on his own merit, which is the conservative way. The liberal big government way is slavery, which is what the democrat party as always stood for

 

[PoliticalChic]

notwithstanding the race-baiting and the high-fiving you got for it...

there are far more reasons than "welfare" for issues in the black community...

you can start with poverty... which initially came from lack of education and opportunity... separate but equal if you will, not being equal.

you can also add a lack of value on education in some quarters because the truly successful people in high-poverty areas aren't successful because of education

you can also add the systematic removal of male blacks from the community by means of a purported "war on drugs" which, amazingly, impacts black youth far more intensely than it does white youth despite the fact that drug use in the black community is essentially no greater than drug use in the white community.

then try getting a job if you have a criminal record.

if you have a criminal record (e.g., for drugs) and your family is in public housing, their benefits and housing are cut off if you remain in the apartment... which separates teens at their most vulnerable from their parents.

but you can pretend it's welfare if you want to.

Based on your political perspective, this post was a pretty thoughtful response to the OP.

Let me give a general answer....

...if one believes in the ability of our black brothers and sisters, it seems logical to subscribe to the view of Fredrick Douglass, who said the following in April, 1865. His speech was called “What the Black Man Wants."


"Everybody has asked the question, and they learned to ask it early of the abolitionists, "What shall we do with the Negro?" I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us!

Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us. Do nothing with us! If the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are worm-eaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall!

I am not for tying or fastening them on the tree in any way, except by nature's plan, and if they will not stay there, let them fall. And if the Negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall also. All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone!

If you see him on his way to school, let him alone, don't disturb him! If you see him going to the dinner table at a hotel, let him go! If you see him going to the ballot- box, let him alone, don't disturb him! [Applause.] If you see him going into a work-shop, just let him alone,--your interference is doing him a positive injury.”


Does it seem to you that Liberal programs have followed that prescription?

yes, but years of oppression by society and race hating ruined what Douglas stated.

While the period you refer to certainly included what you state, Douglass spoke in 1865.

The OP covers a period beyond that, during which blacks competed successfully sans government programs.

Then came the 1960's and the "War on Poverty."

I'll bet you would agree that the 'War' did not produce the results that were promised.


NY Democrat Senator, the brilliant Daniel Patrick Moynihan, called for the same things as Douglass, calling it 'benign neglect' of blacks.


I suggest that Liberal politicians also realize the truth of the Douglass-Moynihan ideas, but have an ulterior agenda, one that is not based on benefiting blacks.


Ya' think?

 

[jillian]

1. Some argue that today’s weak black-family structure is a ‘legacy’ of slavery. But this view loses credibility when one examines evidence from the past.

notwithstanding the race-baiting and the high-fiving you got for it...

there are far more reasons than "welfare" for issues in the black community...

you can start with poverty... which initially came from lack of education and opportunity... separate but equal if you will, not being equal.

you can also add a lack of value on education in some quarters because the truly successful people in high-poverty areas aren't successful because of education

you can also add the systematic removal of male blacks from the community by means of a purported "war on drugs" which, amazingly, impacts black youth far more intensely than it does white youth despite the fact that drug use in the black community is essentially no greater than drug use in the white community.

then try getting a job if you have a criminal record.

if you have a criminal record (e.g., for drugs) and your family is in public housing, their benefits and housing are cut off if you remain in the apartment... which separates teens at their most vulnerable from their parents.

but you can pretend it's welfare if you want to.

Based on your political perspective, this post was a pretty thoughtful response to the OP.

Let me give a general answer....

...if one believes in the ability of our black brothers and sisters, it seems logical to subscribe to the view of Fredrick Douglass, who said the following in April, 1865. His speech was called “What the Black Man Wants."


"Everybody has asked the question, and they learned to ask it early of the abolitionists, "What shall we do with the Negro?" I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us!

Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us. Do nothing with us! If the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are worm-eaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall!

I am not for tying or fastening them on the tree in any way, except by nature's plan, and if they will not stay there, let them fall. And if the Negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall also. All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone!

If you see him on his way to school, let him alone, don't disturb him! If you see him going to the dinner table at a hotel, let him go! If you see him going to the ballot- box, let him alone, don't disturb him! [Applause.] If you see him going into a work-shop, just let him alone,--your interference is doing him a positive injury.”


Does it seem to you that Liberal programs have followed that prescription?

frederick douglas was speaking to different issues.

moreover, you didn't address the issues i raised which DO impact on black families. I'm not saying there is no responsibility and no truth at all in your points... because there is on both counts. but that is a simplistic way of looking at a very complex problem.

i would direct you to The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness by Michelle Alexander

I am not saying you will agree with everything Michelle Alexander says, but you can't ignore the issues she raises either.

What we do know is that programs like Head Start benefit poor kids. We should know that a parent who never had education and lives in poverty isn't going to have the parenting skills to do what i did when my son was born, which was read to him from the day we came home from the hospital, or the resources to care for him and pay for day care, the sitters, the tae kwondo, the piano, the soccer, the fencing, the saxophones, the oboe, the music lessons, the math tutor... yadda, yadda, yadda...

and whether my family were a two-parent home or not, i would still have been able to do all of those things...

because i was educated and employed and had family resources as well as my own.

big difference.

 

[Foxfyre]

I frankly cannot see how a thoughtful discussion of how welfare programs may or may not contribute to the demise of the black family is 'race baiting'.

In my opiinion, to divert the topic to slavery or segregation or the KKK or other such topics IS race baiting as the topic in no way refers to or endorses any of those things. So if we could focus on the specific issue of the pros and cons of government programs intended to address poverty, and the effects of that on the black family, that would be much appreciated. To refocus:

Quoted from writings of Walter Williams, a contemporary of Thomas Sowell, Shelby Steele, William Raspberry, and other accomplished black historians and journalists who have researched and written on this subject:

. . . ."We lived in the Richard Allen housing projects" in Philadelphia, says Mr. Williams. "My father deserted us when I was three and my sister was two. But we were the only kids who didn't have a mother and father in the house. These were poor black people and a few whites living in a housing project, and it was unusual not to have a mother and father in the house. Today, in the same projects, it would be rare to have a mother and father in the house."

Even in the antebellum era, when slaves often weren't permitted to wed, most black children lived with a biological mother and father. During Reconstruction and up until the 1940s, 75% to 85% of black children lived in two-parent families. Today, more than 70% of black children are born to single women. "The welfare state has done to black Americans what slavery couldn't do, what Jim Crow couldn't do, what the harshest racism couldn't do," Mr. Williams says. "And that is to destroy the black family." . . . .
The Weekend Interview with Walter Williams: The State Against Blacks - WSJ.com

 

[jillian]

I frankly cannot see how a thoughtful discussion of how welfare programs may or may not contribute to the demise of the black family is 'race baiting'.

In my opiinion, to divert the topic to slavery or segregation or the KKK or other such topics IS race baiting as the topic in no way refers to or endorses any of those things. So if we could focus on the specific issue of the pros and cons of government programs intended to address poverty, and the effects of that on the black family, that would be much appreciated.

Quoted from writings of Walter Williams, a contemporary of Thomas Sowell:

. . . ."We lived in the Richard Allen housing projects" in Philadelphia, says Mr. Williams. "My father deserted us when I was three and my sister was two. But we were the only kids who didn't have a mother and father in the house. These were poor black people and a few whites living in a housing project, and it was unusual not to have a mother and father in the house. Today, in the same projects, it would be rare to have a mother and father in the house."

Even in the antebellum era, when slaves often weren't permitted to wed, most black children lived with a biological mother and father. During Reconstruction and up until the 1940s, 75% to 85% of black children lived in two-parent families. Today, more than 70% of black children are born to single women. "The welfare state has done to black Americans what slavery couldn't do, what Jim Crow couldn't do, what the harshest racism couldn't do," Mr. Williams says. "And that is to destroy the black family." . . . .
The Weekend Interview with Walter Williams: The State Against Blacks - WSJ.com

and?