"Welcome to the Wild West!"

[JimH52]

Hidden Gun bill clears legislature in Virginia Delegates Militia and Police Committee.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/servle...icArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173354661152&path=

Hidden weapon bill clears panel


By Bob Gibson / [email protected] | 978-7243
February 19, 2008

RICHMOND - A bill to allow people with a concealed weapons permit to bring a hidden handgun into a restaurant if they do not drink won approval of a House of Delegates committee Monday.

“Welcome to the wild, wild West,” said Del. James M. Scott, D-Merrifield, after he was one of five delegates on the Militia and Police Committee to oppose the bill unsuccessfully. The panel approved it on a 16-5 vote.

“We’ve bested Texas. We’ve bested Alaska,” in terms of loosening the restrictions on guns in restaurants that serve alcohol, Scott said of the so-called “guns in bars” bill that is similar to measures that had passed the House in previous years only to die in the Virginia Senate.

Sen. Emmett W. Hanger, R-Mount Solon, is sponsoring the measure, sought for years by gun-rights advocates. It passed the Senate by a 24-15 vote last Tuesday.

“This is a common-sense measure,” said Hanger, whose Shenandoah Valley district includes Greene County and portions of western Albemarle.

“These individuals can be trusted because they are typically people who obey the law [and] have gone through a process” to obtain a permit to carry a concealed weapon, Hanger said.

Virginia has 150,000 residents who hold concealed-carry permits, gun-rights advocates said.

“The folks who have these permits are very scrupulous about following state law,” said Del. Bill Janis, R-Short Pump, who supports the measure.

This year’s bill differs from past measures in that it has a Senate amendment stipulating that “a person who carries of concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club shall inform a designated employee of the restaurant or club that he is carrying a concealed handgun.” The Senate also made it a Class 2 misdemeanor for the gun carrier to consume alcohol and a Class 1 misdemeanor to become intoxicated while carrying a concealed handgun.

Under current state law, a gun owner can carry a weapon into a restaurant serving alcohol if the handgun is not concealed and can drink until the restaurant cuts him off. Any restaurant owner has a right to post a sign saying no one may enter with a gun, and the bill does not change that right.

The bill this year is likely to pass the House again and end up on the desk of Gov. Timothy M. Kaine, a Richmond Democrat whose administration signaled its opposition.

Curtis Coleburn, chief operating officer of the Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control, said the administration opposes Hanger’s bill. “This is bad public safety policy,” Coleburn said. He said police and ABC agents are safer when they are able to see who is armed in a restaurant or club.

The committee Monday also overwhelmingly approved a Senate bill that would allow people who don’t have a concealed weapons permit to transport handguns in a locked glove box or other interior compartment of a vehicle rather than carry it in plain view, as state law requires.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Hidden Gun bill clears legislature in Virginia Delegates Militia and Police Committee.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/servle...icArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173354661152&path=

Hidden weapon bill clears panel


By Bob Gibson / [email protected] | 978-7243
February 19, 2008

RICHMOND - A bill to allow people with a concealed weapons permit to bring a hidden handgun into a restaurant if they do not drink won approval of a House of Delegates committee Monday.

“Welcome to the wild, wild West,” said Del. James M. Scott, D-Merrifield, after he was one of five delegates on the Militia and Police Committee to oppose the bill unsuccessfully. The panel approved it on a 16-5 vote.

“We’ve bested Texas. We’ve bested Alaska,” in terms of loosening the restrictions on guns in restaurants that serve alcohol, Scott said of the so-called “guns in bars” bill that is similar to measures that had passed the House in previous years only to die in the Virginia Senate.

Sen. Emmett W. Hanger, R-Mount Solon, is sponsoring the measure, sought for years by gun-rights advocates. It passed the Senate by a 24-15 vote last Tuesday.

“This is a common-sense measure,” said Hanger, whose Shenandoah Valley district includes Greene County and portions of western Albemarle.

“These individuals can be trusted because they are typically people who obey the law [and] have gone through a process” to obtain a permit to carry a concealed weapon, Hanger said.

Virginia has 150,000 residents who hold concealed-carry permits, gun-rights advocates said.

“The folks who have these permits are very scrupulous about following state law,” said Del. Bill Janis, R-Short Pump, who supports the measure.

This year’s bill differs from past measures in that it has a Senate amendment stipulating that “a person who carries of concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club shall inform a designated employee of the restaurant or club that he is carrying a concealed handgun.” The Senate also made it a Class 2 misdemeanor for the gun carrier to consume alcohol and a Class 1 misdemeanor to become intoxicated while carrying a concealed handgun.

Under current state law, a gun owner can carry a weapon into a restaurant serving alcohol if the handgun is not concealed and can drink until the restaurant cuts him off. Any restaurant owner has a right to post a sign saying no one may enter with a gun, and the bill does not change that right.

The bill this year is likely to pass the House again and end up on the desk of Gov. Timothy M. Kaine, a Richmond Democrat whose administration signaled its opposition.

Curtis Coleburn, chief operating officer of the Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control, said the administration opposes Hanger’s bill. “This is bad public safety policy,” Coleburn said. He said police and ABC agents are safer when they are able to see who is armed in a restaurant or club.

The committee Monday also overwhelmingly approved a Senate bill that would allow people who don’t have a concealed weapons permit to transport handguns in a locked glove box or other interior compartment of a vehicle rather than carry it in plain view, as state law requires.

Outstanding

 

[godhelpus]

This is actually a good thing. Maybe now honest law abiding citizens will have a chance to defend themselves when they are attack or mugged by a criminal with an illegal, non registered ,non carry permitted weapon. Gun control protects criminals.

 

[midcan5]

Questions for the gun huggers among us?

Who has been in a situation where a handgun would have helped them?
Who has a friend who has died because they weren't armed?
Who knows of someone shot or robbed at gunpoint?
Who fires a gun weekly for target practice?
Who sleeps with a gun under their mattress?
Who wants their neighbors armed with concealed guns?
Who feels safer because their neighbors are armed?
Who feels safer today because they are armed?
How many sleep with the light on?
How many hide under the covers when night comes?
Is there a ghost in your closet you are afraid of?

Only answer honestly.

http://www.neahin.org/programs/schoolsafety/gunsafety/statistics.htm

Children and Gun Violence
In a single year, 3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States, according to the latest national data released in 2002. That is one child every three hours; eight children every day; and more than 50 children every week. And every year, at least 4 to 5 times as many kids and teens suffer from non-fatal firearm injuries. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)

America and Gun Violence
American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)

 

[Shogun]

Under current state law, a gun owner can carry a weapon into a restaurant serving alcohol if the handgun is not concealed and can drink until the restaurant cuts him off. Any restaurant owner has a right to post a sign saying no one may enter with a gun, and the bill does not change that right.


I have no problem with any of this. business owners have the option of restricting guns or not. Patrons have the option of giving business to the place that fits their opinion on concealed weapons. I can't recall any gangs of lawless men shooting up any taverns just because they had their guns handy.


works for me.

I wonder how many kids die in auto accidents every year and weather or not that statistic should restrict everyone else from driving.

 

[nukeman]

hey just remember this little old saying.


"WHEN SECONDS COUNT, THE POLICE ARE ONLY MINUTES AWAY"

 

[hjmick]

Questions for the gun huggers among us?

Who has been in a situation where a handgun would have helped them?

Not me...yet.

Who has a friend who has died because they weren't armed?

I have. He heard a noise in his driveway, went out, saw two guys breaking into his car, yelled for family members to call the cops, he was shot twice, the first shot knocked him down, the second shot killed him. The shooter walked up on him. Had he been armed, he would have had time to return fire.

Who knows of someone shot or robbed at gunpoint?

I do.

Who fires a gun weekly for target practice?

I do.

Who sleeps with a gun under their mattress?

Not me, but I can get to it quickly if needed.

Who wants their neighbors armed with concealed guns?

I do, if they so desire and are legally able to do so.

Who feels safer because their neighbors are armed?

I do.

Who feels safer today because they are armed?

I do.

How many sleep with the light on?

Not me. I like it nice and dark.

How many hide under the covers when night comes?

Not me. I hate covers. The most I can tolerate is a sheet up to my waist.

Is there a ghost in your closet you are afraid of?

Not that I am aware of. Though I do not believe in ghosts, so the question is pointless.

Only answer honestly.

That's the only way I answer any question.

I must say, however, that I am not necessarily a "gun hugger" as you define the term. I do however strongly believe in the individuals right to own guns.

 

[rayboyusmc]

I keep several rifles and a shotgun in the house. After 21 years in the Corps, firing expert on all the weapons I had to qualify, I don't think I should be penalized because someone else might shoot themself in the foot or shoot the wrong person. People should be required to take a safety shooting course before they can purchase a weapon.

One of these days I will have to get the concealed weapon permit just so I can carry my Navy Colt black powder replica.

If I had to confront someone breaking into my house, I would consider it very seriously before I blew his/her ass away.

 

[midcan5]

I have. He heard a noise in his driveway, went out, saw two guys breaking into his car, yelled for family members to call the cops, he was shot twice, the first shot knocked him down, the second shot killed him. The shooter walked up on him. Had he been armed, he would have had time to return fire.

Sorry to hear that but you have to admit being armed may not helped. And car thieves with guns is another reason for gun control. More guns = more deaths. No magic simple fact.

 

[hjmick]

Sorry to hear that but you have to admit being armed may not helped. And car thieves with guns is another reason for gun control. More guns = more deaths. No magic simple fact.

Probably not, but we'll never know. The really sad part of the gun debate remains the fact that law abiding responsible citizens like myself, snowman, ray and others, bear the brunt of the fallout caused by people who, more often than not, would have no problem illegally obtaining a gun or guns in order to carry out their twisted plans. I'm fairly certain that the car thieves in question didn't pick up their weapon at the gun shop I frequent, though I admit I could be wrong.

Today I read of an incident in Philadelphia in which a bystander ended an assault by several teenage girls on one girl by pretending to have a weapon in her purse. Now, while I can't say what type of weapon she was pretending to have in her purse, I'm hoping she wasn't trying to pretend she harbored pepper sprayar a taser as there were twelve or so girls in the gang. I do find it interesting that the mere threat of reciprocated violence ended the incident.

As I say so often during the course of discussing this topic, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. As strongly as you believe in your position, I believe we have the right to own guns. I respect your opinion.

For what it's worth, I do believe in the background checks and waiting periods, I can't see how those are a bad idea. And much to the chagrin of some friends, I see absolutely no reason for private citizens to own assault weapons.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Questions for the gun huggers among us?


1. Who has been in a situation where a handgun would have helped them?
2.Who has a friend who has died because they weren't armed?
3.Who knows of someone shot or robbed at gunpoint?
4.Who fires a gun weekly for target practice?
5.Who sleeps with a gun under their mattress?
6.Who wants their neighbors armed with concealed guns?
7.Who feels safer because their neighbors are armed?
8.Who feels safer today because they are armed?
9.How many sleep with the light on?
10.How many hide under the covers when night comes?
11.Is there a ghost in your closet you are afraid of?

I'll bite and take your Litmus test.

1. I haven't been in one, but when I am, I want a gun with me.
2. Why is this revelent?
3.Not relevent either.
4.I shoot twice weekly
5.Putting a gun under your mattress would be stupid. It is inaccessible and not tactically viable. A bedside nightside with a tactical light either attached or within reach is a better idea.
6.I really don't give a damn. To each his own.
7.I don't feel safer because my neighbors are armed, I fell safer because I am armed.
8. I do
9.This is stupid. That is what tac lights are for.
10.How do expect to be taken seriously with questions like this.
11.dumbass

Now explain the relevency of this.

Gun owners are not paranoid freaks that have to have guns because in order to feel safe.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

People should be required to take a safety shooting course before they can purchase a weapon.

I could probably with you on this if it weren't a blatant contradiction to the 2nd amendment. Litmus tests for rights is not acceptable to me.

One of these days I will have to get the concealed weapon permit just so I can carry my Navy Colt black powder replica.

1851 Colt was a fine weapon. Josey Wales thought so as well.

 

[Gunny]

I could probably with you on this if it weren't a blatant contradiction to the 2nd amendment. Litmus tests for rights is not acceptable to me.



1851 Colt was a fine weapon. Josey Wales thought so as well.

If you know how to use and maintain it properly, a black powder cap-n-ball revolver is as good as any other revolver. I have three of them, and if you own the extra cylinders, you can reload by switching out cylinders with as much ease as using a speedloader in a moder era DA revolver.

 

[LOki]

Questions for the gun huggers among us?

Awesome!

Who has been in a situation where a handgun would have helped them?

I have.

Who has a friend who has died because they weren't armed?

I do.

Who knows of someone shot or robbed at gunpoint?

I do.

Who fires a gun weekly for target practice?

It probably averages out to this--I do a little less shooting in the middle of the winter.

Who sleeps with a gun under their mattress?

I don't

Who wants their neighbors armed with concealed guns?

I do.

Who feels safer because their neighbors are armed?

I would.

Who feels safer today because they are armed?

I do.

How many sleep with the light on?

I don't.

How many hide under the covers when night comes?

I don't.

Is there a ghost in your closet you are afraid of?

No.

Only answer honestly.

Done.

Children and Gun Violence
In a single year, 3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States, to the latest national data released in 2002.

So what? Would it make you feel better if they were pushed out of windows?

That is one child every three hours; eight children every day; and more than 50 children every week.

So what? Would it make you feel better if they were beaten with baseball bats?

And every year, at least 4 to 5 times as many kids and teens suffer from non-fatal firearm injuries. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)

So what? Would it make you feel better if those injuries were inflicted with tire-iron?

America and Gun Violence
American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation.

So what? Would you feel better if the children were more at risk from hammers?

In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)

Really. So what?

 

[MasterChief]

Here is some differing data from the NRA...
Lies about children and guns. Brady Campaign and Senator Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.) have claimed that 12 children die from gun accidents every day, and 2008 presidential candidate Hillary Clinton has claimed that 13 children are killed with guns every day. The HELP (Handgun Epidemic Lowering Plan) Network (which is dedicated to “changing society’s attitude toward guns so that it becomes socially unacceptable for private citizens to have handguns”) put the figure at “an average of 9 children” daily. Other “gun control” advocates have varyingly claimed 14 per day (or 5,000 yearly or one every 90 seconds). Some count anyone under the age of 24 as a “child,” to get even higher numbers.9 Anti-gunners add the relatively small number of firearm-related deaths among children to the much larger number of deaths among juveniles and young adults, and dishonestly call the total “children.” In fact, on average there is just under one firearm-related death among children per day, including one accidental death every 5.8 days.

“Gun control” supporters point to a study claiming that so-called “Child Access Prevention” (CAP) laws (which make it a crime, under some circumstances, to leave a gun accessible to a child who obtains and misuses it), imposed in 12 states between 1989-1993, decreased fatal firearm accidents among children.10 The study was produced by people from the Harborview Injury Prevention and Research Center, a group active in the HELP Network. The study’s flaws: Firearm accident deaths among children began declining in the mid-1970s, not in 1989, when “CAP” laws were first imposed. Also, such accidents have decreased nationwide, not only in “CAP” states. And, also in 1989, NRA’s Eddie Eagle GunSafe Program was introduced nationwide.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Questions for the gun huggers among us?

Who has been in a situation where a handgun would have helped them?

One time.

Who has a friend who has died because they weren't armed?

Never had a friend die because they were unarmed.

Who knows of someone shot or robbed at gunpoint?

A girl I went to college with was carjacked and beaten.

Who fires a gun weekly for target practice?

I practice at a shooting range a couple of times a month.


Who sleeps with a gun under their mattress?

Don't sleep with a gun under my pillow but have a peculiar place if I ever need it.

Who wants their neighbors armed with concealed guns?

Don't mind at all because they're law abiding citizens.

Who feels safer because their neighbors are armed?

I feel a lot safer.

Who feels safer today because they are armed?

I feel safer.
How many sleep with the light on?

Don't sleep with the light on.
How many hide under the covers when night comes?

Don't hide under the covers.

Is there a ghost in your
closet you are afraid of?

No ghosts in my house.

Only answer honestly.



http://www.neahin.org/programs/schoolsafety/gunsafety/statistics.htm

Children and Gun Violence
In a single year, 3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States, according to the latest national data released in 2002. That is one child every three hours; eight children every day; and more than 50 children every week. And every year, at least 4 to 5 times as many kids and teens suffer from non-fatal firearm injuries. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)

America and Gun Violence
American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)

All honest answers.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Sorry to hear that but you have to admit being armed may not helped. And car thieves with guns is another reason for gun control. More guns = more deaths. No magic simple fact.

More guns equals more death? Prove it. There are 200 million to 300 million fire arms in the hands of civilians in this country now. Care to guess the percentage of deaths per gun?

 

[midcan5]

This thread was titled correctly and if anything it is proof positive we are still a primitive species of animal. If your world is scary and unknown a gun is required for your safety even though the chances of it being any use probably averages the same as winning the lottery. Lots of people armed does not make the world safer. The truth is more likely that your chances of dying by gun increase as guns increase. Statistically that seems obvious yet some still feel secure holding in their pocket their grown up security blanket. What needs to happen, and is happening slowly with all the recent deaths is that the concealed gun idea changes in peoples minds from security to insecurity. In The US due to the NRA and the silly interpretation of the 2nd amendment that ain't gonna happen soon.

More guns = more deaths. Simple fact in America.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/00news/finaldeath98.htm

 

[CrimsonWhite]

In The US due to the NRA and the silly interpretation of the 2nd amendment that ain't gonna happen soon.

More guns = more deaths. Simple fact in America.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/00news/finaldeath98.htm

And just how would you interpret the 2nd Amendment?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Shall not be infringed is pretty strong wording. How is it's interpretation silly?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The libs have been shitting on the second amendment for 40+ years. Honestly, is this some kind of national pastime with yall?, your right of passage into the dem party by screwing with the second?