Wealth Distribution in the United States

[rightwinger]

Do you not notice that all you are doing is tossing out catch phrases?

Workers are higher trained....really? In what way? DO you know that skill and training was required to run a mutli spindle lathe...now the only skill necessary is to know what "on and oiff" mean to run a CNC lathe.

Work longer hours....really? Exactly where do you see that happening? JUst a catch phrase.

Telling labor that they have to take less? Hell, if it were prosperous times and someone said that to me, I would find another job.

But as for taking less? Do you feel that a switchboard operator in the day of voicemail should be making more (in todays dollars) than a switchbord operator of 20 years ago?

Dont you see how you are just regurgitating catch phrases just like the puppeteers want you to?

Yes, I am familiar with metal work and have a son who is a welder. It goes beyond pushing a button, like you say. Progress is progress and jobs change. That does not mean that the value of labor is now worthless.

In many towns and cities in this country, workers do not have the options of just moving when they don't like the conditions. The jobs are not there.

Workers are higher trained than they were a generation or two ago. Back then a High School diploma was the norm....if you graduated at all. You could leave highschool and get a job that would support you the rest of your life. On that blue collar salary you could buy a house, raise five kids, send them to college and never have to have your wife work

Now, it is hard to do that with a college degree. The standard wage of working Americans has not kept pace with rising costs. Workers have been sold on doing the same jobs for less salary and benefits. While the workers have suffered during tough economic times, management incentives have reached unprecidented levels

JFK once said a rising tide lifts all boats. In our current economy, the rising tide only lifts the yachts

So again, I say your complaint is with technology...not business owners.

If you were buying a new car and you were told that you could buy a car that would use half the gas, cost you a little more than a regular car...but not require any maintenance WHATSOEVER for 5 years GUARANTEED due to new technology....would you buy the car?

Naturally, it would put many mechanics out of a job...and many gas station attendants....but it would help your personal bottom line. Would you resist out of concern for those that you will force out of a job? Lets say you were already very comfortable and dint need to save on the use of a mechanic...but the op[potunity was there to buy a car that ddint require a mechanic....would you not buy it?

Do you pay less for self serve or more for full serve gas? I bet you use self serve. You realize such put thousands out of work.

Why is it that a business owner is blasted for allowing technology to make his life more comfortable.....but non businmess owners do it every day as well?

Red Herring and I live in New Jersey and have my gas pumped for me

I do not have a beef with technology. Ludites didn't work out then and do not work out now. Jobs evolve and workers need to evolve. That does not mean that the value of their work is now worthless.

Your mechanics are still there. They are more technologically trained than before and there are fewer of them. What has changed is that the workers have been asked to tighten their belts and do more for less. They have been told to sacrifice or else.

While the workers have accepted less and less they see corporate managers taking more and more. The imbalance between worker salaries and upper management salaries and perks is not supported by the performance of American Companies.

An American CEO makes many times more than a Japanese or European CEO ..they do not have the performance to justify it. Meanwhile the gap between worker pay and executive compensation in those countries is much less than in the US

Hogs at the trough

 

[bucs90]

RW...the truth is, the value of a low level worker is shrinking...no question about it.
Wherever human intrelligence is not required, technology has or soon will replace the need for a human worker.

Would you prefer going back to 10 cents for a 411 call or do you prefer it free since it is now all compouterized?

Business owners are taking dvantage of technology....and so is everyone.

Nowadays, you cn not get away with being a dick in high school and getting by anyway....the world is a different place.

Everyone needs to set goals at a young age and strive to meet them.

It used to be....hey, if you drop out, you get a job pumping gas...and when you mature, you start to learn about engines and become a mechanic...and maybe even open uyour own gas station/service station.

Now?

That job pumping gas doesnt exist.

Welcome to the present.

Hold on a second.....let me get this right.

In our new, emerging reality........an emphasis is gonna be placed on personal responsibility to succeed or fail?


Oooo. The left aint gonna like that. Not at all.

 

[bucs90]

I am a 5 percenter and my kids never wore sneakwers that cost more than 50 bucks. Didnt have cell phones until they had their own after school jobs....never bought a rap CD with my money.....never bought rims for their cars with my money....and never bought "bling" with my money.

OUr schools have 3 classes in it....rich middle poor.....my kids were rich/moiddle and had way less than many of the poor..

Now sure...you can say I am full oif shit.

Thats the easy way out...But lets be real....you know what the truth is....

I grew up middle/lower. We enjoyed a nice childhood. We wore clothes from Wal-Mart, not a brand name. We wore hand me down shoes from "Gilberts" a local store that took damaged name brand shoes from the mall, and sold them cheap. We had a Nintendo, which was nice. Very modest upbringing, all on a single mom's 2 waitressing jobs (we never took a gov't handout, she just worked her ass off). But after graduation, she was able to pay my first 2 years of college off saved wages.

I had friends on my high school football team who were poor. But they wore the newest Jordans. Had gold chains. Spent all their money from a part time job to get loud speakers in their cars, tinted windows, rims, etc, etc. They still live in the poor part of town, and never improved their lifestyle.

It's priorities and parenting. Not handouts.

Nice display of the gap between the rich & poor taking hold in America. Thank you for your truthfulness.

Well.....let me finish.

My mom saved and took night classes at a community college. She now works for a medical distribution warehouse as a sales rep, earns over 65K a year. A long way from being a waitress working 16 hour days to get by.

Me? I also went to college, thanks to my mother's work and saving. Got a job as a cop in ATL, but had to get out of that b/c of knee injury. Anyway, I work now in the commercial gym industry. Doing ok for myself, make 55-60 a year depending on how many clients I get.

So....lesson? If you're poor, or almost poor, just keep pushing ahead, save, be smart. Eventually, you'll be not poor.

Of course, we shoulda just taken the gov't handouts and stayed there for life, right?

 

[Avatar4321]

DO you truly believe that most business owners inherited their success?

how do people inherit success? I wouldnt think that's even possible.

 

[bucs90]

Yes, I am familiar with metal work and have a son who is a welder. It goes beyond pushing a button, like you say. Progress is progress and jobs change. That does not mean that the value of labor is now worthless.

In many towns and cities in this country, workers do not have the options of just moving when they don't like the conditions. The jobs are not there.

Workers are higher trained than they were a generation or two ago. Back then a High School diploma was the norm....if you graduated at all. You could leave highschool and get a job that would support you the rest of your life. On that blue collar salary you could buy a house, raise five kids, send them to college and never have to have your wife work

Now, it is hard to do that with a college degree. The standard wage of working Americans has not kept pace with rising costs. Workers have been sold on doing the same jobs for less salary and benefits. While the workers have suffered during tough economic times, management incentives have reached unprecidented levels

JFK once said a rising tide lifts all boats. In our current economy, the rising tide only lifts the yachts

So again, I say your complaint is with technology...not business owners.

If you were buying a new car and you were told that you could buy a car that would use half the gas, cost you a little more than a regular car...but not require any maintenance WHATSOEVER for 5 years GUARANTEED due to new technology....would you buy the car?

Naturally, it would put many mechanics out of a job...and many gas station attendants....but it would help your personal bottom line. Would you resist out of concern for those that you will force out of a job? Lets say you were already very comfortable and dint need to save on the use of a mechanic...but the op[potunity was there to buy a car that ddint require a mechanic....would you not buy it?

Do you pay less for self serve or more for full serve gas? I bet you use self serve. You realize such put thousands out of work.

Why is it that a business owner is blasted for allowing technology to make his life more comfortable.....but non businmess owners do it every day as well?

Red Herring and I live in New Jersey and have my gas pumped for me

I do not have a beef with technology. Ludites didn't work out then and do not work out now. Jobs evolve and workers need to evolve. That does not mean that the value of their work is now worthless.

Your mechanics are still there. They are more technologically trained than before and there are fewer of them. What has changed is that the workers have been asked to tighten their belts and do more for less. They have been told to sacrifice or else.

While the workers have accepted less and less they see corporate managers taking more and more. The imbalance between worker salaries and upper management salaries and perks is not supported by the performance of American Companies.

An American CEO makes many times more than a Japanese or European CEO ..they do not have the performance to justify it. Meanwhile the gap between worker pay and executive compensation in those countries is much less than in the US

Hogs at the trough

You have your gas pumped because NJ is the ONLY state in America that requires, by law, that gas be pumped for you. Why? Take a guess (Unions and gas workers not wanting to be put out of business by self-serve). Thus, you're paying more for your gas than we do in, say, SC, because we pump it ourselves. Given the choice, you'd pump your own too, so get off your soap box of liberal righteousness. The only reason you don't go self-serve is NJ law wont allow you to.

Your other examples are non-points. Yep. American CEO's make more than Euro, Jap, Chinese, African, S. American, Russian CEOs. Guess what? American workers make far more wealth than all those regions workers also.

Bottom line: Our poor are fat. They eat more calories than they burn.

They are overfed, underworked. They have no complaint.

 

[Jarhead]

Yes, I am familiar with metal work and have a son who is a welder. It goes beyond pushing a button, like you say. Progress is progress and jobs change. That does not mean that the value of labor is now worthless.

In many towns and cities in this country, workers do not have the options of just moving when they don't like the conditions. The jobs are not there.

Workers are higher trained than they were a generation or two ago. Back then a High School diploma was the norm....if you graduated at all. You could leave highschool and get a job that would support you the rest of your life. On that blue collar salary you could buy a house, raise five kids, send them to college and never have to have your wife work

Now, it is hard to do that with a college degree. The standard wage of working Americans has not kept pace with rising costs. Workers have been sold on doing the same jobs for less salary and benefits. While the workers have suffered during tough economic times, management incentives have reached unprecidented levels

JFK once said a rising tide lifts all boats. In our current economy, the rising tide only lifts the yachts

So again, I say your complaint is with technology...not business owners.

If you were buying a new car and you were told that you could buy a car that would use half the gas, cost you a little more than a regular car...but not require any maintenance WHATSOEVER for 5 years GUARANTEED due to new technology....would you buy the car?

Naturally, it would put many mechanics out of a job...and many gas station attendants....but it would help your personal bottom line. Would you resist out of concern for those that you will force out of a job? Lets say you were already very comfortable and dint need to save on the use of a mechanic...but the op[potunity was there to buy a car that ddint require a mechanic....would you not buy it?

Do you pay less for self serve or more for full serve gas? I bet you use self serve. You realize such put thousands out of work.

Why is it that a business owner is blasted for allowing technology to make his life more comfortable.....but non businmess owners do it every day as well?

Red Herring and I live in New Jersey and have my gas pumped for me

I do not have a beef with technology. Ludites didn't work out then and do not work out now. Jobs evolve and workers need to evolve. That does not mean that the value of their work is now worthless.

Your mechanics are still there. They are more technologically trained than before and there are fewer of them. What has changed is that the workers have been asked to tighten their belts and do more for less. They have been told to sacrifice or else.

While the workers have accepted less and less they see corporate managers taking more and more. The imbalance between worker salaries and upper management salaries and perks is not supported by the performance of American Companies.

An American CEO makes many times more than a Japanese or European CEO ..they do not have the performance to justify it. Meanwhile the gap between worker pay and executive compensation in those countries is much less than in the US

Hogs at the trough

NO.

You are 100% wrong.

They are being asked to do LESS for a salary where they used to do more.

A receptionist no longer needs to answer 40 extensions....but the salary for one is the same (in todays dollars)

A secretary no longer needs to type from scratch. Her boss invested in computer software at his cost to make HER job easier....(I know...chauvenistic not politically correct blah blah blah)

A mailroom clerk now has computer software that collates and categorizes based on bar codes...at cost of employer to make HIS job easier.

Thats where you dont see it.

The employee is asked to do less for the market salary.

And as for the mechanics thing.....my example was referring to s future technology so comparing mechics of today to those of yesterday was not applicable.

 

[bucs90]

DO you truly believe that most business owners inherited their success?

how do people inherit success? I wouldnt think that's even possible.

One cannot inherit success. Wealth, yes. But without the behaviors that promote success, that wealth will disappear.

But I also do not understand the liberal hatred for inheritance. I find it a noble thing for a couple to work hard, to set their kids up for a HEAD START.

Yes, libs, some parents want their kids to have a HEAD START over their peers.

Is that immoral? Seriously. Is it immoral to set your child up for a head start? I find it noble. The kid better be appreciative and make good use of it. Some don't. Some are spoiled brats. Others aren't.


Or......should all kids be forced to start with exactly the same start point? No inheritance. No head start.

Whats wrong with saying "I'm gonna work hard, save, get wealth, and pass it on to my kids." Is that so immoral?

 

[Avatar4321]

Funny thing?

When I asked him why not get rid of his boat and use the funds to help with his mortgage he said...and I swear this is true.....
(paraphrased)

'there is no sympathy for someone who may lose his boat so I would rather default on the house and likely get assistance from the bank, my family or the governemnt'

But...he goit none of the above cause he lives in a middle to upper class neighborhood.

I

Sympathy? That's ridiculous. It's about survival. Not sympathy. You sell the boat to pay for your life.

I dont understand the way some people think.

 

[bucs90]

So again, I say your complaint is with technology...not business owners.

If you were buying a new car and you were told that you could buy a car that would use half the gas, cost you a little more than a regular car...but not require any maintenance WHATSOEVER for 5 years GUARANTEED due to new technology....would you buy the car?

Naturally, it would put many mechanics out of a job...and many gas station attendants....but it would help your personal bottom line. Would you resist out of concern for those that you will force out of a job? Lets say you were already very comfortable and dint need to save on the use of a mechanic...but the op[potunity was there to buy a car that ddint require a mechanic....would you not buy it?

Do you pay less for self serve or more for full serve gas? I bet you use self serve. You realize such put thousands out of work.

Why is it that a business owner is blasted for allowing technology to make his life more comfortable.....but non businmess owners do it every day as well?

Red Herring and I live in New Jersey and have my gas pumped for me

I do not have a beef with technology. Ludites didn't work out then and do not work out now. Jobs evolve and workers need to evolve. That does not mean that the value of their work is now worthless.

Your mechanics are still there. They are more technologically trained than before and there are fewer of them. What has changed is that the workers have been asked to tighten their belts and do more for less. They have been told to sacrifice or else.

While the workers have accepted less and less they see corporate managers taking more and more. The imbalance between worker salaries and upper management salaries and perks is not supported by the performance of American Companies.

An American CEO makes many times more than a Japanese or European CEO ..they do not have the performance to justify it. Meanwhile the gap between worker pay and executive compensation in those countries is much less than in the US

Hogs at the trough

NO.

You are 100% wrong.

They are being asked to do LESS for a salary where they used to do more.

A receptionist no longer needs to answer 40 extensions....but the salary for one is the same (in todays dollars)

A secretary no longer needs to type from scratch. Her boss invested in computer software at his cost to make HER job easier....(I know...chauvenistic not politically correct blah blah blah)

A mailroom clerk now has computer software that collates and categorizes based on bar codes...at cost of employer to make HIS job easier.

Thats where you dont see it.

The employee is asked to do less for the market salary.

And as for the mechanics thing.....my example was referring to s future technology so comparing mechics of today to those of yesterday was not applicable.

Again, well put.


The liberal rich-haters still haven't refuted my core point.

Our "poor" are suffering an obesity epedimic. The only nation on Earth whose lower class is FAT!!! Which means our lower class consumes far more calories than they burn.

They are A) Overfed and B) Underworked.

They have NOTHING to complain about.

 

[shintao]

I am a 5 percenter and my kids never wore sneakwers that cost more than 50 bucks. Didnt have cell phones until they had their own after school jobs....never bought a rap CD with my money.....never bought rims for their cars with my money....and never bought "bling" with my money.

OUr schools have 3 classes in it....rich middle poor.....my kids were rich/moiddle and had way less than many of the poor..

Now sure...you can say I am full oif shit.

Thats the easy way out...But lets be real....you know what the truth is....

So your point is your kids had the same toys. Thanks for answering truthfully.

wow...

Thats your response?

My kids had much of such "toys"....after the age of 15 when they were working.
But they were well behind many of the poor that had them at a much younger age.

Did you think all blacks got the goodies on the same day? That wouldn't be logical. And you being behind many poor is logical. I doubt you had any union members working to support your family.

 

[Jarhead]

Funny thing?

When I asked him why not get rid of his boat and use the funds to help with his mortgage he said...and I swear this is true.....
(paraphrased)

'there is no sympathy for someone who may lose his boat so I would rather default on the house and likely get assistance from the bank, my family or the governemnt'

But...he goit none of the above cause he lives in a middle to upper class neighborhood.

I

Sympathy? That's ridiculous. It's about survival. Not sympathy. You sell the boat to pay for your life.

I dont understand the way some people think.

when you have the President and the majority (at the time) telling you that you are a victim becuase YOU did not read before you signed a credit card application and you are a victim because YOU lied about your income when you sighned a NINJA loan and you are a victim becuase you lost money in the market as YOU tried to have your money make easy money for you by gambling it...

It is easy to feel you deserve sympathy.

 

[Jarhead]

So your point is your kids had the same toys. Thanks for answering truthfully.

wow...

Thats your response?

My kids had much of such "toys"....after the age of 15 when they were working.
But they were well behind many of the poor that had them at a much younger age.

Did you think all blacks got the goodies on the same day? That wouldn't be logical. And you being behind many poor is logical. I doubt you had any union members working to support your family.

huh?

At 12 years old. cell phones were an issue in my sons middle school.
Interestingly, it was found that most that had them AND used them during class were either the very wealthy or the poor.
Both were wrong to have them for different reasons.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It snowed here on Long Island...the third storm in 4 weeks.

Schools, again, were closed.

As with many areas in the tri state area,,,,there are lower income areas within a half a mile from my house.

I have yet to see a single kid out shovelling for money....NOT ONE over 3 storms.

I have not seen a single adult either for that matter.

I would pay anyone 100 bucks to shovel a double driveway and a 60 foot sidewalk....took me about 2 hours each time...about 1 1/2 feet of now each time

Where were they?

You can buy a good snowblower for 600 bucks or so.

 

[Jarhead]

Red Herring and I live in New Jersey and have my gas pumped for me

I do not have a beef with technology. Ludites didn't work out then and do not work out now. Jobs evolve and workers need to evolve. That does not mean that the value of their work is now worthless.

Your mechanics are still there. They are more technologically trained than before and there are fewer of them. What has changed is that the workers have been asked to tighten their belts and do more for less. They have been told to sacrifice or else.

While the workers have accepted less and less they see corporate managers taking more and more. The imbalance between worker salaries and upper management salaries and perks is not supported by the performance of American Companies.

An American CEO makes many times more than a Japanese or European CEO ..they do not have the performance to justify it. Meanwhile the gap between worker pay and executive compensation in those countries is much less than in the US

Hogs at the trough

NO.

You are 100% wrong.

They are being asked to do LESS for a salary where they used to do more.

A receptionist no longer needs to answer 40 extensions....but the salary for one is the same (in todays dollars)

A secretary no longer needs to type from scratch. Her boss invested in computer software at his cost to make HER job easier....(I know...chauvenistic not politically correct blah blah blah)

A mailroom clerk now has computer software that collates and categorizes based on bar codes...at cost of employer to make HIS job easier.

Thats where you dont see it.

The employee is asked to do less for the market salary.

And as for the mechanics thing.....my example was referring to s future technology so comparing mechics of today to those of yesterday was not applicable.

Again, well put.


The liberal rich-haters still haven't refuted my core point.

Our "poor" are suffering an obesity epedimic. The only nation on Earth whose lower class is FAT!!! Which means our lower class consumes far more calories than they burn.

They are A) Overfed and B) Underworked.

They have NOTHING to complain about.

I have asked a dozen times on this board oin the past for someone to show me either of two things..

1) where a child died becuase his family was refused medical help in an emergency

2) where a child starved to death (other than the cases where parents did it intentionally)

Interestingly, no one ever produces evidence of either.

 

[Jarhead]

It snowed here on Long Island...the third storm in 4 weeks.

Schools, again, were closed.

As with many areas in the tri state area,,,,there are lower income areas within a half a mile from my house.

I have yet to see a single kid out shovelling for money....NOT ONE over 3 storms.

I have not seen a single adult either for that matter.

I would pay anyone 100 bucks to shovel a double driveway and a 60 foot sidewalk....took me about 2 hours each time...about 1 1/2 feet of now each time

Where were they?

You can buy a good snowblower for 600 bucks or so.

Not me. Never bought one. I like to get out early and it is rude to use something noisy early in the morning.

Had my two boys shovel for me as I did for my dad.

JUst dont understand, with 10% unemployment, why no one comes around anymore.

 

[NYcarbineer]

False premise, that the only way into the middle or upper classes is intelligence.

False premise, that the only way to be healty is to have "health care".

Wrong and wrong. Go away.

Your lack of effective response only serves to illustrate the considerable lack of substance to your position.

You didn't back up anything you said.

 

[shintao]

Red Herring and I live in New Jersey and have my gas pumped for me

I do not have a beef with technology. Ludites didn't work out then and do not work out now. Jobs evolve and workers need to evolve. That does not mean that the value of their work is now worthless.

Your mechanics are still there. They are more technologically trained than before and there are fewer of them. What has changed is that the workers have been asked to tighten their belts and do more for less. They have been told to sacrifice or else.

While the workers have accepted less and less they see corporate managers taking more and more. The imbalance between worker salaries and upper management salaries and perks is not supported by the performance of American Companies.

An American CEO makes many times more than a Japanese or European CEO ..they do not have the performance to justify it. Meanwhile the gap between worker pay and executive compensation in those countries is much less than in the US

Hogs at the trough

NO.

You are 100% wrong.

They are being asked to do LESS for a salary where they used to do more.

A receptionist no longer needs to answer 40 extensions....but the salary for one is the same (in todays dollars)

A secretary no longer needs to type from scratch. Her boss invested in computer software at his cost to make HER job easier....(I know...chauvenistic not politically correct blah blah blah)

A mailroom clerk now has computer software that collates and categorizes based on bar codes...at cost of employer to make HIS job easier.

Thats where you dont see it.

The employee is asked to do less for the market salary.

And as for the mechanics thing.....my example was referring to s future technology so comparing mechics of today to those of yesterday was not applicable.

Again, well put.


The liberal rich-haters still haven't refuted my core point.

Our "poor" are suffering an obesity epedimic. The only nation on Earth whose lower class is FAT!!! Which means our lower class consumes far more calories than they burn.

They are A) Overfed and B) Underworked.

They have NOTHING to complain about.

Gluttony brought on by capitalistic greed. Of course, man does not live by bread alone, and the capitalist system also makes them fat by not providing jobs. The well fit, well exercised people are in socialist nations where Capitalism sent all our factories and corporations fleeing to.

Hmm, who hates the rich? Can you provide me a list of Liberals who say so? I am comfortably rich as a Liberal. Do you hate me? And if you do, can I generally apply that statement to you as well?? The con rich-haters.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It snowed here on Long Island...the third storm in 4 weeks.

Schools, again, were closed.

As with many areas in the tri state area,,,,there are lower income areas within a half a mile from my house.

I have yet to see a single kid out shovelling for money....NOT ONE over 3 storms.

I have not seen a single adult either for that matter.

I would pay anyone 100 bucks to shovel a double driveway and a 60 foot sidewalk....took me about 2 hours each time...about 1 1/2 feet of now each time

Where were they?

Once again, back to my simple math. Our poor are fat. Which means they take in more calories than they burn.

They are overfed and underworked.

If the low income folks you speak of had the type of work ethic that kept them unfat, they'd be shoveling snow. They aren't. They are home, eating, laying down, getting fatter, and bitching about income inequality.

Maybe we should pay our farmworkers more money.

 

[mdn2000]

Wealth Distribution in the United States | Business Pundit

Financially speaking, there is a great inequality in the United States. Over the last 30 years, while the rich have been getting richer, the poor have been getting steadily poorer. One reason for the growing disparity between the rich and the poor is the fact that most new jobs that are created pay low wages and often do not offer retirement plans or health coverage.

The poor have not gotten poorer, the rich have not gotten richer.

How many different ways can the Liberals tell a lie.

Prove it. You can not, I read this thread, you offer zero proof, are we to argue every insult or lie the Liberals put forth.

So where exactly do we meet in the middle with a complete lie, how are we to be compromising when the Liberal's argument is a lie, how can we represent the truth and compromise with a lie.

This is further proof the Liberal Ideology must be defeated and not compromised with.

 

[shintao]

It snowed here on Long Island...the third storm in 4 weeks.

Schools, again, were closed.

As with many areas in the tri state area,,,,there are lower income areas within a half a mile from my house.

I have yet to see a single kid out shovelling for money....NOT ONE over 3 storms.

I have not seen a single adult either for that matter.

I would pay anyone 100 bucks to shovel a double driveway and a 60 foot sidewalk....took me about 2 hours each time...about 1 1/2 feet of now each time

Where were they?

You can buy a good snowblower for 600 bucks or so.

Not me. Never bought one. I like to get out early and it is rude to use something noisy early in the morning.

Had my two boys shovel for me as I did for my dad.

JUst dont understand, with 10% unemployment, why no one comes around anymore.

After the first ten thousand houses, they gave up, and logically think it is a waste of time because you can't afford to hire them. And if they did work for you and fell and broke a leg, you would be liable. You might use your head a little as well, because that is what the other ten thousand home owners thought that turned them down. Ain't Capitalism grand?

Other reasons might be they are a felon for some poverty related crime, and cannot get a city license to work with the public. When they come to my door selling candy or whatever services, I ask to see their license for solicitation.