We Will Stop This Environmental Problem?

[BrianH]

Did you ever fly over LA?

Tell me that man can't screw up the environment.

What data do you have that all the planets are heating up and in what relationship to the earth?

I agree that on a large scale, the earth may be warming. But I don't think humans are causing it. Just my opinion. What caused the ice to melt at the end of Ice Age....humans? What caused the Little Ice Age during the 1600-1700s? I'm sure humans are contributing to a degree, but I don't think that we are causing it, nor rapidly speeding it up. Water-vapor is more of a green-house gas than CO2. It just takes a few really abnormally hot years to get alot of water-vapor into the air to cause some warming.

 

[jillian]

I agree that on a large scale, the earth may be warming. But I don't think humans are causing it. Just my opinion. What caused the ice to melt at the end of Ice Age....humans? What caused the Little Ice Age during the 1600-1700s? I'm sure humans are contributing to a degree, but I don't think that we are causing it, nor rapidly speeding it up. Water-vapor is more of a green-house gas than CO2. It just takes a few really abnormally hot years to get alot of water-vapor into the air to cause some warming.

My issue with what you're saying isn't that there haven't always been warming/cooling patterns.

It's that we've EXACERBATED the patterns and we can be smarter about how we treat our planet.

Does that mean I think the polar ice cap is going to melt tomorrow? No. But I do think it's time for people to stop politicizing this and start acknowledging that all of the accepted science in the area says we have a serious climate change problem.... that we CAN help to control.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

My issue with what you're saying isn't that there haven't always been warming/cooling patterns.

It's that we've EXACERBATED the patterns and we can be smarter about how we treat our planet.

Does that mean I think the polar ice cap is going to melt tomorrow? No. But I do think it's time for people to stop politicizing this and start acknowledging that all of the accepted science in the area says we have a serious climate change problem.... that we CAN help to control.

And in 5 years when we are in the cool down, will you be blaming man for that too?

 

[BrianH]

My issue with what you're saying isn't that there haven't always been warming/cooling patterns.

It's that we've EXACERBATED the patterns and we can be smarter about how we treat our planet.

Does that mean I think the polar ice cap is going to melt tomorrow? No. But I do think it's time for people to stop politicizing this and start acknowledging that all of the accepted science in the area says we have a serious climate change problem.... that we CAN help to control.

Oh I agree %100. Should we be more careful about what we put into the atmosphere? yes. Should we try to find cleaner buring alternatives for fuel? yes. I'm all for going green and trying do good by our environment, given we have the capability.

On the flip side, I just think human impact on global warming is highly exaggerated, a money making scheme. I say this after watching numerous commercials of environmentalist talking about pollution from plants, and then showing a supposed "smokestack" releasing dangerous smoke and chemicals into the atmosphere...when in reality, (the majority of the time) their showing you steam used to cool turbines and generators.

Sure, we contribute, bit are we warming the earth's climate? unlikely. The other planets are warming also, there have been numerous times in the earth's history where the earth has cooled/heated without human assistance.

I do not have a problem with trying to better human's impact on the immediate environment.

 

[Zoomie1980]

My issue with what you're saying isn't that there haven't always been warming/cooling patterns.

It's that we've EXACERBATED the patterns and we can be smarter about how we treat our planet.

Does that mean I think the polar ice cap is going to melt tomorrow? No. But I do think it's time for people to stop politicizing this and start acknowledging that all of the accepted science in the area says we have a serious climate change problem.... that we CAN help to control.

Well it always makes sense to be clean, neat, efficient by turning your lights off when not using them, driving smarter by combining trips, buying energy efficient stuff, buying a hybrid when the time comes, investing in a solar panel if the payback in years is reasonable, etc...

But in light of recent scientific studies showing the early stages of a protracted two decade or longer decline in solar activity and output, as a policy maker I'd be far more concerned with the prospects of significant global COOLING, not warming.... As stated earlier, warming actually allows more cropland to come into production while cooling eliminates it. Given a choice between a 3 degree Celsius rise or fall in global average temperature, I'd take the rise anytime before a fall.

 

[nibor]

Um this may explain the greenhouse gases a bit better than originally blaming it on COW FARTS.................................and they thought they really really had a handle on it..........................well IMHO well yes yes they certainly did and do, and merely have to pull it a coupla more times.............


http://www.pbs.org/strangedays/episodes/dangerouscatch/experts/stench.html

 

[rayboyusmc]

a human-hating environmentalist

are much like human hating compassionate conservatives.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You don't have to be an environmentalist (human hating or otherwise) to know that we here in the US need a better energy and conservation policy.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the less we use foreign and nonrenewable energy sources the better off we will be.

We will be less vulnerable economically because oil prices that are set mostly at auction and run up by speculators who basically treat the commodities market like Las Vegas with better pay outs ( true because their speculation actually tips the odds to their favor that prices and therefore their profits will go up) have a direct effect on our economy and our standard of living.

Not to mention that our dealings in the middle east are less about world peace and more about oil. All of our attempts at diplomacy in the Middle east are tainted by the fact that we are there more in our own self interests. They know this and so our mere presence is suspect. Think how much easier diplomacy would be if we didn't so obviously want want they have (oil).

Not to mention the fact that a cogent energy policy that gave tax breaks to citizens who implement simple solutions like solar hot water heating and geothermal heating and cooling would not only save Americans a TON of dough but would also make us safer both physically and economically and you have to ask the question why the hell aren't we doing this?

 

[Bern80]

My issue with what you're saying isn't that there haven't always been warming/cooling patterns.

It's that we've EXACERBATED the patterns and we can be smarter about how we treat our planet.

Does that mean I think the polar ice cap is going to melt tomorrow? No. But I do think it's time for people to stop politicizing this and start acknowledging that all of the accepted science in the area says we have a serious climate change problem.... that we CAN help to control.

No one has politicized anything here so far. All anyone has said is that there is no evidence and in fact now counter evidence for what you claim 'we' did.

 

[Uknow_me72]

I really have a hard time getting in to a debate about Global Warming subjects just because the solution is so great that it will never happen.

We would have to rid cars, airplanes and any other factories that burn and put pollutants in the air to really solve anything. We can't have some or a cut back. All will have to go.

Noone is ready to give that up. Or are we? We wouldn't pay for gas.

 

[jillian]

No one has politicized anything here so far. All anyone has said is that there is no evidence and in fact now counter evidence for what you claim 'we' did.

Saying there's no evidence is an outright lie. And I've seen you taken to task on this issue enough times to know that you know that, too.

 

[Gunny]

Saying there's no evidence is an outright lie. And I've seen you taken to task on this issue enough times to know that you know that, too.

What someone believes is not necessarily a lie because you disagree. Kind of hard to take anyone to task with evidence that does NOT exist.

There is NO evidence that proves exactly what the cause of global warming is. If there was, there would be no debate and no questions.

The fact that man is polluting the Hell out of the planet doesn't prove anything except that Man is polluting the Hell out of the planet. I'm all for curtailing that as much as possible within reason.

However, there is no actual evidence that ties one to the other. Just some people with agendas and their theories.

The problem with all this alarmist bullshit is Man cannot accept the fact there are powers greater than His, and there are events beyond His control. We're one good meteor strike away from oblivion and that's the just the way it is.

The planet goes through cyclical cooling and heating phases. That's the default argument based on documented evidence. It's up to all these alarmist eggheads to PROVE -- not theorize -- anything else.

 

[Zoomie1980]

What someone believes is not necessarily a lie because you disagree. Kind of hard to take anyone to task with evidence that does NOT exist.

There is NO evidence that proves exactly what the cause of global warming is. If there was, there would be no debate and no questions.

The fact that man is polluting the Hell out of the planet doesn't prove anything except that Man is polluting the Hell out of the planet. I'm all for curtailing that as much as possible within reason.

However, there is no actual evidence that ties one to the other. Just some people with agendas and their theories.

The problem with all this alarmist bullshit is Man cannot accept the fact there are powers greater than His, and there are events beyond His control. We're one good meteor strike away from oblivion and that's the just the way it is.

The planet goes through cyclical cooling and heating phases. That's the default argument based on documented evidence. It's up to all these alarmist eggheads to PROVE -- not theorize -- anything else.

And the latest evidence from DataTech ( a service that compile the four major temperature recording services into an overall average) claims this past year alone has seen a decrease of .7 C in overall average global temperature, by far the BIGGEST CHANGE in all recorded history in any direction. In one year we have wiped out almost ALL the combined "warming" over the past 100 years.....all because the sun is taking a break.

 

[Canis]

I have developed some issues with the Green movement as it has moved to the level of a political importance imposed on wide spectrum of society. Although I'm not old enough to have witness the movement beginning in the 60s... it appears to have originally begun with citizens taking the streets. The current and almost completely corporate structure of many of the environmental special interests groups seem to have a more careful agenda. This isn’t to water down my conviction that global warming is man made, but I just want to point out that criticisms thrown out at environmentalists aren’t completely unwarranted.

The problem isn’t Green or anti-Green any more than it is environmentalists versus capitalists. The problem is the approach that we have when it comes to retaining power and knowledge, which goes far beyond these movements. If the Green movement won over our current administrative structure, it would be just as secretive, retentive, and sure of itself as ever. It would just change the self-evident truths our society becomes obsessed with.