We should obey the law because?

[fyrenza]

I would only obey the laws that made good sense, but I'm afraid of going to jail, too, so unless my disobedience would only result in a misdemeanor, I'm obeying them.

So you'd turn in Anne Frank and runaway slaves if refusing to do so were a class six felony?

Well, therein lies the rub ~ I obey God's laws BEFORE I obey man's laws, so if there is a major conflict, I'll err on the side of God, regardless of consequences.

However, looking at your example, if you're asking me if I would knowingly harbor criminal fugitives, I probably wouldn't since EVERYONE has a tale of woe that makes them sound innocent.

Would I "turn them in," given THOSE examples?

No,

but we know their entire story, and we know that the laws regarding them were unjust and discriminatory, and that their only crime was being who they were, and wanting to live.

 

[G.T.]

So you would turn in Anne Frank and runaway slaves in the name of Der Staat.

Got it.

Ann Frank's story happened in America?
.

You'd turn in ethnic chinese so they could be put in detention camps?


Nice attempt to evade, though, statist.

You're a douchebag.

My post says that the law doesn't stop me from doing much of anything. You cut that part of my post out, and labeled it as saying the exact opposite.

In case you missed the point of how *I* deal with the law, here I'll include the part of my post that you so conveniently cut out, to somehow support your ignorance:

Because it is the Law. In the US, you can protest and take steps toward repealing a Law if you disagree with it passionately. If you lose, you lose. Society needs to have some sort of cooperative system in place in order to maintain some minimum quality of life standards.

Not that the Law stops me from doing much ; ) <-- what this clause means, couple with the information from the paragraph above, is that you *should* protest laws that you don't agree with using the tools that are available to you to do so.....but me, personally, I use this little thing called "case by case basis. (meaning, no, I wouldn't turn slaves in, ass hole).

 

[Meister]

I obey the laws because I wouldn't be a very good girlfriend for some guy in prison.

What???? Wouldn't want your nickname to be "Phyllis"?

 

[JBeukema]

I would only obey the laws that made good sense, but I'm afraid of going to jail, too, so unless my disobedience would only result in a misdemeanor, I'm obeying them.

So you'd turn in Anne Frank and runaway slaves if refusing to do so were a class six felony?

Well, therein lies the rub ~ I obey God's laws BEFORE I obey man's laws

Which? The ones that say women must marry their rapists? The ones requiring slaves dutifully obey their masters? The commandments to commit genocide to purge the promised land of the jesubites, ammonites, and hittites? Or those the Pope makes up?

so if there is a major conflict, I'll err on the side of God, regardless of consequences.

So when your virgin daughter is raped...

However, looking at your example, if you're asking me if I would knowingly harbor criminal fugitives, I probably wouldn't since EVERYONE has a tale of woe that makes them sound innocent.

Right...

 

[JBeukema]

My post says that the law doesn't stop me from doing much of anything.

So you recant your first answer and instead vote for anarchy?

Because it is the Law. In the US, you can protest and take steps toward repealing a Law if you disagree with it passionately. If you lose, you lose. Society needs to have some sort of cooperative system in place in order to maintain some minimum quality of life standards.

So you appeal to the State and if they saw you still have to turn in Anne frank, tough

Not that the Law stops me from doing much ; )

But you still side with drug dealers and rapists...

If you had principles, this wouldn't be such a problem for you.

 

[DiamondDave]

Because it is the law...

Go about seeking changes to the laws and the system in legal ways...

So you'd help round up the Jews to be sent to Dachau because it was the law.

Remember the names of the Statists who reveal themselves here today.

Well... the Nazi example rears its head

I don't see any such laws here.... and while there is a time for rebellion against a tyrannical government, this is not such a time and this is not such a government (even if it is warped in power beyond original intent)

 

[boedicca]

For the Rule of Law to be valid, laws should be enacted with the Consent of the Governed and which are consistent with the limits on government power embodied in The Constitution.

And if the governed wish for something that's not in the Constitution- like an Air Force, social security, the presumption of innocence, or Judicial Review (the Constitution never explained how the court was to check the legislature), or medicare?

What if the governed don't want the Constitution at all? What if they want to do as the FF did with the Articles of Confederation and replace it with something better?


You can't appeal to the Constitution and also to the consent of the governed. It's one or the other- either it is the will of the people that matters, as Jefferson said, or it is the Constitution- the Law as laid down by men long dead and elevated to the status of a holy text.

You have a different standard of what is Constitutional than do I.

Being consistent with the proper rights of the individual and the limited role of government as defined by The Constitution works for me as opposed to having been specifically mentioned verbatim interpretation.

The Air Force meets that criteria; Social Security does not.

 

[G.T.]

My post says that the law doesn't stop me from doing much of anything.

So you recant your first answer and instead vote for anarchy?

Because it is the Law. In the US, you can protest and take steps toward repealing a Law if you disagree with it passionately. If you lose, you lose. Society needs to have some sort of cooperative system in place in order to maintain some minimum quality of life standards.

So you appeal to the State and if they saw you still have to turn in Anne frank, tough

Not that the Law stops me from doing much ; )

But you still side with drug dealers and rapists...

If you had principles, this wouldn't be such a problem for you.

That you misrepresent what I'd do, doesn't change what I'd do; thus, you are of no consequence. Die slow. Figuratively speaking, of course.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Every decision I make, I weigh the possible consequences against my own wishes and conscience.

"The Law" is nothing more than a possible consequence.

 

[G.T.]

Every decision I make, I weigh the possible consequences against my own wishes and conscience.

"The Law" is nothing more than a possible consequence.

Basically anyone who's not a robot would probably do this.

 

[fyrenza]

God's laws, NOT man's interpretations of what God was saying/meant, but the 10 commandments He gave us.

Hey, and in case you hadn't noticed, we HAVE laws that state we are to kill off everyone in certain regions ~ that's what WAR is all about, and if you refuse to kill on command, you will suffer for having broken those laws.

Not sure where you're going with the my "virgin daughter raped" thang, but I can assure you that I'd want the rapist brought to justice.

p.s. I thought this was a "real" poll/thread, not just a soapbox for you to berate those who don't give the answer you want to see. My bad.

 

[JBeukema]

Because it is the law...

Go about seeking changes to the laws and the system in legal ways...

So you'd help round up the Jews to be sent to Dachau because it was the law.

Remember the names of the Statists who reveal themselves here today.

Well... the Nazi example rears its head

I don't see any such laws here...

Because people disagreed with you statists and fought against such things as the fugitive slave act

 

[The Rabbi]

Because it is the Law.

So you would turn in Anne Frank and runaway slaves in the name of Der Staat.

Got it.

Are you honestly comparing a modern representative democracy like the U.S. to Nazi Germany?? Really???
FAIL.

 

[JBeukema]

Sorry, my slumlord friend, but it's the law

 

[BlindBoo]

The law? Which law?

 

[Flopper]

If enough people obey only what they consider to be good laws, the result will be anarchy. However sometimes the only way a bad law get changed is through disobedience.

 

[The Rabbi]

Key word is "Sometimes." The class of laws that require civil disobedience is tiny in our society.
Of course the hypocrite JPukema cannot distinguish between a just society like the U.S. and an unjust one like Nazi Germany. It's all the same.