we need to address the disparity in “ownership and equity” in the United States...

[daveman]

At what point does a statist, a member of the political class, a liberal admit that something isn't working and what it replaced was far superior?

Never. They have only two thoughts:

1. It didn't work because conservatives didn't let it work.

2. Throw more tax money at it.

 

[Foxfyre]

At what point does a statist, a member of the political class, a liberal admit that something isn't working and what it replaced was far superior?

Never. They have only two thoughts:

1. It didn't work because conservatives didn't let it work.

2. Throw more tax money at it.

Oh good. They almost had me convinced it was all George Bush's fault.

 

[daveman]

At what point does a statist, a member of the political class, a liberal admit that something isn't working and what it replaced was far superior?

Never. They have only two thoughts:

1. It didn't work because conservatives didn't let it work.

2. Throw more tax money at it.

Oh good. They almost had me convinced it was all George Bush's fault.

Oh, they'll try desperately to make that case...but it usually just makes them look silly.

 

[saveliberty]

Never. They have only two thoughts:

1. It didn't work because conservatives didn't let it work.

2. Throw more tax money at it.

Oh good. They almost had me convinced it was all George Bush's fault.

Oh, they'll try desperately to make that case...but it usually just makes them look silly.

Careful, somebody's going to call you a racist any minute now. hehe

If I understand the President correctly, voters are supposed to hang in there with him to complete the last 30% of his agenda. He has already trumpeted his 70% completion back in August. What is the unemployment goal? 8% by November 2012?

 

[daveman]

Oh good. They almost had me convinced it was all George Bush's fault.

Oh, they'll try desperately to make that case...but it usually just makes them look silly.

Careful, somebody's going to call you a racist any minute now. hehe

Only 6% of conservatives aren't racist.

Or so I hear.

If I understand the President correctly, voters are supposed to hang in there with him to complete the last 30% of his agenda. He has already trumpeted his 70% completion back in August. What is the unemployment goal? 8% by November 2012?

The President wants Americans to STFU and do what they're told.

Some people are willing to do that. They want to be subjects, not citizens.

The rest don't He's going to be disappointed.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The reason the superwealthy are superwealthy can usually be traced back to their connections to government.

AFter all, the market is designed and modified by the government policies and laws.

The last thing the superwealthy really want is a level playing field without government interference working on their behalf.

I'm not sure that such a thing as a level playing field can really exist in a modern society, anyway, but there are issues of the DEGREE to which grant some of us advantages, and personally, I think we've gone overboard thanks to SUPPLY SIDE economic policies.

We are in a DEPRESSION right now, because of the pernicious long term effects of income and asset inequity that were advanced by government policies and tax laws over at least the last 40 years.

More whining and carping. Offer up a solution or at least and idea of how YOU would close the "wealth gap"..
Complaining about it awards you a "shut the hell up".
I am sick and tired of individuals crying a river over what they don't have and over what others have.
If you don't like having less, get off your ass and earn more.

 

[thereisnospoon]

#1 The education would be even worse WITHOUT the U.S. Dept of Education

#2 There's nothing intrinsic about the government that makes it bad at fostering education.

#3 THe welfare myth is just that...a myth. I've already posted info on the fact, but apparently it got sidestepped above. I know you all think that lazy bums are the reason why the country is in the tank, but it's not. It's bad government.

I'm not saying there aren't lazy bums, but they're not the huge problem you're making them out to be in this thread.

Let me go back to #2 and #3. If the government can't get anything right...ever...then you're for anarchy. You're to the point that you think the entire country has totally degraded to where nothing we can do together ever matters.

That's pretty sad, really.

The federal government has NO BUISINESS involving itself in local school districts. That is a State responsibility. Foe decades the US DOE has stuck it's nose into local schools and the result is more red tape, more rules, and more headaches.
Now the DOJ is ordering scholl districts to use racial quotas in discipline.
For example, if a schoold district has 33% black students and black students make up 45% of those students suspended from school, the DOJ claims that is a civil rights violation.
Additionally, schools MAY NOT call the police even if a minority student becomes unmanagable. The only instance where the police may be called is if a student or faculty member is injured.
This is political correctness run amok.

What makes you think the US Federal government does a good job at anything?
Did you know that the ferderal government must pay contractors even if their contracted projects are behind schedule and over budget? There is nothing in place to stop gap contractors that run behind or over budget.
I am not against government. What I despise is arrogant politicians and the fiefdoms set up by government employees. The above waste money, are inefficient and greedy to a fault.
It is the way government operates which most Americans are pissed off about.
They see their hard earned money taken form them and thrown down any number of ratholes. Quite frankly, we're sick of it.
11 days from now, new people will be asked to hep run the government. We'll be watching. And if they don't do it right, we'll trade them in for new models. And we'll keep trading them in until we get government back to what it is supposed to do. That is work for US. Right now it's the other way around. And it sucks sideways.

 

[daveman]

The reason the superwealthy are superwealthy can usually be traced back to their connections to government.

AFter all, the market is designed and modified by the government policies and laws.

The last thing the superwealthy really want is a level playing field without government interference working on their behalf.

I'm not sure that such a thing as a level playing field can really exist in a modern society, anyway, but there are issues of the DEGREE to which grant some of us advantages, and personally, I think we've gone overboard thanks to SUPPLY SIDE economic policies.

We are in a DEPRESSION right now, because of the pernicious long term effects of income and asset inequity that were advanced by government policies and tax laws over at least the last 40 years.

More whining and carping. Offer up a solution or at least and idea of how YOU would close the "wealth gap"..
Complaining about it awards you a "shut the hell up".
I am sick and tired of individuals crying a river over what they don't have and over what others have.
If you don't like having less, get off your ass and earn more.

He can't. THE MAN is keeping him down.

At least, that's what he tells himself.

 

[Vanquish]

#1 The education would be even worse WITHOUT the U.S. Dept of Education

#2 There's nothing intrinsic about the government that makes it bad at fostering education.

#3 THe welfare myth is just that...a myth. I've already posted info on the fact, but apparently it got sidestepped above. I know you all think that lazy bums are the reason why the country is in the tank, but it's not. It's bad government.

I'm not saying there aren't lazy bums, but they're not the huge problem you're making them out to be in this thread.

Let me go back to #2 and #3. If the government can't get anything right...ever...then you're for anarchy. You're to the point that you think the entire country has totally degraded to where nothing we can do together ever matters.

That's pretty sad, really.

The federal government has NO BUISINESS involving itself in local school districts. That is a State responsibility. Foe decades the US DOE has stuck it's nose into local schools and the result is more red tape, more rules, and more headaches.
Now the DOJ is ordering scholl districts to use racial quotas in discipline.
For example, if a schoold district has 33% black students and black students make up 45% of those students suspended from school, the DOJ claims that is a civil rights violation.
Additionally, schools MAY NOT call the police even if a minority student becomes unmanagable. The only instance where the police may be called is if a student or faculty member is injured.
This is political correctness run amok.

What makes you think the US Federal government does a good job at anything?
Did you know that the ferderal government must pay contractors even if their contracted projects are behind schedule and over budget? There is nothing in place to stop gap contractors that run behind or over budget.
I am not against government. What I despise is arrogant politicians and the fiefdoms set up by government employees. The above waste money, are inefficient and greedy to a fault.
It is the way government operates which most Americans are pissed off about.
They see their hard earned money taken form them and thrown down any number of ratholes. Quite frankly, we're sick of it.
11 days from now, new people will be asked to hep run the government. We'll be watching. And if they don't do it right, we'll trade them in for new models. And we'll keep trading them in until we get government back to what it is supposed to do. That is work for US. Right now it's the other way around. And it sucks sideways.

You've failed to prove that there is ANYTHING inherent in the federal government that makes it bad at school improvement.

The whole reason why you have a government...and elect good, smart people, is to improve the status quo. Again, if you don't think government is good for anything at all...you're for no government at all...and you're against the will of the people who want a government for the people, by the people, and of the people.

The racial quotas for discipline do sound pretty stupid. But do you have a better solution for combating racism? I'm guessing you're not black so it's pretty easy to answer that with an "I dont know but it doesnt matter" answer.

Racism is real and it affects children who can't defend themselves like adults can. Does it mean we just lose all sense of reality to combat it? No. Does it mean that white guilt should make everything easy for minorities? Fuck no. But until there's a better solution...percentages are the way we wrap our heads around protecting people.

 

[saveliberty]

Where are educational rights in the US Constitution Vanquish? Anything not specified in that falls to the individual or state.

 

[Vanquish]

That's the point of Congress being able to Tax and Spend. See Congress can either tax something to make people stop doing it....or they can pay off the states (e.g. Pass a law that says you can't drink until 21 if you want highway improvement money) to what they want.

That's how it works. And yeah, Tax and Spend is in the constitution. Next?

 

[Foxfyre]

You've failed to prove that there is ANYTHING inherent in the federal government that makes it bad at school improvement.

I refer you to student test scores in the 40's, 50's and 60's compared to those in the 80's, 90's and 2000's. I refer you to Thomas Sowell PhD who has done exhaustive research on education in America and has written two excellent books on that subject. Those along with his newest book Dismantling America tell the story quite well. He recounts his experience in an inner NYC segregated school in the 40's. He said sometimes his 'black' school was a bit ahead of the nearby white kids' school; sometimes the other school was ahead. And he received an education that equipped him to compete with anybody. Now schools are graduating barely literate kids ill equipped to compete anywhere. He places the reason mostly squarely at the feet of increasing federal government involvement.

The whole reason why you have a government...and elect good, smart people, is to improve the status quo. Again, if you don't think government is good for anything at all...you're for no government at all...and you're against the will of the people who want a government for the people, by the people, and of the people.

That may be why YOU elect people to government. Too many elect people they believe will directly benefit them with benefits and privileges. People like me try to elect people who know that government will never provide for the people as well as they can provide for themselves given opportunity to do so. Government will never spend the people's money as wisely or efficiently or effectively as the people will spend their own money themselves.

And people like me don't jump on the liberal stupidity that says that if you want government to do much MUCH less than it does, that you are a government hater and want to do away with all government. So please don't even go there.

The racial quotas for discipline do sound pretty stupid. But do you have a better solution for combating racism? I'm guessing you're not black so it's pretty easy to answer that with an "I dont know but it doesnt matter" answer.

We have already expended the blood and treasure of hundreds of thousands of Americans to end slavery and fought the subsequent wars to end segregation and discrimination. Those battles have been fought and won. The ONLY way to combat racism now is to stop making it an issue and allow people to treat people of whatever color the same as all other people. As long as there is fame, prestige, power, and money in keeping issues of racism alive and well, there will be racism.

Racism is real and it affects children who can't defend themselves like adults can. Does it mean we just lose all sense of reality to combat it? No. Does it mean that white guilt should make everything easy for minorities? Fuck no. But until there's a better solution...percentages are the way we wrap our heads around protecting people.

Percentages single out and separate people and keep resentments and sense of entitlement alive and well along as promoting fame, power, prestige, and material wealth to those who use racism as a tool to benefit themselves. We should stop doing that for the benefit of the children and everybody else.

 

[code1211]

Vanquish Post ends here=============================

The USA spends more money on educating any individual through grade 12 than any other country on the planet and any other in the history of the planet.

In spite of this, by the end of Grade 12 we usually rank in the high teens to low 20's behind such economic powerhouses as Croatia or Singapore.

The government, which has no economic interest in controllling costs, negotiates with the teacher's unions that have no economic interest in controlling costs. Governor Christie famously asked the teachers union for concessions and got none. It was small and related to benefits, I think. The union quashed it and it ended up costing the union hundreds of teacher jobs as they were laid off to make the budget.

The government may not be incompetent at educating kids. They have yet to prove they are competent and, to the contrary, every year prove they don't care if the costs go up, don't care if the students graduate illiterate, don't care if the public has to pay more and don't care if the product of their efforts is competing less effectively against the international students who are educated more completely, in greater depth and at a lower cost than the Americans.

You seem convinced that the American education system is perfectly adequate to compete in the International education sweepstakes and yet the educators are at least as concerned with the feel good stuff as the get smart stuff. How many languages, math courses, science courses, accounting courses, business courses are Americans required to take in the K-12 system?

Saying it's so don't make it so. It's a complex world. I get it. If kids need to feel good about school, then give them the opportunity to achieve and reward them for the achievement.

 

[Big Fitz]

Yes. The Left would rather give a man a government fish every day. The Right would rather teach him to fish so he can catch his own.

Due to budget cuts, it will be one fish every other day for a family of less than 3, gets two fishes every three days for a family of 4 and a single mother crackhead with 5 kids will get twelve fishes.

We must save and protect the most needy among us. To hell with the most productive and best achievers. They're just greedy bastards who stole from the poor anyway.

The hell of it is, there are people who really believe that shit.

yes, there are. We need a test for potential elected officials on the purpose and function of government. If they cannot get at least a passing grade of 70% or better, they can't run for office. It would include sections on American Govenment, Economics, Ethics, the founding fathers and American History from Jamestown on forward.

Cheating on the test would be a felony with heavy jail time and barring from government work/office for all involved at all levels for life.

Nothing like a basic competency exam.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Due to budget cuts, it will be one fish every other day for a family of less than 3, gets two fishes every three days for a family of 4 and a single mother crackhead with 5 kids will get twelve fishes.

We must save and protect the most needy among us. To hell with the most productive and best achievers. They're just greedy bastards who stole from the poor anyway.

The hell of it is, there are people who really believe that shit.

yes, there are. We need a test for potential elected officials on the purpose and function of government. If they cannot get at least a passing grade of 70% or better, they can't run for office. It would include sections on American Govenment, Economics, Ethics, the founding fathers and American History from Jamestown on forward.

Cheating on the test would be a felony with heavy jail time and barring from government work/office for all involved at all levels for life.

Nothing like a basic competency exam.

Yes. Not only do I pay taxes to fund these freedloaders, on Monday I will open a bank account. I will call it punishemnt for being highly trained and skilled at my job. I will take 50% of what's left after Uncle Sam and my state of residence collect their dowery and give that money dorectly to nearest Social Services office, the big building with the full parking lot.
Imagine that. Social Services. Where people go to apply for their turn at the taxpayer tit.
Irony. These people all have cars. Most of them make car payments. Now this is a head scratcher. They need public assistance to eat, but have money for car payments. What's wrong with that picture?

 

[daveman]

yes, there are. We need a test for potential elected officials on the purpose and function of government. If they cannot get at least a passing grade of 70% or better, they can't run for office. It would include sections on American Govenment, Economics, Ethics, the founding fathers and American History from Jamestown on forward.

Cheating on the test would be a felony with heavy jail time and barring from government work/office for all involved at all levels for life.

Nothing like a basic competency exam.

I'd be willing to bet that fully 85% of current federal, state, and local elected officials would fail that test today.

 

[Big Fitz]

yes, there are. We need a test for potential elected officials on the purpose and function of government. If they cannot get at least a passing grade of 70% or better, they can't run for office. It would include sections on American Govenment, Economics, Ethics, the founding fathers and American History from Jamestown on forward.

Cheating on the test would be a felony with heavy jail time and barring from government work/office for all involved at all levels for life.

Nothing like a basic competency exam.

I'd be willing to bet that fully 85% of current federal, state, and local elected officials would fail that test today.

you're much more the optimist than me.

 

[daveman]

yes, there are. We need a test for potential elected officials on the purpose and function of government. If they cannot get at least a passing grade of 70% or better, they can't run for office. It would include sections on American Govenment, Economics, Ethics, the founding fathers and American History from Jamestown on forward.

Cheating on the test would be a felony with heavy jail time and barring from government work/office for all involved at all levels for life.

Nothing like a basic competency exam.

I'd be willing to bet that fully 85% of current federal, state, and local elected officials would fail that test today.

you're much more the optimist than me.

Possibly. There are a few out there who would pass the test.

Can't think of any offhand, though...

 

[The Rabbi]

In her latest stunning declaration, San Francisco socialist Nancy Pelosi told the Steelworkers Union on Monday, that we need to address the disparity in “ownership and equity” in the United States.

“We’re talking about addressing the disparity of income where the wealthy people continue to get wealthier and some other people are falling out of the middle class when we want to bring many more people into the middle class. But that disparity is not just about wages alone, that disparity is about ownership and equity. It’s all about fairness in our country,”

I think the Democrats' ownership of House Congressional seats is about to be redistributed, and Pelosi's chairmanship will be "spread around." So long, motherfuckers.

 

[Big Fitz]

I'd be willing to bet that fully 85% of current federal, state, and local elected officials would fail that test today.

you're much more the optimist than me.

Possibly. There are a few out there who would pass the test.

Can't think of any offhand, though...

Rand Paul, Ron Paul, Michelle Bachmann, Paul Ryan, Daniel Issa, Jim DeMint, James Inhofe maybe?