We need less college and more reality

[BorisTheAnimal]

This is a subject I've discussed before with several of my FB friends. My current occupation with the NFTA has me convinced more than ever that vocational/ trades careers are not being emphasized enough in the schools because in my opinion it's always "college this and college that". Has been since even before I was a senior some 32 years ago. And that is doing a disservice to our people. No wonder why the building trades are in such high demand right now-shortage of new apprentices to bring up in the ranks. NFTA is experiencing a driver shortage, as is all student, transit, and motorcoach companies/agencies. For example, even with my class and the next two classes behind me, there won't be enough drivers to cover the extra board for very long. Again, if a 19-21 year old has his/her license, that person can easily turn a 35-40 year career and not be saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in college loan debt and a worthless degree. I'm not knocking college, there are fields that require a degree, but why push it as the end all to a better life?

 

[bullwinkle]

This is a subject I've discussed before with several of my FB friends. My current occupation with the NFTA has me convinced more than ever that vocational/ trades careers are not being emphasized enough in the schools because in my opinion it's always "college this and college that". Has been since even before I was a senior some 32 years ago. And that is doing a disservice to our people. No wonder why the building trades are in such high demand right now-shortage of new apprentices to bring up in the ranks. NFTA is experiencing a driver shortage, as is all student, transit, and motorcoach companies/agencies. For example, even with my class and the next two classes behind me, there won't be enough drivers to cover the extra board for very long. Again, if a 19-21 year old has his/her license, that person can easily turn a 35-40 year career and not be saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in college loan debt and a worthless degree. I'm not knocking college, there are fields that require a degree, but why push it as the end all to a better life?

If I had it to do over, I'd go into the trades...a plumber maybe. OTR driving scares me though, if you are talking tractor-trailers. I am so impressed by them in their city driving, but I always stay at least a car length back from the line to give them room if I see a one waiting to make a turn at a city light. And if behind one at a stop light, I always allow for rollback. These guys are maestros at pulling into spaces that I can hardly maneuver with my VW and I have a lot of respect for their work.

 

[theHawk]

Colleges are just garbage now, run by a bunch of brain dead Marxists. You’re much better off joining the military and learning a useful trade.

Hopefully the whole university system will crash and give way to internet learning. Why pay tens of thousands of dollars to go to a university when you can lean almost everything at a library and on-line?

 

[boedicca]

One of my nephews decided to skip college and learn a trade a few years ago. He now makes more than the Stanford Phd scientists who work at my company who are his age. And he's not saddled with $100K plus of student loans.

 

[dblack]

We all have our wants and needs.

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

This is a subject I've discussed before with several of my FB friends. My current occupation with the NFTA has me convinced more than ever that vocational/ trades careers are not being emphasized enough in the schools because in my opinion it's always "college this and college that". Has been since even before I was a senior some 32 years ago. And that is doing a disservice to our people. No wonder why the building trades are in such high demand right now-shortage of new apprentices to bring up in the ranks. NFTA is experiencing a driver shortage, as is all student, transit, and motorcoach companies/agencies. For example, even with my class and the next two classes behind me, there won't be enough drivers to cover the extra board for very long. Again, if a 19-21 year old has his/her license, that person can easily turn a 35-40 year career and not be saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in college loan debt and a worthless degree. I'm not knocking college, there are fields that require a degree, but why push it as the end all to a better life?

If I had it to do over, I'd go into the trades...a plumber maybe. OTR driving scares me though, if you are talking tractor-trailers. I am so impressed by them in their city driving, but I always stay at least a car length back from the line to give them room if I see a one waiting to make a turn at a city light. And if behind one at a stop light, I always allow for rollback. These guys are maestros at pulling into spaces that I can hardly maneuver with my VW and I have a lot of respect for their work.

I drive 30 and 40 foot X 102" wide transit buses. And some of the spaces we have to maneuver around would be enough to make your hair stand on edge.

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

Colleges are just garbage now, run by a bunch of brain dead Marxists. You’re much better off joining the military and learning a useful trade.

Hopefully the whole university system will crash and give way to internet learning. Why pay tens of thousands of dollars to go to a university when you can lean almost everything at a library and on-line?

Let my play devil's advocate for a nanosecond. What about certain professions that require post-secondary and post-graduate education?

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

This is a subject I've discussed before with several of my FB friends. My current occupation with the NFTA has me convinced more than ever that vocational/ trades careers are not being emphasized enough in the schools because in my opinion it's always "college this and college that". Has been since even before I was a senior some 32 years ago. And that is doing a disservice to our people. No wonder why the building trades are in such high demand right now-shortage of new apprentices to bring up in the ranks. NFTA is experiencing a driver shortage, as is all student, transit, and motorcoach companies/agencies. For example, even with my class and the next two classes behind me, there won't be enough drivers to cover the extra board for very long. Again, if a 19-21 year old has his/her license, that person can easily turn a 35-40 year career and not be saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in college loan debt and a worthless degree. I'm not knocking college, there are fields that require a degree, but why push it as the end all to a better life?

If I had it to do over, I'd go into the trades...a plumber maybe. OTR driving scares me though, if you are talking tractor-trailers. I am so impressed by them in their city driving, but I always stay at least a car length back from the line to give them room if I see a one waiting to make a turn at a city light. And if behind one at a stop light, I always allow for rollback. These guys are maestros at pulling into spaces that I can hardly maneuver with my VW and I have a lot of respect for their work.

Right there, you already have the instincts of a Commercial driver.

 

[bullwinkle]

Colleges are just garbage now, run by a bunch of brain dead Marxists. You’re much better off joining the military and learning a useful trade.

Hopefully the whole university system will crash and give way to internet learning. Why pay tens of thousands of dollars to go to a university when you can lean almost everything at a library and on-line?

Galt, it isn't either/or. We have needs that require college as in law and medicine and research. Heck, even a mechanic has to be a tech anymore. The days of a high school kid tinkering around under the hood are long gone. And for all our nostalgia, cars ARE better these days, although few use all the bells and whistles available whether you want them or not.

 

[MarathonMike]

The marketing won't stop because colleges need to keep the pipeline filled. The narrative will always be "You gotta go to college to be a success". But As many have already said you can be very successful in the trades and you won't have six figures of debt hanging around your neck for 10 or 20 years.

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

Colleges are just garbage now, run by a bunch of brain dead Marxists. You’re much better off joining the military and learning a useful trade.

Hopefully the whole university system will crash and give way to internet learning. Why pay tens of thousands of dollars to go to a university when you can lean almost everything at a library and on-line?

Galt, it isn't either/or. We have needs that require college as in law and medicine and research. Heck, even a mechanic has to be a tech anymore. The days of a high school kid tinkering around under the hood are long gone. And for all our nostalgia, cars ARE better these days, although few use all the bells and whistles available whether you want them or not.

Even in my field, we aren't "bus drivers" anymore, but "transit operators". And it takes a considerable amount of skill and yes, training to not only maneuver/control the vehicle, but especially the riding public. Once upon a time, transit operators' only concerns were that the correct change was deposited into the farebox, transfers issued, and everyone sit or stand in their places. Now, we have buses that are ADA accessible, so we have to service disabled passengers, passengers with other unique needs, etc. Also, gone is the political patronage. Back in the bad old days it wasn't "what you knew, but who you blew". Now, the hiring process is changed to ensure the best qualified candidates are hired.

 

[BorisTheAnimal]

The marketing won't stop because colleges need to keep the pipeline filled. The narrative will always be "You gotta go to college to be a success". But As many have already said you can be very successful in the trades and you won't have six figures of debt hanging around your neck for 10 or 20 years.

I think people are beginning to realize that now and colleges are threatened by it.

 

[Winston]

Colleges are just garbage now, run by a bunch of brain dead Marxists. You’re much better off joining the military and learning a useful trade.

Hopefully the whole university system will crash and give way to internet learning. Why pay tens of thousands of dollars to go to a university when you can lean almost everything at a library and on-line?

Pretty funny. Seems many Americans believe you, especially the white ones. My son is working full time and looking to get his Phd in Materials Science. He is being recruited, almost like he is some star athlete, by some of the highest rated universities in the country. It is not his undergraduate grades, not his test scores, some of those universities have said flat out they don't care what those scores are. He is a minority. He is an American and he is white. They are few and far between in graduate engineering studies.

 

[bullwinkle]

Colleges are just garbage now, run by a bunch of brain dead Marxists. You’re much better off joining the military and learning a useful trade.

Hopefully the whole university system will crash and give way to internet learning. Why pay tens of thousands of dollars to go to a university when you can lean almost everything at a library and on-line?

Galt, it isn't either/or. We have needs that require college as in law and medicine and research. Heck, even a mechanic has to be a tech anymore. The days of a high school kid tinkering around under the hood are long gone. And for all our nostalgia, cars ARE better these days, although few use all the bells and whistles available whether you want them or not.

Even in my field, we aren't "bus drivers" anymore, but "transit operators". And it takes a considerable amount of skill and yes, training to not only maneuver/control the vehicle, but especially the riding public. Once upon a time, transit operators' only concerns were that the correct change was deposited into the farebox, transfers issued, and everyone sit or stand in their places. Now, we have buses that are ADA accessible, so we have to service disabled passengers, passengers with other unique needs, etc. Also, gone is the political patronage. Back in the bad old days it wasn't "what you knew, but who you blew". Now, the hiring process is changed to ensure the best qualified candidates are hired.

Well I salute you! Not only for the hardship of driving in traffic that seldom gives you a break or for the extra care you cite for passengers, but also for the grumps and the drunks you have to ignore unless they get rowdy. Kudos!

 

[MarathonMike]

Unless you are getting a technical, science, finance or law degree you need to think really hard about how that Liberal Arts degree with the huge price tag is going to help you get ahead.

 

[DGS49]

Consider the history of today's institutions of "higher learning."

In the 50's and 60's, there were enough seats nation-wide for about a fourth of each years high school grads, and a fairly significant percentage of them would not graduate, due to rigorous academic requirements and life-issues. There were essentially no "community colleges" as those institutions exist now.

Along comes Vietnam, and two major factors change the whole picture. First, the population explosion of the Baby Boom dramatically increases the number of HS grads coming to college age, and Second, the DRAFT induced many people who previously would not have considered college ("...not college material...") to want very much to go there.

So the colleges expanded dramatically to accommodate the influx of many more students than had historically enrolled.

Then the college instructors and professors collectively had a stunning realization: Young Men who failed out (heretofore a significant percentage) had a "good chance" of being immediately drafted and KILLED IN VIETNAM! And no professor wanted this on his conscience. At the same time, the Business Types in the colleges realized that academic attrition - you know: maintaining academic standards and expelling those who could not meet them - was COSTING THE INSTITUTIONS MONEY! These people had to be RETAINED!

To illustrate, I personally enrolled at the University of Pittsburgh in the fall of 1967. At the time, the University proudly claimed that most of the Freshman class would not graduate, due to their high standards and academic attrition. My academic career cratered during the one year I went there (for reasons I won't go into), and I went into the Army. 8 years later, I had completed two years of community college and went to finish up my Bachelor's degree at Pitt.

It was no longer possible to fail out. Oh, I suppose someone who WANTED to fail could do it, but with the lax grading, bullshit courses, and the the ability to withdraw without penalty if you were doing badly in a course, anyone who wanted to stay at Pitt could do so forever, without fear of academic expulsion. Hmmm.

So now move the clock forward a few years...the Baby Boom is dying out and the following generations do not have the same number of graduating HS seniors. BUT THE COLLEGES HAVE SEATS TO FILL!!! Do you think they are going to "downsize" to meet declining needs? Are you kidding?

Of course not. They lower their standards even more, introduce bullshit majors and lolly-pop courses, hire sales and marketing people to run their "admissions" offices, and take, basically, ANYONE WHO CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY TO PAY THE TUITION.

So do you think a BA degree in 2018 represents the same sort of academic accomplishment as one from 1965? Other than in the STEM subjects, I would venture to say that a BA degree in 2018 represents a level of academic rigor that would have barely got one through a "good" public high school in 1965.

Obviously, I'm old and jaded.

 

[Shrimpbox]

I still contend that the Dems are scamming the whole country. You must go to college, you have to borrow from us to do it, and you have to ingest 100% leftist propaganda while you are there. Of course they will always hold the carrot of student loan forgiveness to keep them on the plantation. College will kill any independence of spirit and turn them into drones. All one has to do is note college educated women are against trump to prove my point.

 

[Wry Catcher]

This is a subject I've discussed before with several of my FB friends. My current occupation with the NFTA has me convinced more than ever that vocational/ trades careers are not being emphasized enough in the schools because in my opinion it's always "college this and college that". Has been since even before I was a senior some 32 years ago. And that is doing a disservice to our people. No wonder why the building trades are in such high demand right now-shortage of new apprentices to bring up in the ranks. NFTA is experiencing a driver shortage, as is all student, transit, and motorcoach companies/agencies. For example, even with my class and the next two classes behind me, there won't be enough drivers to cover the extra board for very long. Again, if a 19-21 year old has his/her license, that person can easily turn a 35-40 year career and not be saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in college loan debt and a worthless degree. I'm not knocking college, there are fields that require a degree, but why push it as the end all to a better life?

Everyone needs to be able to read and comprehend what they read; compute, both on a keyboard and with pencil and paper; take courses in Civics and Economics and be able to write an expository essay. That said, for every AP course in, for example, Physics, there needs to be a general science course which covers Physics and Chemistry; for every AP course in Calculus, there needs to be courses in basic math, incl. accounting and pre algebra.

Polythecnic high schools are few and there needs to be more, courses in all aspects which can ferment an interest in not only the trades, but in medical and other white collar technical skills.

 

[anotherlife]

Colleges are just garbage now, run by a bunch of brain dead Marxists. You’re much better off joining the military and learning a useful trade.

Hopefully the whole university system will crash and give way to internet learning. Why pay tens of thousands of dollars to go to a university when you can lean almost everything at a library and on-line?

Don't worry, then the online courses will be tens of thousands of dollars. Since everyone gets a loan ... Hehehe.

 

[gtopa1]

I went to Uni OK in the 70s but had to develop critical thinking; what sells to which lecturer. I got it really wrong once; thought a "numbers" man Economist was marking my paper but it went to a Marxist asshole. He panned it as being "too mathematical". Still passed but was really pissed off. I wanted a really top grade for that one.


Greg