We need illeagle aliens

[OCA]

Two facts that cannot be disputed.

1. Removal of all illegal aliens(which is impossible and will never, ever happen) would devastate the economies of several western states one of which is California, the seventh largest economy on the planet in and of itself.

2. There are no native born Americans competing for the same jobs as illegals. Find me somebody, anybody legal who will work sunup to sundown picking vegetables in 100 degree heat and Kagom will toss your salad.

 

[left alone]

So, what do you want from us - "Atta boy, left alone"?

Atta boy, left alone! Hire those illegals! Get yours!

You got to be faking it. You can't possibly be that thick sculled or stupid. This isn't about money. Never was. Re-read the posts. Or are you just bitter?

Please re-read and address post #6.

 

[musicman]

I guess I'm just trying to understand what left alone is looking for here. Validation? Absolution? A fucking medal, maybe?

 

[musicman]

You can't possibly be that thick sculled or stupid.

That's funny.

 

[Abbey Normal]

You got to be faking it. You can't possibly be that thick sculled or stupid. This isn't about money. Never was. Re-read the posts. Or are you just bitter?

Please re-read and address post #6.

Now that is funny. Musicman is one of the most intelligent and insightful posters on this board.

 

[Hobbit]

A few facts about illegals.

1. As has been listed, illegals cost billions a year. If they were eliminated from the equation, the elimination of those costs would more than make up for any increase in the price of goods.

2. Legal immigration is perfectly fine, and would be more common if this country wasn't busting at the seams with illegals.

3. The Mexican government has started using our poorly guarded southern border as a crutch. Their corrupt system has created the underproductive Mexican society, and now they're stuck with a bunch of poor, destitute citizens that they can't handle, so they give them maps of the desert and tips on how to sneak across. If you want to help these people, letting them across isn't the answer. Telling Vicente Fox to deal with his own damn problems is.

4. A disproportionate number of illegal immigrants commit violent crime, and many of them smuggle in drugs in return for the means to cross. Rarely are those convicted of violent crimes deported, and those who are usually end up right back in the states.

5. Money sent from the U.S. to Mexico is one of the few things keeping their economy afloat in the midst of the intense corruption, with government officials growing rich off of bribes and embezzlement. If this source of cash was to stop, it might force Mexico to actually clean up their act.

6. Mexican officials also have no respect for the border. Police in border regions regularly hop the fence to arrest American citizens and basically hold them for ransom. The Mexican Army is also known to escort shipments of drugs into the country.

7. As seen recently on Hannity and Colmes, there are INS warehouses with tens of billions of dollars is seized cash, drugs, weapons, and other contraband being smuggled into the country. This is just what we've found, so imagine what's already through.

Having a seive-like border hurts American, period, and it needs to be fixed. What politicians don't realize is that you're not going to lose the Hispanic vote for that, since Hispanics who can vote got here legally and resent how easily it is to get here illegally. Of those Hispanics who can vote, more than half want the border controlled, and most of the rest don't have a position on the issue.

 

[OCA]

A few facts about illegals.

1. As has been listed, illegals cost billions a year. If they were eliminated from the equation, the elimination of those costs would more than make up for any increase in the price of goods.

2. Legal immigration is perfectly fine, and would be more common if this country wasn't busting at the seams with illegals.

3. The Mexican government has started using our poorly guarded southern border as a crutch. Their corrupt system has created the underproductive Mexican society, and now they're stuck with a bunch of poor, destitute citizens that they can't handle, so they give them maps of the desert and tips on how to sneak across. If you want to help these people, letting them across isn't the answer. Telling Vicente Fox to deal with his own damn problems is.

4. A disproportionate number of illegal immigrants commit violent crime, and many of them smuggle in drugs in return for the means to cross. Rarely are those convicted of violent crimes deported, and those who are usually end up right back in the states.

5. Money sent from the U.S. to Mexico is one of the few things keeping their economy afloat in the midst of the intense corruption, with government officials growing rich off of bribes and embezzlement. If this source of cash was to stop, it might force Mexico to actually clean up their act.

6. Mexican officials also have no respect for the border. Police in border regions regularly hop the fence to arrest American citizens and basically hold them for ransom. The Mexican Army is also known to escort shipments of drugs into the country.

7. As seen recently on Hannity and Colmes, there are INS warehouses with tens of billions of dollars is seized cash, drugs, weapons, and other contraband being smuggled into the country. This is just what we've found, so imagine what's already through.

Having a seive-like border hurts American, period, and it needs to be fixed. What politicians don't realize is that you're not going to lose the Hispanic vote for that, since Hispanics who can vote got here legally and resent how easily it is to get here illegally. Of those Hispanics who can vote, more than half want the border controlled, and most of the rest don't have a position on the issue.

You think any accrued savings would be seen by the consumer? It would go straight into political pockets. Anyway its a moot point because it will never happen, logistically speaking its impossible. Just a matter of time until amnesty is accepted.

 

[left alone]

Whats the difference economically, between legal or illegal immigrants? There are generations of people born here that are willing to work too cheap, have no education or refuse to pay the proper taxes.
There are many people that support a grandmother in Korea or a sister in Cuba. Why is sending money to Mexico different?
Our prisons are full of American born crooks, thieves and murders yet if this forum were to be believed foreign born bad guys cost us more than natural born bad guys.

 

[Annie]

I think that if the eagles are ill, we should help them - no matter what planet they're from.

:clap1: :clap1:

 

[nosarcasm]

you can have a legal farm workers program. Germany's fields are picked by
the polish, they come for the summer, leave in the end of fall and live like
kings in Poland. Soon the EU will mess up the arrangement but still it
shows it is unnecessary to go with the tolerate illegals policy.

 

[007]

You got to be faking it. You can't possibly be that thick sculled or stupid. This isn't about money. Never was. Re-read the posts. Or are you just bitter?

Please re-read and address post #6.

Listen you fucking liberal cherry... before you come in here and start calling our good, old, members your favorite bitch names, why don't YOU start by addressing posts number 2 and 3!

 

[007]

Illegal Immigrants At Least $10 Billion Net Cost At Federal Level

The Center for Immigration Studies has a new study on the costs to the federal government of illegal aliens written by Steven A. Camarota. The net cost of illegal immigrants to the US government is conservatively at least $10 billion per year.

This study is one of the first to estimate the total impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget. Most previous studies have focused on the state and local level and have examined only costs or tax payments, but not both. Based on Census Bureau data, this study finds that, when all taxes paid (direct and indirect) and all costs are considered, illegal households created a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion in 2002. We also estimate that, if there was an amnesty for illegal aliens, the net fiscal deficit would grow to nearly $29 billion.

Among the findings:

• Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.

• Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

• With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.

• On average, the costs that illegal households impose on federal coffers are less than half that of other households, but their tax payments are only one-fourth that of other households.

• Many of the costs associated with illegals are due to their American-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth. Thus, greater efforts at barring illegals from federal programs will not reduce costs because their citizen children can continue to access them.

• If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.

• Costs increase dramatically because unskilled immigrants with legal status — what most illegal aliens would become — can access government programs, but still tend to make very modest tax payments.

• Although legalization would increase average tax payments by 77 percent, average costs would rise by 118 percent.


A few points to note about this study:

They do not appear to have factored in costs and revenues at the state and local levels of government. So, for example, most of the costs of educating the children of illegal aliens are not included. Higher law enforcement costs for the local commuities due to higher crime rates among illegals are similarly not included.
The costs that victims pay (emotional, financial and from loss of loved ones) from crime is not factored in.
The need to build more public infrastructure such as roads and schools due to immigrant population growth does not appear to be included. Los Angeles is currently in the middle of a $10 billion school building project due to illegal immigrant-caused population growth.
The cost of racial preferences is not factored in. The bigger the Hispanic population gets the higher the costs that Caucasians and East Asians and South Asians will have to pay for racial preferences. Businesses and governments will run less efficiency as larger portions of their work forces are hired to satisfy quotas and so-called "diversity" goals.
Environmental costs are not considered. The higher the population density gets the higher the costs must be per person to keep total pollution down.
The problem caused by illegal immigration does not last only until descendant generations get educated to American levels. As Steve Sailer points out the Hispanic-white achievement gap is going to prevent Hsipanics as a group from ever rising to white levels of education, income, and tax paying.

Recently, while browsing Tom Wood's new "Right on Race" blog, I had a chance to ask Stefan Thernstrom what the NAEP data actually showed. He graciously provided the following raw data, to which I've added some straightforward calculations. (Number fans click here for table).

Conclusion: overall, the white-immigrant Hispanic achievement gap is actually 14% worse than the notorious white-black disparity.

But for American-born Hispanic children (not just second generation, as many might assume, but the second up through the seventh generation), the gap is 67% as large as the white-black variance.

Exactly as I predicted!

(It’s interesting that the gaps between whites and blacks and native-born and foreign Hispanics are widest among 8th graders and narrowest among 12th graders. Presumably this narrowing is partly caused by differing high school dropout rates, which remove more of the lowest-scoring minorities from the ranks of the test-takers.)

The good news: if we cut off all immigration from Latin America tomorrow, the total white-Hispanic achievement chasm would narrow over the next, say, 30 years, from more than 90% of the white-black difference down to 67%.

Steve's numbers above are consistent with Hispanic high school graduates across generations from first generation immigrants all the way through 4th generation descendants. We pay for the first generation and we keep paying for the later generations.

We should stop the influx of illegal aliens and deport the illegals that are already here. We should also change legal immgration qualifications to make college level education as the minimum required for prospective immgrants.

By Randall Parker at 2004 August 25 02:29 PM Immigration Economics | TrackBack

http://www.parapundit.com/archives/002312.html

 

[left alone]

If the ilegles are not paying taxes or working under the table whose fault it it. Theirs or their employers? If they get a sub-standard wage whose fault is it? Theirs or their employeers?
Do some of them take advantage of our system? Sure. Thats the stupid system we developed. Are their home grown dead beats doing the same thing? Sure
Good for one, good for all. You can't legislate honestly or morality. Dead beats are dead beats and I don't care where their born.
You really think that if they ALL left your lives would somehow be better? I hope you never find that out.
Need more money? Go back to school, get a better job or take a chance and start your own business. Just quit blaming your sorry plight on others.

 

[007]

If the ilegles are not paying taxes or working under the table whose fault it it. Theirs or their employers? If they get a sub-standard wage whose fault is it? Theirs or their employeers?
Do some of them take advantage of our system? Sure. Thats the stupid system we developed. Are their home grown dead beats doing the same thing? Sure
Good for one, good for all. You can't legislate honestly or morality. Dead beats are dead beats and I don't care where their born.
You really think that if they ALL left your lives would somehow be better? I hope you never find that out.
Need more money? Go back to school, get a better job or take a chance and start your own business. Just quit blaming your sorry plight on others.

Through all your diatribe you've puked out thus far, you've over looked ONE SIMPLE FACT, the illegals you're refering to, you sound like they somehow have a "right" to be here in the first place, and they DON'T! THEY ARE FUCKING CRIMINALS! They have entered this country ILLEGALY.

*I* don't owe them anything.

*YOU* don't owe them anything.

*AMERICA* doesn't owe them anything.

If times are rough in their own country, then that's their damn problem. THAT DOES NOT GIVE THEM THE RIGHT TO BRING THEIR PROBLEMS HERE!!! They are COSTING ME MONEY. They are a BLIGHT, a PROBLEM.

How should we solve it? Stopping the influx is surely the thing to do, RIGHT NOW! Another good idea might be to annex Mexico. I'm for that idea. Open the fucking border right up... BOTH WAYS. Make AMERICAN law, MEXICAN law. Make OUR President THEIR President.

In any case, any way you look at it, the way things are now, America is hurting bad because of all the wetbacks. Something has to be done.

 

[left alone]

Fist of all, your right in that we owe these people nothing. As a matter of fact I owe NO ONE anything. One one should try and get in my pocket because they feel disadvantaged.
Next, closing the border. Have you heard a single idea that would work? A fence isn't the answer. Too easy to go under it or around it.
Army or National Guard? Not unless your willing to shoot them. Trying to turn them back, day after day just isn't going to work. How do you propose to threaten them? Sending the to Mexico?
One idea that WILL work. Pick them up and deport them. Nothing says you have to send them to Mexico. Send them to Iraq. Within a few years they will take over the place.

 

[007]

Fist of all, your right in that we owe these people nothing. As a matter of fact I owe NO ONE anything. One one should try and get in my pocket because they feel disadvantaged.
Next, closing the border. Have you heard a single idea that would work? A fence isn't the answer. Too easy to go under it or around it.
Army or National Guard? Not unless your willing to shoot them. Trying to turn them back, day after day just isn't going to work. How do you propose to threaten them? Sending the to Mexico?
One idea that WILL work. Pick them up and deport them. Nothing says you have to send them to Mexico. Send them to Iraq. Within a few years they will take over the place.

Maybe a fence wouldn't stop ALL of them, but it surely WOULD stop MANY... MOST for that matter. Making it very difficult to get over/under it is something they're aware of, and have engineered it accordingly.

I like the idea of sending the ones caught to Iraq. Nice.

 

[Hobbit]

I'm willing to start shooting them, after a good month or so of warning. I'm also in favor af telling Vicente Fox that if he doesn't clean up his act, we'll clean it up for him. Either he makes Mexicans proud to be Mexicans, or we'll make them ALL American.

 

[left alone]

Listen you fucking liberal cherry... before you come in here and start calling our good, old, members your favorite bitch names, why don't YOU start by addressing posts number 2 and 3!

I got your cherry....hanging

 

[007]

I got your cherry....hanging

Oh great... another fag. :talk2:

 

[007]

Bottom line to this thread, we do NOT need illegal aliens.