We Look Stupid

[Madeline]

hortySir wrote:

The point is, it's not necessary.
Nevermind the fact that NOWHERE, besides their own made up rules, do they have the authority to search my person without probable cause.
There has to be a line.
Will they want to come search your house, your car?
Body cavity searches?

We bitched when airport security was private and not government. Now that it is government, we bitch s'more. Searching your car might conceivably be reasonable, if you use it to get to the airport. Searching your house would not be unless you live in an RV.

"Probable cause" is not the standard as TSA is security, not law enforcement. The standard should be "reasonably calculated to assure safety".

I dun care if they do body cavity searches. That's my whole point. If there is no other way to assure everyone's safety -- and doubtless, there always will be -- then let's get over this bullshit.

 

[rdean]

An unwarranted search is a violation of the fourth amendment.

Period.

Which amendment covers an unwarranted bomb?

Question mark.

 

[Samson]

WTF is with all the hand wringing over the safety measures taken to prevent terrorists from boarding airplanes? I dun get this AT ALL. Fearful of being leered at by security during a body scan?

Take the fucking bus.

Why is this nation so full of pussies lately? What is up with all this Victorian Era modesty, that we'd rather be blown to bits at 10,000 feet than seen nakkie?

The point is, it's not necessary.
Nevermind the fact that NOWHERE, besides their own made up rules, do they have the authority to search my person without probable cause.
There has to be a line.
Will they want to come search your house, your car?
Body cavity searches?

What about searching the body cavity of fetuses inside pregnant mothers?

How absurdly would you like to "draw the line."

 

[SFC Ollie]

Oh Christ on a stick. Someone put a Star on the calendar I'm sort of on the same side as rdean

 

[Samson]

An unwarranted search is a violation of the fourth amendment.

Period.

Which amendment covers an unwarranted bomb?

Question mark.

rdean, EVERY AMERICAN could stop whining, and you'd still make us all look stupid.

 

[Madeline]

LOL @ Ollie.

 

[hortysir]

If there is no other way to assure everyone's safety -- and doubtless, there always will be

Really?
We can replicate the big bang in a laboratory, clone sheep, watch football on our cell phones.
We can track how many viewers of America's Next Top (whatever).
We can make a farm or manage a cafe on Facebook.


But we can't figure out what kind of person is likely to try something?
I've had a personality assessment for a job as a server, for Pete's sake.
It's not difficult to figure out that the guy with no luggage, paid cash for a oneway ticket is probably up to something without having to reach up my wife's dress.

 

[Sherry]

hortySir wrote:

The point is, it's not necessary.
Nevermind the fact that NOWHERE, besides their own made up rules, do they have the authority to search my person without probable cause.
There has to be a line.
Will they want to come search your house, your car?
Body cavity searches?

We bitched when airport security was private and not government. Now that it is government, we bitch s'more. Searching your car might conceivably be reasonable, if you use it to get to the airport. Searching your house would not be unless you live in an RV.

"Probable cause" is not the standard as TSA is security, not law enforcement. The standard should be "reasonably calculated to assure safety".

I dun care if they do body cavity searches. That's my whole point. If there is no other way to assure everyone's safety -- and doubtless, there always will be -- then let's get over this bullshit.

I really hope that we don't come to a point that the majority are willing to roll over and take it up the ass from our government...all in the name of security.

 

[hortysir]

What about searching the body cavity of fetuses inside pregnant mothers?

How absurdly would you like to "draw the line."

I know it's sounds absurd, Sam.
10 years ago it was absurd to think you couldn't carry nail clippers or a lighter on a flight for your smoke when you landed.
It was absurd to think that, even if you're wearing flip-flops, you'd have to take your shoes off for inspection prior to boarding.

How absurd is it, really, to think that eventually some yahoo is going to try and sneak in a butt plug made of C-4 and we'd all be subjected to cavity searches because of it.

 

[Samson]

hortySir wrote:

The point is, it's not necessary.
Nevermind the fact that NOWHERE, besides their own made up rules, do they have the authority to search my person without probable cause.
There has to be a line.
Will they want to come search your house, your car?
Body cavity searches?

We bitched when airport security was private and not government. Now that it is government, we bitch s'more. Searching your car might conceivably be reasonable, if you use it to get to the airport. Searching your house would not be unless you live in an RV.

"Probable cause" is not the standard as TSA is security, not law enforcement. The standard should be "reasonably calculated to assure safety".

I dun care if they do body cavity searches. That's my whole point. If there is no other way to assure everyone's safety -- and doubtless, there always will be -- then let's get over this bullshit.

I really hope that we don't come to a point that the majority are willing to roll over and take it up the ass from our government...all in the name of security.

Well, there will be Body Cavity Search Airline: "We've never been terrorized...in the air"

and there will be

No-Body Cavity Search Airline: "We've never been terrorized.....on the ground."

 

[Ragnar]

Hillary: Hey, I don’t want TSA touching my junk either; Update: TSA backing off? Hot Air

Video at link along with the following update...

Update: That was fast. This morning, TSA chief John Pistole said he sympathized with passengers’ discomfort but that the procedures won’t be changing. A few hours and presumably a few tense phone calls from his superiors later, we get this:

Heeding a sudden furor, John Pistole, administrator of the Transportation Security Administration, said in a Sunday afternoon statement to POLITICO that airport screening procedures “will be adapted as conditions warrant,” in an effort to make them “as minimally invasive as possible, while still providing the security that the American people want and deserve.”…

“We welcome feedback and comments on the screening procedures from the traveling public, and we will work to make them as minimally invasive as possible, while still providing the security that the American people want and deserve. We are constantly evaluating and adapting our security measures, and as we have said from the beginning, we are seeking to strike the right balance between privacy and security.

“In all such security programs, especially those that are applied nationwide, there is a continual process of refinement and adjustment to ensure that best practices are applied and that feedback and comment from the traveling public is taken into account. This has always been viewed as an evolving program that will be adapted as conditions warrant, and we greatly appreciate the cooperation and understanding of the American people.

I wonder who ordered him to have a change of heart. Napolitano or Obama?

I tend to agree with the Hot Air take, in that the sides in the argument would be flip-flopped if this were done under Bush. If anything that shows this is more of a political move than a security move.

IMHO this is a case where the klieg lights lit up brightly on Washington DC and as per usual, the only answer was "quick, look busy". Rights be damned, thought be damned just pass a new law and or procedure and or "whatever" and see if it sticks. I want to fly safe and for my fellow American's to be safe but the mindless zombies at the TSA are useless automatons going through the motions of pretend safety and the useless abuse that follows is a travesty. One way or another the American people will bring this sham to an end. My guess is sooner rather than later.

 

[SFC Ollie]

hortySir wrote:

The point is, it's not necessary.
Nevermind the fact that NOWHERE, besides their own made up rules, do they have the authority to search my person without probable cause.
There has to be a line.
Will they want to come search your house, your car?
Body cavity searches?

We bitched when airport security was private and not government. Now that it is government, we bitch s'more. Searching your car might conceivably be reasonable, if you use it to get to the airport. Searching your house would not be unless you live in an RV.

"Probable cause" is not the standard as TSA is security, not law enforcement. The standard should be "reasonably calculated to assure safety".

I dun care if they do body cavity searches. That's my whole point. If there is no other way to assure everyone's safety -- and doubtless, there always will be -- then let's get over this bullshit.

I really hope that we don't come to a point that the majority are willing to roll over and take it up the ass from our government...all in the name of security.

I would hope that it never comes to a point where we find ourselves so bad off that we have to. But you know the type of profiling that the Israelis do won't fly with a certain major group here in the States. Unless of course we make it sound like it's their Idea.

 

[Ragnar]

TSA chief: Screening may evolve - Mike Allen - POLITICO.com

The TSA is already backing down. Sooner the farce ends the better.

Heeding a sudden furor, John Pistole, administrator of the Transportation Security Administration, said in a Sunday afternoon statement to POLITICO that airport screening procedures “will be adapted as conditions warrant,” in an effort to make them “as minimally invasive as possible, while still providing the security that the American people want and deserve.”

TSA's new flexibility comes as the government gears up for a flood of travel over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend. Administration officials say any changes are more likely to be in the implementation of the security procedures than in the security measures themselves.

Not for nothing but I'm just as willing to support the TSA once they get serious, drop the PC crap and want to help keep American's safe again.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Sounds political.

 

[hortysir]

TSA chief: Screening may evolve - Mike Allen - POLITICO.com

The TSA is already backing down. Sooner the farce ends the better.

Heeding a sudden furor, John Pistole, administrator of the Transportation Security Administration, said in a Sunday afternoon statement to POLITICO that airport screening procedures “will be adapted as conditions warrant,” in an effort to make them “as minimally invasive as possible, while still providing the security that the American people want and deserve.”

TSA's new flexibility comes as the government gears up for a flood of travel over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend. Administration officials say any changes are more likely to be in the implementation of the security procedures than in the security measures themselves.

Not for nothing but I'm just as willing to support the TSA once they get serious, drop the PC crap and want to help keep American's safe again.

Sounds like a reasonable compromise.
We'll see, I guess

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you wish to discuss more effective safety measures, Rangal, I'm all ears. If instead, you wanna carry on about TSA seeing an xray of your junk, sorry, not sympathetic.

I have discussed more effective methods. Random searches are infinitely more effective than a standard procedure that terrorists can learn, adapt to, and overcome. If the government succeeds in making you feel safer by subjecting you to sexual assault instead of actually doing their job I am not the one with a problem,

"sexual assult?"



Please, spare the drama.

BOTH profiling AND random body searches would offer the best defense against terrorist activity.

There is no reason to discount either because of a few snivilling cry-babies.

The law in California clearly criminalizes the type of contact that the TSA is using in its new searches, and at least 2 DAs have stated publicly that they are willing to file criminal charges if any passengers want to push it. You might not like the facts, but they are still there.

Besides, if I walked up to you on the street and tried that you would either react by trying to beat the crap out of me, or call the police and file charges. Why are you willing to allow strange men to grope you if they wear a blue shirt and work at an airport?

And I support profiling over treating innocent people like criminals. Smart screening makes a lot more sense, is more cost effective, and more effective. I don't expect the government to listen though.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Fact is according to all the polls we've heard about only 20% are against the so called nude scanners. I don't like going through security but i got spoiled as a courier years ago. I can see the need for greater security right now. If we could start the Israeli systems I would agree with those also. Or any combination thereof. Almost anything that works.

But I am not going to cry about my rights not to be searched when I know damned well there is someone out there who would love to get a weapon or bomb on board any plane they can.

Wrong.

The polls are deceptive, and only support the use of scanners, not the indiscriminate use of them. I am willing to bet the same poll today would come up with approval ratings much lower because everyone understands just how stupid the government intends to be in implementing an ineffective technology.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"sexual assult?"



Please, spare the drama.

BOTH profiling AND random body searches would offer the best defense against terrorist activity.

There is no reason to discount either because of a few snivilling cry-babies.

Thats just it. They are not profiling.

And TSA has the same track record as the Israelis.

That is a flat out lie.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I have discussed more effective methods. Random searches are infinitely more effective than a standard procedure that terrorists can learn, adapt to, and overcome. If the government succeeds in making you feel safer by subjecting you to sexual assault instead of actually doing their job I am not the one with a problem,

"sexual assult?"



Please, spare the drama.

BOTH profiling AND random body searches would offer the best defense against terrorist activity.

There is no reason to discount either because of a few snivilling cry-babies.

THIS is exactly what I am talking about. This hyperbole about "sexual assault" because during a search, you might be touched or viewed in the nude. Jesus H. Christ, the government isn't dragging you into an alley to do this, Quantum Windbag. It is trying its best -- and possibly not doing the best job on Planet Earth but then regulating and training all of TSA ain't easy either -- to protect you from harm.

I just cannot get over how foolish all this is, and how self-indulgent and short-sighted. What will the bitch-festival be like if a plane does get hijacked or blown to bits in US airspace again?

Not you, nor anyone else, riding on a commercial flight, has any right to demand these procedures be waived because they are an affront to your dignity -- your dignity is not more valuable than the safety of everyone else.

If someone groped you on the street what would you call it? What would you call it at work? Why should TSA be exempt from laws everyone else, including the jailers who search prisoners, have to worry about?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

hortySir wrote:

The point is, it's not necessary.
Nevermind the fact that NOWHERE, besides their own made up rules, do they have the authority to search my person without probable cause.
There has to be a line.
Will they want to come search your house, your car?
Body cavity searches?

We bitched when airport security was private and not government. Now that it is government, we bitch s'more. Searching your car might conceivably be reasonable, if you use it to get to the airport. Searching your house would not be unless you live in an RV.

"Probable cause" is not the standard as TSA is security, not law enforcement. The standard should be "reasonably calculated to assure safety".

I dun care if they do body cavity searches. That's my whole point. If there is no other way to assure everyone's safety -- and doubtless, there always will be -- then let's get over this bullshit.

"We" did not.