We Don't Need No Giant Whirlybird Fans

Weatherman2020

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Mar 3, 2013
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Between 2009 and 2017, the price of solar panels per watt declined by 75 percent while the price of wind turbines per watt declined by 50 percent.

And yet — during the same period — the price of electricity in places that deployed significant quantities of renewables increased dramatically. […]

What gives? If solar panels and wind turbines became so much cheaper, why did the price of electricity rise instead of decline?



I am so ahead of my time.
 
How have electricity prices changed in the past 10 years?
Utility residential electricity prices have risen steadily in the last decade. According to the Energy Information Administration, residential electricity rates have increased nationally by around 24% in the last 10 years (an increase of a little more than 0.2¢/year).

04.30_EIA-Graphs-Update-01_Blog-2.png


This graph, from the Energy Information Administration (EIA), shows the increase in average residential electricity prices as a percentage between February 2008 and present. During this period, US residential electricity prices rose by about 24%

Are Electricity Prices Going Up or Down in 2018? | EnergySage

Now there is a pretty definite slope upward from 2008 to 2014. Now 2014 is just about where wind and solar started being used in Mega-watt and Giga-watt installations. From 2014 to present, the curve is pretty flat. Seems that on this matter, as one most, you are full of shit.
 
How have electricity prices changed in the past 10 years?
Utility residential electricity prices have risen steadily in the last decade. According to the Energy Information Administration, residential electricity rates have increased nationally by around 24% in the last 10 years (an increase of a little more than 0.2¢/year).

04.30_EIA-Graphs-Update-01_Blog-2.png


This graph, from the Energy Information Administration (EIA), shows the increase in average residential electricity prices as a percentage between February 2008 and present. During this period, US residential electricity prices rose by about 24%

Are Electricity Prices Going Up or Down in 2018? | EnergySage

Now there is a pretty definite slope upward from 2008 to 2014. Now 2014 is just about where wind and solar started being used in Mega-watt and Giga-watt installations. From 2014 to present, the curve is pretty flat. Seems that on this matter, as one most, you are full of shit.
Have a nice day! :bye1:
image.png


Why Low Energy Prices Rarely Reach Electric Consumers - Microgrid Media
 
That graph shows that from 2000 to 2009, there was a rise in electrical rates, and, from 2009 to 2016, the rise continued, except at a less steep rate. So, as renewables were incorporated into the grid, the increase rose less sharply. Even in spite of what the article stated for the reasons for the lack of a leveling off of costs.

Why Low Energy Prices Rarely Reach Electric Consumers - Microgrid Media

After peaking in 2008, the collapse of natural gas prices theoretically saved Americans nearly $250 billion over 3 years. Had the net savings been a stimulus package, the first year alone would have been the 2nd biggest in history. Seven years of low natural gas prices have resulted in plummeting wholesale power prices (what the utility pays), but few Americans feel like they’ve seen any benefit, especially on their electric bills.

electricity-generation-savings.jpg


Although natural gas prices, which are the biggest input into the electric system, have declined by 39% over the last decade, electricity prices have risen by 40%. As the industry saved around $30 billion a year, consumer rates still rose faster than inflation.

.................................................................................................................................................................................................................


Former CEO and current thought leader David Crane sees energy following a similar path of computers. In the 70s and 80s there were just a few massive, centralized supercomputers. Computers were a bulky, centralized systems. Then people found a way to string distributed PCs together, and the supercomputers weren’t necessary anymore. The computing power of distributed computers in the cloud surpassed all expectations.

Microgrids, ultimately, will not come from top down but the bottom up, owners of distributed energy resources like solar PV and batteries will realize they have spare capacity, says Crane in an interview with Columbia University’s Center For Global Energy Policy. “Whenever there’s spare capacity going forward, society is going to find a way to use that spare capacity.”

Though Crane admits getting in trouble at NRG for being ahead of the curve, the sharing economy for energy could be closer than we think.



So we have another dumb ass denier stating something about an article that is just the opposite of what the article says. LOL
 
That graph shows that from 2000 to 2009, there was a rise in electrical rates, and, from 2009 to 2016, the rise continued, except at a less steep rate. So, as renewables were incorporated into the grid, the increase rose less sharply. Even in spite of what the article stated for the reasons for the lack of a leveling off of costs.

Why Low Energy Prices Rarely Reach Electric Consumers - Microgrid Media

After peaking in 2008, the collapse of natural gas prices theoretically saved Americans nearly $250 billion over 3 years. Had the net savings been a stimulus package, the first year alone would have been the 2nd biggest in history. Seven years of low natural gas prices have resulted in plummeting wholesale power prices (what the utility pays), but few Americans feel like they’ve seen any benefit, especially on their electric bills.

electricity-generation-savings.jpg


Although natural gas prices, which are the biggest input into the electric system, have declined by 39% over the last decade, electricity prices have risen by 40%. As the industry saved around $30 billion a year, consumer rates still rose faster than inflation.

.................................................................................................................................................................................................................


Former CEO and current thought leader David Crane sees energy following a similar path of computers. In the 70s and 80s there were just a few massive, centralized supercomputers. Computers were a bulky, centralized systems. Then people found a way to string distributed PCs together, and the supercomputers weren’t necessary anymore. The computing power of distributed computers in the cloud surpassed all expectations.

Microgrids, ultimately, will not come from top down but the bottom up, owners of distributed energy resources like solar PV and batteries will realize they have spare capacity, says Crane in an interview with Columbia University’s Center For Global Energy Policy. “Whenever there’s spare capacity going forward, society is going to find a way to use that spare capacity.”

Though Crane admits getting in trouble at NRG for being ahead of the curve, the sharing economy for energy could be closer than we think.



So we have another dumb ass denier stating something about an article that is just the opposite of what the article says. LOL

WILL THE FIRST USMB MEMBER STEP FORWARD TO STATE THEIR ENERGY COSTS HAVE GONE DOWN.

State how much.

End of thread.
 
That graph shows that from 2000 to 2009, there was a rise in electrical rates, and, from 2009 to 2016, the rise continued, except at a less steep rate. So, as renewables were incorporated into the grid, the increase rose less sharply. Even in spite of what the article stated for the reasons for the lack of a leveling off of costs.

Why Low Energy Prices Rarely Reach Electric Consumers - Microgrid Media

After peaking in 2008, the collapse of natural gas prices theoretically saved Americans nearly $250 billion over 3 years. Had the net savings been a stimulus package, the first year alone would have been the 2nd biggest in history. Seven years of low natural gas prices have resulted in plummeting wholesale power prices (what the utility pays), but few Americans feel like they’ve seen any benefit, especially on their electric bills.

electricity-generation-savings.jpg


Although natural gas prices, which are the biggest input into the electric system, have declined by 39% over the last decade, electricity prices have risen by 40%. As the industry saved around $30 billion a year, consumer rates still rose faster than inflation.

.................................................................................................................................................................................................................


Former CEO and current thought leader David Crane sees energy following a similar path of computers. In the 70s and 80s there were just a few massive, centralized supercomputers. Computers were a bulky, centralized systems. Then people found a way to string distributed PCs together, and the supercomputers weren’t necessary anymore. The computing power of distributed computers in the cloud surpassed all expectations.

Microgrids, ultimately, will not come from top down but the bottom up, owners of distributed energy resources like solar PV and batteries will realize they have spare capacity, says Crane in an interview with Columbia University’s Center For Global Energy Policy. “Whenever there’s spare capacity going forward, society is going to find a way to use that spare capacity.”

Though Crane admits getting in trouble at NRG for being ahead of the curve, the sharing economy for energy could be closer than we think.



So we have another dumb ass denier stating something about an article that is just the opposite of what the article says. LOL

WILL THE FIRST USMB MEMBER STEP FORWARD TO STATE THEIR ENERGY COSTS HAVE GONE DOWN.

State how much.

End of thread.

Well now, dumb fuck, you have gone from stating that renewables increased the rate of rise of energy costs, to trying to say that renewables have failed because they have not decreased the costs. Your own article, as I have shown, stated that your whole premise was full of shit. Of course you want to end the thread now that you have been shown to be so grossly wrong.

I do believe that we have a few on the USMB that have installed solar, and seen significant savings on their electrical bills.
 
That graph shows that from 2000 to 2009, there was a rise in electrical rates, and, from 2009 to 2016, the rise continued, except at a less steep rate. So, as renewables were incorporated into the grid, the increase rose less sharply. Even in spite of what the article stated for the reasons for the lack of a leveling off of costs.

Why Low Energy Prices Rarely Reach Electric Consumers - Microgrid Media

After peaking in 2008, the collapse of natural gas prices theoretically saved Americans nearly $250 billion over 3 years. Had the net savings been a stimulus package, the first year alone would have been the 2nd biggest in history. Seven years of low natural gas prices have resulted in plummeting wholesale power prices (what the utility pays), but few Americans feel like they’ve seen any benefit, especially on their electric bills.

electricity-generation-savings.jpg


Although natural gas prices, which are the biggest input into the electric system, have declined by 39% over the last decade, electricity prices have risen by 40%. As the industry saved around $30 billion a year, consumer rates still rose faster than inflation.

.................................................................................................................................................................................................................


Former CEO and current thought leader David Crane sees energy following a similar path of computers. In the 70s and 80s there were just a few massive, centralized supercomputers. Computers were a bulky, centralized systems. Then people found a way to string distributed PCs together, and the supercomputers weren’t necessary anymore. The computing power of distributed computers in the cloud surpassed all expectations.

Microgrids, ultimately, will not come from top down but the bottom up, owners of distributed energy resources like solar PV and batteries will realize they have spare capacity, says Crane in an interview with Columbia University’s Center For Global Energy Policy. “Whenever there’s spare capacity going forward, society is going to find a way to use that spare capacity.”

Though Crane admits getting in trouble at NRG for being ahead of the curve, the sharing economy for energy could be closer than we think.



So we have another dumb ass denier stating something about an article that is just the opposite of what the article says. LOL

WILL THE FIRST USMB MEMBER STEP FORWARD TO STATE THEIR ENERGY COSTS HAVE GONE DOWN.

State how much.

End of thread.

Well now, dumb fuck, you have gone from stating that renewables increased the rate of rise of energy costs, to trying to say that renewables have failed because they have not decreased the costs. Your own article, as I have shown, stated that your whole premise was full of shit. Of course you want to end the thread now that you have been shown to be so grossly wrong.

I do believe that we have a few on the USMB that have installed solar, and seen significant savings on their electrical bills.

You're bumbling again.

Cost of energy as a whole is skyrocketing.
 
The yearly rate of increase has started to decline after we started installing renewables in a big way. And it is now economical for those with good southern exposure to install solar, payback time about five years. And that pressure on the utilities will eventually make them either lower their costs, or see people disconnecting from the grid. In the meantime, continue your 'oh woe is me' line, it is amusing.
 
The yearly rate of increase has started to decline after we started installing renewables in a big way. And it is now economical for those with good southern exposure to install solar, payback time about five years. And that pressure on the utilities will eventually make them either lower their costs, or see people disconnecting from the grid. In the meantime, continue your 'oh woe is me' line, it is amusing.
Yearly rate increase of energy continues to be well beyond inflation, and going solar is going to be another kick in the ass like flaming sparky cars with the government screwing you over for going green.

SDG&E Wants Solar Customers to Pay Up - Voice of San Diego
 
Simple solution, especially in San Diego with the amount of sunshine they have. Install enough solar to take care of all your energy needs, and buy two Powerwalls. Tell the power company to get their Goddamned lines off your property. A few tens of thousands of people doing that, and that utility will have to work with the homeowners rather than against them. But they will never get the customers that have gone off the grid back. Again, you ignore the obvious.
 
Simple solution, especially in San Diego with the amount of sunshine they have. Install enough solar to take care of all your energy needs, and buy two Powerwalls. Tell the power company to get their Goddamned lines off your property. A few tens of thousands of people doing that, and that utility will have to work with the homeowners rather than against them. But they will never get the customers that have gone off the grid back. Again, you ignore the obvious.
Except government is involved. Leftist government.

So every summer rolling blackouts on nice sunny days.
 
Silly ass, how are you going to have a rolling blackout if you are off the grid and providing your own electricity? So how is a government, leftist or rightist, going to affect you if you independently supply your own electricity. Basically, you are just trying to justify your rightwingnut idiocy concerning renewable power. Doesn't matter, it is coming, and twerps like you are just pissing into the wind trying to stop it.
 
Silly ass, how are you going to have a rolling blackout if you are off the grid and providing your own electricity? So how is a government, leftist or rightist, going to affect you if you independently supply your own electricity. Basically, you are just trying to justify your rightwingnut idiocy concerning renewable power. Doesn't matter, it is coming, and twerps like you are just pissing into the wind trying to stop it.
OH goody, so during June gloom where the sun is not seen for 2 months we can live like my great grandma!
 
No sun in San Diego in June?

58 % sunshine
9 days clear skies
The sun's rays reach the ground in San Diego during 58 percent of daylight hours on average in June, for a total of 248 hours in the month. Typically on 9 days this month the sky is mainly clear, with at most 30 percent cloud cover.

Sunlight in June at San Diego averages 14 hours and 16 minutes a day. The longest days of the year, from around June 19th to 22nd, last 14 hours and 19 minutes from sunrise to sunset.

San Diego CA Weather in June
 
The OP is following the denier script. If you cannot rebut the truth, tell a lie. Wind and solar are now dominate in new electrical generation.

World Added Far More New Solar Than Fossil Fuel Power in 2017 | UNFCCC

UN Climate Change News, 6 April 2018 - Solar energy dominated global investment in new power generation at unprecedented levels in 2017, according to a new report that underlines that clean energy makes sense not only for the climate but for the global economy as well.

Some 98 gigawatts of new solar capacity were installed worldwide in 2017, far more than the net additions of any other technology, including fossil fuels and nuclear.

The rapid growth in solar power is significant as global markets recognize the importance of meeting the goals of the Paris Agreement.

“The extraordinary surge in solar investment shows how the global energy map is changing and, more importantly, what the economic benefits are of such a shift,” said UN Environment head Erik Solheim. “Investments in renewables bring more people into the economy, they deliver more jobs, better quality jobs and better paid jobs. Clean energy also means less pollution, which means healthier, happier development.”

Wind and Solar Growth Outpace Gas

More than half of the roughly 24,000 megawatts of electricity generation capacity added to the U.S. grid in 2016 came from renewable resources, according to new findings from the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

The agency estimates that 60 percent of all utility-scale generation capacity additions for the year were from wind and solar resources, while roughly 3 percent came from hydropower, biomass, landfill gas and other sources.

Among fossil fuels, natural gas accounted for the largest share of new electricity capacity in 2016, with an estimated 7,700 MW of new gas-fired power coming online (32 percent of all new capacity), while nuclear capacity grew by 1,347 MW (5.6 percent), officials confirmed.

Looks like the people that count like wind mills and solar.
 
That graph shows that from 2000 to 2009, there was a rise in electrical rates, and, from 2009 to 2016, the rise continued, except at a less steep rate. So, as renewables were incorporated into the grid, the increase rose less sharply. Even in spite of what the article stated for the reasons for the lack of a leveling off of costs.

Why Low Energy Prices Rarely Reach Electric Consumers - Microgrid Media

After peaking in 2008, the collapse of natural gas prices theoretically saved Americans nearly $250 billion over 3 years. Had the net savings been a stimulus package, the first year alone would have been the 2nd biggest in history. Seven years of low natural gas prices have resulted in plummeting wholesale power prices (what the utility pays), but few Americans feel like they’ve seen any benefit, especially on their electric bills.

electricity-generation-savings.jpg


Although natural gas prices, which are the biggest input into the electric system, have declined by 39% over the last decade, electricity prices have risen by 40%. As the industry saved around $30 billion a year, consumer rates still rose faster than inflation.

.................................................................................................................................................................................................................


Former CEO and current thought leader David Crane sees energy following a similar path of computers. In the 70s and 80s there were just a few massive, centralized supercomputers. Computers were a bulky, centralized systems. Then people found a way to string distributed PCs together, and the supercomputers weren’t necessary anymore. The computing power of distributed computers in the cloud surpassed all expectations.

Microgrids, ultimately, will not come from top down but the bottom up, owners of distributed energy resources like solar PV and batteries will realize they have spare capacity, says Crane in an interview with Columbia University’s Center For Global Energy Policy. “Whenever there’s spare capacity going forward, society is going to find a way to use that spare capacity.”

Though Crane admits getting in trouble at NRG for being ahead of the curve, the sharing economy for energy could be closer than we think.



So we have another dumb ass denier stating something about an article that is just the opposite of what the article says. LOL

WILL THE FIRST USMB MEMBER STEP FORWARD TO STATE THEIR ENERGY COSTS HAVE GONE DOWN.

State how much.

End of thread.

Well now, dumb fuck, you have gone from stating that renewables increased the rate of rise of energy costs, to trying to say that renewables have failed because they have not decreased the costs. Your own article, as I have shown, stated that your whole premise was full of shit. Of course you want to end the thread now that you have been shown to be so grossly wrong.

I do believe that we have a few on the USMB that have installed solar, and seen significant savings on their electrical bills.


Ask the germans and australians what renewables do to the price of electricity...they are the only ones who have really attempted to deploy renewables as a viable energy source...luckily we have barely deployed enough to do much more than ruin the landscape and kill our raptors, bats, and migratory birds at a truely alarming rate.
 
In my area corporate greed is the reason for higher rates. The reason electric rates are so high in the Tampa Bay area is because of the monopoly of Duke Energy. Duke forced customers to pay for a botched job of repairing the Chrystal River reactor that is now useless. Customers were charged in advance for a new reactor that was never built, but Duke kept most of the money. Ordinarily stockholders should have born most of the risk, but they made out while the customers lost.

http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-duke-energy-gives-its-customers-a-break/2335559

...ratepayers have already spent $800 million on a nuclear plant that will never be built. Blame both Duke and a lapdog Florida Legislature for that waste of money. More than a decade ago, enabling legislators passed the nuclear cost-recovery act that allowed Duke and other power companies to collect money in advance for nuclear plants becoming operational or, in this case, for one that was never built. The fallout from this folly made Duke radioactive to many of its customers, a hard lesson it has now learned.
 
Ask the germans and australians what renewables do to the price of electricity...they are the only ones who have really attempted to deploy renewables as a viable energy source...luckily we have barely deployed enough to do much more than ruin the landscape and kill our raptors, bats, and migratory birds at a truely alarming rate.

Which birds were blissfully happy with air pollution, coal mining, drilling for oil and the
AGW distortions to their migratory patterns threatening their very existence.

Re German renewable costs, see What German households pay for power

And, as I've said before, no such thing as a free lunch. However, the cost of switching to alternative energy is absolutely fucking pennies to the cost of dealing with AGW.
 

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