Johnson We could all be more "liberal" on Immigration -- If Govt worked correctly.

[flacaltenn]

Lots of confusion about Libertarians being totally "open border" people,. In the IDEAL -- one of us will leap to statements that rightfully concern people. But 2 things stand out..

1) While the Lib Party supports generous immigration policies --- at the SAME time -- we are adamantly AGAINST providing govt incentives that ENCOURAGE mass migration. Like no guarantees of subsidized Health Care, Welfare, Fast track citizenship for minors, Reduced College fees, etc for non-citizens. That's an important point often left out. Since the INCENTIVES to cross the border have astronomically increased since the last "amnesty".

2) Similar to that important missed point is the fact that we respect ALL of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights -- not the parts we like. So in our platform -- when immigration is discussed -- we INCLUDE the appropriate Constitutional duties of the Fed Govt..

Platform

3.4 Free Trade and Migration

We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders. However, we support control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a credible threat to security, health or property.

At no time during his 8 years as a border state governor -- did Gary Johnson go out of his way to make illegal immigrants "comfortable and secure" with the funds of his state. No sanctuary doctrines. No attempts to "open the border".

The majority of tactical libertarian thought on amnesty/deportation is not that far from a moderate from either DEM/REP sides.

Immigration

For those workers already in the United States illegally, we can avoid "amnesty" and still offer a pathway out of the underground economy. Newly legalized workers can be assessed fines and back taxes and serve probation befitting the misdemeanor they've committed. They can be required to take their place at the back of the line should they eventually apply for permanent residency.

In any party -- you will have the purists that only approve of the "end goal ideals".. (especially in the Bernie camp). So you will hear a lot of ideals coming from Libertarians. But the party is prepared to govern as a moderate instrument of change without dogmatically trying to instantly make-over everything in the "ideal". These purists will probably show up angry about this thread.

Do not let "ideals" scare you...

More BETTER Lib Party info as the shit approaches the fan in November.

 

[flacaltenn]

The "southern border crisis" is entirely govt made. There is a law that prevents undocumented aliens from working. There is even a system that taxpayers PAID FOR -- that let's employers check immigration SSec status. (E-Verify)

All undocumented laborers COULD BE unemployed tomorrow. Without a freakin' wall or a mass deportation.

So why is there a problem? Yup --- it's collusion between the parties. And pandering to constituencies.

Start DOCUMENTING the workers you want and allow to work -- and STOP the employment of those that are not --- and we could ALL be more liberal about immigration issues tomorrow.

 

[william the wie]

We also need to get bumper stickers and street signs out.

 

[flacaltenn]

Still getting blowback about being Open Borders. Open Borders is what we have NOW.
The plan is to enforce the Constitution and establish a PROCESS for temporary workers and other classes of immigrants. And be generous with the documentation as long as the "magnets" of free stuff is cut off.

If you have a LEGAL process -- you can enforce the EXISTING LAW to deny work to UNdocumented aliens.


From the campaign site..

Sign to Support a Realistic Approach to Immigration



Having served as Governor of a border state, Gary Johnson knows the complex issues associated with immigration reform first hand. Solving immigration problems is not as easy as building a wall or simply offering amnesty.

We should appreciate and respect the diversity of immigrants that come to the United States to be productive members of society. But we also need to recognize that everyone who comes here is not so well-intentioned.

Gary Johnson and Bill Weld don’t want to build an expensive and useless wall. The only thing a big wall will do is increase the size of the ladders, the depth of the tunnels, and the width of the divisions between us.

Candidates who say they want to militarize the border, build fences, and impose punitive measures on good people, ground their position in popular rhetoric, not practical solutions.

Governors Johnson and Weld believe that, instead of appealing to emotions and demonizing immigrants, we should focus on creating a more efficient system of providing work visas, conducting background checks, and incentivizing non-citizens to pay their taxes, obtain proof of employment, and otherwise assimilate with our diverse society.

Making it simpler and more efficient to enter the United States legally will provide greater security than a wall by allowing law enforcement to focus on those who threaten our country, not those who want to be a part of it.

Practical Reform. No Walls. Incentivize Assimilation.

 

[pismoe]

I want NO immigration except for very limited immigration of only the best people for specific reasons minus family except for one wife and kids . No one has a RIGHT to immigrate to the USA Flacaltenn. --------------- just saying !!

 

[pismoe]

I went to a Dennys Libertarian mixer 20 years ago . It was a coffee meeting . All the attendees that came were only interested in the legalization of dope . As the mixr came to an end everyone paid their dollar but no one had money to tip the waitress .

 

[flacaltenn]

I went to a Dennys Libertarian mixer 20 years ago . It was a coffee meeting . All the attendees that came were only interested in the legalization of dope . As the mixr came to an end everyone paid their dollar but no one had money to tip the waitress .

Yeah.. Must be why the party is now led by 2 successful 8 year Governors. Must be the poverty and the dope..
All you really need to know is that the LParty has been 25 years AHEAD of "your guys" since we started. And all of the many things we've be creamed for are now accepted American thought and policy. 18 states will have some form of marijuana decriminalization on the ballot this year. Told you repeatedly that you couldn't farm Democracy to the MEast. And YOU created smoking ruins and deaths and terrorist hot beds. When you gonna stop being so damn wrong?

YOUR guys have fucked up most everything they've touched.

BTW --- THIS thread is about immigration. And good for you on your views. I don't want to round up granny/grandpa with the American offspring. They don't need to be citizens ever, but they have rejuvenated sloppy ugly portions of cities from coast to coast.

And YOUR GUYS again, could stop immigration tomorrow on the Southern border by enforcing the EXISTING laws on not hiring undocumented workers. Tell me WHY you believe that simple fix has never happened.

And then you should probably go and support YOUR candidate -- if you just don't like this saner alternative.

 

[pismoe]

I think that the bushes and dems , mrobama want to water down Americans . Doesn't really matter to me , I am an older male Trump supporter thats not really looking for much except to Exclude more immigrant and to make America great again in the way that I think America should be Great Flaceltenn .

 

[pismoe]

I told you my experience with libertarians and I personally think that libertaians that don't know what 'allepo' is are boneheads . Didn't Gary Johnson also say that he was happy that no one was hurt in the Minnesota muslim stabbings huh , Flaceltenn ??

 

[pismoe]

and I DO support the Trump Flaceltenn !! All other candidates seem to be boneheads and un' American . Gary Johnson who is lax on borders and pro immigration seems to be Brain damaged , in my opinion Flaceltenn !!

 

[flacaltenn]

I told you my experience with libertarians and I personally think that libertaians that don't know what 'allepo' is are boneheads . Didn't Gary Johnson also say that he was happy that no one was hurt in the Minnesota muslim stabbings huh , Flaceltenn ??

Well you enjoy the Donald's "deals" and his desire to put America deeper into debt, and his adoption of Bernie Sanders style new Entitlements for family leave/child care. And bombing the crap out of 4 Arab countries and increasing partisan polarization and dysfunction in Washington, and MORE attacks on Civil Liberties with more Patriotic Act types of deals.

Have fun with all that -- I don't care for EITHER "name brand" choice. It's time to put in a mediation team and shut down the stupid partisan bickering for 4 or 8 years. The LARGER part of America has had enough with BOTH parties.

 

[pismoe]

I told you my experience with libertarians and I personally think that libertaians that don't know what 'allepo' is are boneheads . Didn't Gary Johnson also say that he was happy that no one was hurt in the Minnesota muslim stabbings huh , Flaceltenn ??

Well you enjoy the Donald's "deals" and his desire to put America deeper into debt, and his adoption of Bernie Sanders style new Entitlements for family leave/child care. And bombing the crap out of 4 Arab countries and increasing partisan polarization and dysfunction in Washington, and MORE attacks on Civil Liberties with more Patriotic Act types of deals.

Have fun with all that -- I don't care for EITHER "name brand" choice. It's time to put in a mediation team and shut down the stupid partisan bickering for 4 or 8 years. The LARGER part of America has had enough with BOTH parties.

----------------------------------------- we will see about that , looks like the Trump is doing pretty good Flacetenn !!

 

[pismoe]

mediation team , what the heck is that foolishness ??

 

[pismoe]

is mediation team sorta like the captured 'mkkain' that was always reaching across the aisles .

 

[flacaltenn]

mediation team , what the heck is that foolishness ??

It's what you do when the 2 parties are paying more attention to wrecking each other and gaining power than they are in doing public service and serving people. The name-calling, scandals, childish campaign pranks and shit are gonna keep getting worse. No matter WHICH egomaniac power whore that YOU want to choose.

Imagine actually DECREASING the deficit, trimming back executive powers that the last 4 presidents have stolen, forcing Congress to focus on their BASIC CONSTITUTIONAL duties. Getting the NSA out of the biz of spying on Americans and turn them on suspected terrorists.

NONE of that gonna happen with Trump. A mediation team gets Congress to focus on problem solving and not re-election strategies. Ends the partisan packing of the appointed heads of the agencies like DOJ, EPA, IRS ect .

Right now -- all those agencies are headed by hacks who are there to cover-up and defend the Admin. We would choose folks on qualifications only. Because we're not running to build a dynasty or a duopoly. We running to fix stuff and serve humbly. No arrogance. No lust for power.. You wouldn't understand stuff like that. Because it hasn't happened in your lifetime. But THAT is how leaders should be chosen..

 

[pismoe]

thanks Flaccatenn , similar to what I thought butthats not how its supposed to work in the USA although ;juan mkkain 'and 'dead kennedy' would have liked it that way , also the bush dynasty . I like the stalemate and stoppage of government . All I am interested in is rebuilding USA military , building a border wall , stopping ALL immigration and a few other things that the Trump may do if he can . As far as mrobamas hacks , Trump has already said that he will get rid of them Flaccatenn .

 

[pismoe]

and on the Concept of being liberal on immigration or the importation of foreigners into the USA . WHY would I and other AMERICANS want to be more liberal ?? Check out population numbers in the USA . In 1970 when I was a very young adult the population in the USA was about 200 million . In the year 2010 the USA population was ABOUT 310 million plus an illegal population of anywhere between 11 and 30 million illegals. The government politicians say that the number of illegals is 11 million for the last 20 years or so . Anyway , why would I want more liberal immigration into the USA . When these imports get into the USA all they do is become voting blocks , elect their own particular brand of people and then lobby for the things that THEY , the imported outsiders want . One example could be 'muslims' wanting 'sharia' law in Minnesota . --- Minnesota Muslims brutally honest: ‘We want Shariah’ --- see Amis video , why does the USA import muslims that would replace USA law with 'sharia law' if they can do it Flaccatenn ?? Same thinking on people , third worlders from south of the USA border that believe that the USA stole some Western states from Mexico ?? Doesn't make any sense Flaccatenn .

 

[pismoe]

and then the laws / rules that forbid discrimination and slighting Mexicans or muslims are another example of removing freedom from Americans . No muslims , no Mexicans in the USA and then no complaints or laws protecting them from being discriminated against . Just a thought but the Mexicans and muslims that have already ozzed into the USA oughta assimililate so that they think and do as Americans think and do Flaccatenn . ------------------- I mean , some Mexicans go crazy because a football teams players wears 'sombrero' hats and the offended Mexican look for an apology . Same for muslims that don't want to see American style FREE SPEECH if a person draws a cartoon of Mohamad in America the land of FREE SPEECH . Yeah , immigrants , what are they good for Flaccatenn ?? Why would Americans want more immigrants

 

[Dreamer]

Johnson are well only liberty..not liberal..

 

[TNHarley]

Lots of confusion about Libertarians being totally "open border" people,. In the IDEAL -- one of us will leap to statements that rightfully concern people. But 2 things stand out..

1) While the Lib Party supports generous immigration policies --- at the SAME time -- we are adamantly AGAINST providing govt incentives that ENCOURAGE mass migration. Like no guarantees of subsidized Health Care, Welfare, Fast track citizenship for minors, Reduced College fees, etc for non-citizens. That's an important point often left out. Since the INCENTIVES to cross the border have astronomically increased since the last "amnesty".

2) Similar to that important missed point is the fact that we respect ALL of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights -- not the parts we like. So in our platform -- when immigration is discussed -- we INCLUDE the appropriate Constitutional duties of the Fed Govt..

Platform

3.4 Free Trade and Migration

We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders. However, we support control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a credible threat to security, health or property.

At no time during his 8 years as a border state governor -- did Gary Johnson go out of his way to make illegal immigrants "comfortable and secure" with the funds of his state. No sanctuary doctrines. No attempts to "open the border".

The majority of tactical libertarian thought on amnesty/deportation is not that far from a moderate from either DEM/REP sides.

Immigration

For those workers already in the United States illegally, we can avoid "amnesty" and still offer a pathway out of the underground economy. Newly legalized workers can be assessed fines and back taxes and serve probation befitting the misdemeanor they've committed. They can be required to take their place at the back of the line should they eventually apply for permanent residency.

In any party -- you will have the purists that only approve of the "end goal ideals".. (especially in the Bernie camp). So you will hear a lot of ideals coming from Libertarians. But the party is prepared to govern as a moderate instrument of change without dogmatically trying to instantly make-over everything in the "ideal". These purists will probably show up angry about this thread.

Do not let "ideals" scare you...

More BETTER Lib Party info as the shit approaches the fan in November.

From his website : Governors Johnson and Weld believe that, instead of appealing to emotions and demonizing immigrants, we should focus on creating a more efficient system of providing work visas, conducting background checks, and incentivizing non-citizens to pay their taxes, obtain proof of employment, and otherwise assimilate with our diverse society.
Which pretty much sounds like amnesty.