Johnson We could all be more "liberal" on Immigration -- If Govt worked correctly.

Discussion in 'Gary Johnson' started by flacaltenn, Aug 2, 2016.

  1. flacaltenn
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    flacaltenn Senior Mod Staff Member Senior USMB Moderator Gold Supporting Member

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    Lots of confusion about Libertarians being totally "open border" people,. In the IDEAL -- one of us will leap to statements that rightfully concern people. But 2 things stand out..

    1) While the Lib Party supports generous immigration policies --- at the SAME time -- we are adamantly AGAINST providing govt incentives that ENCOURAGE mass migration. Like no guarantees of subsidized Health Care, Welfare, Fast track citizenship for minors, Reduced College fees, etc for non-citizens. That's an important point often left out. Since the INCENTIVES to cross the border have astronomically increased since the last "amnesty".

    2) Similar to that important missed point is the fact that we respect ALL of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights -- not the parts we like. So in our platform -- when immigration is discussed -- we INCLUDE the appropriate Constitutional duties of the Fed Govt..

    Platform

    3.4 Free Trade and Migration

    We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders. However, we support control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a credible threat to security, health or property
    .

    At no time during his 8 years as a border state governor -- did Gary Johnson go out of his way to make illegal immigrants "comfortable and secure" with the funds of his state. No sanctuary doctrines. No attempts to "open the border".

    The majority of tactical libertarian thought on amnesty/deportation is not that far from a moderate from either DEM/REP sides.

    Immigration

    For those workers already in the United States illegally, we can avoid "amnesty" and still offer a pathway out of the underground economy. Newly legalized workers can be assessed fines and back taxes and serve probation befitting the misdemeanor they've committed. They can be required to take their place at the back of the line should they eventually apply for permanent residency.

    In any party -- you will have the purists that only approve of the "end goal ideals".. (especially in the Bernie camp). So you will hear a lot of ideals coming from Libertarians. But the party is prepared to govern as a moderate instrument of change without dogmatically trying to instantly make-over everything in the "ideal". These purists will probably show up angry about this thread.

    Do not let "ideals" scare you...

    More BETTER Lib Party info as the shit approaches the fan in November. :mm:
     
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  2. flacaltenn
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    flacaltenn Senior Mod Staff Member Senior USMB Moderator Gold Supporting Member

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    The "southern border crisis" is entirely govt made. There is a law that prevents undocumented aliens from working. There is even a system that taxpayers PAID FOR -- that let's employers check immigration SSec status. (E-Verify)

    All undocumented laborers COULD BE unemployed tomorrow. Without a freakin' wall or a mass deportation.

    So why is there a problem? Yup --- it's collusion between the parties. And pandering to constituencies.

    Start DOCUMENTING the workers you want and allow to work -- and STOP the employment of those that are not --- and we could ALL be more liberal about immigration issues tomorrow.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 2, 2016
  3. william the wie
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    william the wie Gold Member

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    We also need to get bumper stickers and street signs out.
     
  4. flacaltenn
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    flacaltenn Senior Mod Staff Member Senior USMB Moderator Gold Supporting Member

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    Still getting blowback about being Open Borders. Open Borders is what we have NOW.
    The plan is to enforce the Constitution and establish a PROCESS for temporary workers and other classes of immigrants. And be generous with the documentation as long as the "magnets" of free stuff is cut off.

    If you have a LEGAL process -- you can enforce the EXISTING LAW to deny work to UNdocumented aliens.


    From the campaign site..

    Sign to Support a Realistic Approach to Immigration



    Having served as Governor of a border state, Gary Johnson knows the complex issues associated with immigration reform first hand. Solving immigration problems is not as easy as building a wall or simply offering amnesty.

    We should appreciate and respect the diversity of immigrants that come to the United States to be productive members of society. But we also need to recognize that everyone who comes here is not so well-intentioned.

    Gary Johnson and Bill Weld don’t want to build an expensive and useless wall. The only thing a big wall will do is increase the size of the ladders, the depth of the tunnels, and the width of the divisions between us.

    Candidates who say they want to militarize the border, build fences, and impose punitive measures on good people, ground their position in popular rhetoric, not practical solutions.

    Governors Johnson and Weld believe that, instead of appealing to emotions and demonizing immigrants, we should focus on creating a more efficient system of providing work visas, conducting background checks, and incentivizing non-citizens to pay their taxes, obtain proof of employment, and otherwise assimilate with our diverse society.

    Making it simpler and more efficient to enter the United States legally will provide greater security than a wall by allowing law enforcement to focus on those who threaten our country, not those who want to be a part of it.

    Practical Reform. No Walls. Incentivize Assimilation.

     
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  5. pismoe
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    pismoe Gold Member

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    I want NO immigration except for very limited immigration of only the best people for specific reasons minus family except for one wife and kids . No one has a RIGHT to immigrate to the USA Flacaltenn. --------------- just saying !!
     
  6. pismoe
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    pismoe Gold Member

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    I went to a Dennys Libertarian mixer 20 years ago . It was a coffee meeting . All the attendees that came were only interested in the legalization of dope . As the mixr came to an end everyone paid their dollar but no one had money to tip the waitress .
     
  7. flacaltenn
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    flacaltenn Senior Mod Staff Member Senior USMB Moderator Gold Supporting Member

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    Yeah.. Must be why the party is now led by 2 successful 8 year Governors. Must be the poverty and the dope..
    All you really need to know is that the LParty has been 25 years AHEAD of "your guys" since we started. And all of the many things we've be creamed for are now accepted American thought and policy. 18 states will have some form of marijuana decriminalization on the ballot this year. Told you repeatedly that you couldn't farm Democracy to the MEast. And YOU created smoking ruins and deaths and terrorist hot beds. When you gonna stop being so damn wrong?

    YOUR guys have fucked up most everything they've touched.

    BTW --- THIS thread is about immigration. And good for you on your views. I don't want to round up granny/grandpa with the American offspring. They don't need to be citizens ever, but they have rejuvenated sloppy ugly portions of cities from coast to coast.

    And YOUR GUYS again, could stop immigration tomorrow on the Southern border by enforcing the EXISTING laws on not hiring undocumented workers. Tell me WHY you believe that simple fix has never happened.

    And then you should probably go and support YOUR candidate -- if you just don't like this saner alternative.
     
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  8. pismoe
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    pismoe Gold Member

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    I think that the bushes and dems , mrobama want to water down Americans . Doesn't really matter to me , I am an older male Trump supporter thats not really looking for much except to Exclude more immigrant and to make America great again in the way that I think America should be Great Flaceltenn .
     
  9. pismoe
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    pismoe Gold Member

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    I told you my experience with libertarians and I personally think that libertaians that don't know what 'allepo' is are boneheads . Didn't Gary Johnson also say that he was happy that no one was hurt in the Minnesota muslim stabbings huh , Flaceltenn ??
     
  10. pismoe
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    pismoe Gold Member

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    and I DO support the Trump Flaceltenn !! All other candidates seem to be boneheads and un' American . Gary Johnson who is lax on borders and pro immigration seems to be Brain damaged , in my opinion Flaceltenn !!
     
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