We can't abandon israel, though it may be prophesied

[rtwngAvngr]

I don't care about Newguy and his biblical fatalism. We cannot abandon israel.

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
I don't care about Newguy and his biblical fatalism. We cannot abandon israel.

Why? Who made us defenders of Israel?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by HGROKIT
Why? Who made us defenders of Israel?

Now THAT is a good question. William?

 

[phadras]

defender of Israel nearly from the get-go.. The U.S. and the U.S.S.R. were the first nations to recognize the new nation.. We since have backed them to the hilt at the U.N. and sold them some of our most advanced weaponry.. In addition during the 1973 Yom Kippur war the U.S. provided emergency fighter plane replacements to Israel, literally taking planes out of U.S. current use and painting out the Air Force symbols and relacing them with the Star of David.. So the answer is----- learned friends---we Americans...

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by phadras
defender of Israel nearly from the get-go.. The U.S. and the U.S.S.R. were the first nations to recognize the new nation.. We since have backed them to the hilt at the U.N. and sold them some of our most advanced weaponry.. In addition during the 1973 Yom Kippur war the U.S. provided emergency fighter plane replacements to Israel, literally taking planes out of U.S. current use and painting out the Air Force symbols and relacing them with the Star of David.. So the answer is----- learned friends---we Americans...

Thanks for the History Lesson; you've yet to answer the original question however.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

We made us the defenders of Israel. And we cannot back out now, regardless of biblical fatalism.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
We made us the defenders of Israel. And we cannot back out now, regardless of biblical fatalism.

The point is not that we SHOULD.

In fact, we SHOULDN'T.

But, we WILL.

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
We made us the defenders of Israel. And we cannot back out now, regardless of biblical fatalism.

I got that and that was understood in the original response to my "why?" question. Let me rephrase my question.

Why?




I have yet to read or hear a cogent argument that explains the answer to that question.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

"No Fate"

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by HGROKIT
I got that and that was understood in the original response to my "why?" question. Let me rephrase my question.

Why?




I have yet to read or hear a cogent argument that explains the answer to that question.

They're an ally and a freedom oriented society in an otherwise enemy filled and despotic area. Even in the most crass way, it's advantageous for us to have an ally in the region.

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
"No Fate"

uh - don't mean to appear mentall challenged here, but care to expound?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
"No Fate"

Genesis chapter 11
King James Version
1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.



It was destroyed because people tried to reach God and get around "the system" He created. You cannot deny fate.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Genesis chapter 11
King James Version
1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.



It was destroyed because people tried to reach God and get around "the system" He created. You cannot deny fate.

"God helps those who help themselves". Where is that from anyway?

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
They're an ally and a freedom oriented society in an otherwise enemy filled and despotic area. Even in the most crass way, it's advantageous for us to have an ally in the region.

Now we are getting to the heart of the matter. That is all the stuff that was used to support them originally. I agree with the ally part, but I also think that the alliance has also been somewhat of a boat anchor.

When the Brits started this whole thing was back when, there was at that time no real reason for us to get involved, but we got sucked in. It was a disater from the beginning due to planning and methodology. It was basically, "here, this is your land and this is their land" and that was it.

For whatever reason that is yet unclear to me, we then became their defender. Typically, we do such things when it is in our national interest - I can find no such interest in this instance. I am by no means anti-semetic, just can't see the reasoning behind us seeming to be at Israel's beck and call.

NewGuy - I always enjoy your posts becasue I think I share the same belief system with you. However, the original thread was started with the caveat to exlude biblical reasoning. So, in light of that, I am trying to determine what the "worldly" justification is for our unseeminly endless support of a country other than the fact that the Brits, arabs and Exytians seemd to have amde a mess of this whole thing many years ago.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
"God helps those who help themselves". Where is that from anyway?

Cultural Literacy--A liberal movement to shape understanding and change history in the classroom.

That ought to make you barf.

Here ya go:

Jerimiah 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.
7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.

Proverbs 28:25 He that is of a proud heart stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat.
26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
27 He that giveth unto the poor shall not lack: but he that hideth his eyes shall have many a curse.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

In the most crass way, think of it as a puppet state who will look after our interests an give us a modicum of sanctuary and support in a strategically important area. It's a neocon thing, you wouldn't understand.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by HGROKIT

NewGuy - I always enjoy your posts becasue I think I share the same belief system with you. However, the original thread was started with the caveat to exlude biblical reasoning. So, in light of that, I am trying to determine what the "worldly" justification is for our unseeminly endless support of a country other than the fact that the Brits, arabs and Exytians seemd to have amde a mess of this whole thing many years ago.

You can't.

We had God fearing people way back then and the politicians had to watch their back to some degree.

In addition, there was always the oil potential.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I'm ready to die a martyr's death for crude oil and judaism.

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
It's a neocon thing, you wouldn't understand.

I am fairly conservative in my values, both morally and plitically, but since I do not consider myself a "neocon" I'll take that as a compliment and disgregard the insinuation about any lack of understanding.

So, I'll just end it with "what we have here if a failure, to communicate".

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by NewGuy
... there was always the oil potential.

That is probably closer to the truth than anything posted thus far.