We are so fuct.

Better in what way? If you mean better as in a growing economy than share the wealth. Let the middle class expand. But the problem is that the middle class consumes far more resources for every dollar they earn than billionaires do. As the BRIC nation's general standard of living increases, and the west's general standard declines, resource consumption will go vertical.

And since that isn't sustainable some compromise must be reached in order to hold societies together.

Back the truck up and :eusa_think:

How you would answer the simple question of:

Which do you think is better for a US factory worker...

6,000 Chinese with $7 Billion to spend,

or

7 Billion Chinese with $60,000 to spend?​

Think about the guy on the slime line in Alaska canning salmon.

Think about the woman who inspects new Ford Trucks before they're shipped.

Think about the Night Auditor at the Marriott in LA.

Think about the couple who run the bar and sandwich shop next to the Honda factory in Ohio.

Now,

Which do you think is better for the US,

6,000 Chinese with $7 Billion each to spend,

or

7 Billion Chinese with $60,000 each to spend?​

If the executives and line workers alike at Ford and BMW don't have big, throbbing boners over this, they need to find a new line of work.

I can't answer for the line workers, but we both know what the execs want.

As for the lower classes in both nations: If world wide demand for already scarce resources goes because another third of the world is employed at low wage, low skilled jobs in the developing world then workers in the US are fucked.
We already pay about 3-4 times as much for many or most commodities and products than folks do in the developing world.

The line workers in the developing world will end up with more money, but it won't buy much more than they had before. The line workers in the US will see declining purchasing power coupled with declining real wages. Much as we are now, and much as line workers in the developing world are now. Hence the austerity riots, food riots, civil unrest and Wisconsin protests.

Think about this now...

If suddenly 7 Billion people on this planet could afford to buy more than just the basics of food clothing and shelter, wouldn't it be a great time to own or work for a factory that made quality, in demand stuff?

This thinking doesn't fly in the face of the Supply and Demand price curve, it just remembers to consider the resulting changes in production factored against the HUGE variety of organizations on this planet that do indeed produce something.
 
7 Billion Chinese with $60,000 to spend?[/INDENT][/INDENT]

Think about the guy on the slime line in Alaska canning salmon.

Think about the woman who inspects new Ford Trucks before they're shipped.

Think about the Night Auditor at the Marriott in LA.

Think about the couple who run the bar and sandwich shop next to the Honda factory in Ohio.

Now,

Which do you think is better for the US,

6,000 Chinese with $7 Billion each to spend,

or

7 Billion Chinese with $60,000 each to spend?​

If the executives and line workers alike at Ford and BMW don't have big, throbbing boners over this, they need to find a new line of work.

You bring up another very good point, and another interesting wrinkle:

(Speaking strictly from a US perspective)

Manufacturing in the US has increasingly moved outside the country, primarily driven by the cost of labor. While corporations will obviously adapt as quickly as possible to fill demand, the labor employed will remain heavily outside the borders, while the profits come rolling in. It is logical that a good portion of those profits will be reinvested in increased production. But where?

We've got to figure out how to make that production happen HERE, which is not the trend of late, in order to capitalize most efficiently. Same for the Germans.

Big Industries will make the shift quickly, I believe. But what of small business.....to me.....that is where the real opportunities lie, and the real challenges....and ultimately, the success or failure, in a global positioning sense.

Its a VERY complex problem, it really is. There is a trickle down (don't anyone get too excited :) that has to be weathered. That is the basis for my "generation of suffering/sacrifice" comments. It won't happen overnight, but the economy that gets that part of the problem solved the fastest will be the winner.

That needs to be us, but then, we also have that "we owe China a buttload of money" thing hanging around our neck too.

We gotta do what we in The West do so well. We gotta find a legal Chinese hunger and figure out a profitable way to feed it. Mom & Pop style at first but big business is sure to follow. At least this is our current MO - If we keep going down the Social Democratic path with Obama it will end up being planned economy -vs- planned economy and if that happens China will win because their government model produces a much narrower and focused 10 year vision than our government model possibly can.

Our government model needs the 5, 10 and 20 year visions of individuals risking their own balls and bank accounts to produce something worth buying. The more Moms & Pops the merrier too... that's why the Corporate Consolidation of the 1980's and the Merger Madness of the 1990's sucked such big pigs for our economy.

More evidence of a need for ground up reform of corporate structure and tax codes in America.
 
(Speaking strictly from a US perspective)

Manufacturing in the US has increasingly moved outside the country, primarily driven by the cost of labor. While corporations will obviously adapt as quickly as possible to fill demand, the labor employed will remain heavily outside the borders, while the profits come rolling in. It is logical that a good portion of those profits will be reinvested in increased production. But where?

We've got to figure out how to make that production happen HERE, which is not the trend of late, in order to capitalize most efficiently. Same for the Germans.

I agree, but good luck with that. Now that the world is no longer buying our toxic securities and bogus financial assets the bulk of our exports are in the form of raw materials and food. We can't make anything anymore that isn't made from Chinese parts and with Chinese tools.

We don't have an economy anymore.

Somebody on this board is fond of dissing the Chinese economy because 100% of their GDP increase in the last decade came from growth.

Great, but MORE than 100% of the US GDP increase also came from growth over the last 20 years. Growth has been our biggest industry since WWII.

And we aren't growing anymore. We may be shrinking from an honest book keeping pov.

All too true. All too sad but true.

:boohoo:

We've only lost if we give up.



Insist on tax code and corporate structure simplification and reform.

Insist on term limits for politicians.

Work toward building an economy with simple paperwork that ANYBODY can join as an entrepreneur, even if they can't yet afford to have a lawyer and a CPA on retainer.
 
China is trying to move towards more power to the people.

The right in this country are trying to move away from power to the people.


The right is promoting ideas that hand our corps more and more money and power.


Why are they doing this and to what end?

You are utterly lost in this discussion.

You have no fucking clue what this is about, so you're desperately trying to make it about something you think you understand.

We have met the enemy and it be us.
 
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