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You did not answer the question.They have all the leverage in the first place, no working class labor negotiation has ever been an equal contest.
Do employers also have rights?
Of course they have rights, they are protected nine ways to Sunday by any number of property rights, their greater wealth and most of all their upper-hand in any labor negotiations, pretty obvious stuff, yet many love to chisel away at the pretty weak leverage workers have through labor law and the right to sue, never mind the rapidly diminishing union's ability to bring some lawyers along to keep management honest.
My father was union and he used to tell us stories of scabs being shot at, their children being beaten in school by the unions children ganging up on them.....of scabs being followed home and beaten...You did not answer the question.
Do employers also have rights?
Of course they have rights, they are protected nine ways to Sunday by any number of property rights, their greater wealth and most of all their upper-hand in any labor negotiations, pretty obvious stuff, yet many love to chisel away at the pretty weak leverage workers have through labor law and the right to sue, never mind the rapidly diminishing union's ability to bring some lawyers along to keep management honest.
Can the company hire scabs? Can said scabs go to work without fear of having shit thrown through their windows? Will the striking workers be really drunk, throw beer bottles and cans at passing management? Will said striking workers block off the interstate entrance ramp? Should unions go on strike when it's benefits or company liquidation?
Curious, but have you been in a union or on strike?
I never had an adversarial relationship with an employer until I joined a union shop.No,
I just hate unions that screw over tens of thousands of workers because they can't work with the employer. 18,000 jobs gone from hostess because they couldn't be reasonable.
There's a difference between getting the best for the worker and screwing the worker over.
We've had plenty of threads about unions pro and con, I was after something more basic, what rights the union haters think workers themselves have in labor disputes and if the government should back up these rights with the law.
they have the right to try and get an employer to do what they want by striking.
they have the right to leave.
they also have the right to watch the position they just walked out on replaced with someone who is willing to work.
Should the government make laws to protect people who have quit their jobs..... no.
We already know you think all workers should be on their own no matter how shitty they are treated, why repeat yourself?
I think unions need to learn the profit margin. They can bargain fairly with the employer.
I'm all for that. When they go for the throat is what I hate.
I agree.I think unions need to learn the profit margin. They can bargain fairly with the employer.
I'm all for that. When they go for the throat is what I hate.
My father was union and he used to tell us stories of scabs being shot at, their children being beaten in school by the unions children ganging up on them.....of scabs being followed home and beaten...Of course they have rights, they are protected nine ways to Sunday by any number of property rights, their greater wealth and most of all their upper-hand in any labor negotiations, pretty obvious stuff, yet many love to chisel away at the pretty weak leverage workers have through labor law and the right to sue, never mind the rapidly diminishing union's ability to bring some lawyers along to keep management honest.
Can the company hire scabs? Can said scabs go to work without fear of having shit thrown through their windows? Will the striking workers be really drunk, throw beer bottles and cans at passing management? Will said striking workers block off the interstate entrance ramp? Should unions go on strike when it's benefits or company liquidation?
Curious, but have you been in a union or on strike?
He died a union man, die in the wool union man to the end. but he always look at the wall when he told us those stories. Not that I thought he'd done it, but I could tell he didnt' agree with those tactics.
I think unions need to learn the profit margin. They can bargain fairly with the employer.
I'm all for that. When they go for the throat is what I hate.
I think unions need to learn the profit margin. They can bargain fairly with the employer.
I'm all for that. When they go for the throat is what I hate.
I agree.I think unions need to learn the profit margin. They can bargain fairly with the employer.
I'm all for that. When they go for the throat is what I hate.
the only unions I am against is public unions.....private unions...hey, get what you can.....but don't expect much from Me. I simply disagree with the way the board fucks over the rank and file.
LOLMy father was union and he used to tell us stories of scabs being shot at, their children being beaten in school by the unions children ganging up on them.....of scabs being followed home and beaten...Can the company hire scabs? Can said scabs go to work without fear of having shit thrown through their windows? Will the striking workers be really drunk, throw beer bottles and cans at passing management? Will said striking workers block off the interstate entrance ramp? Should unions go on strike when it's benefits or company liquidation?
Curious, but have you been in a union or on strike?
He died a union man, die in the wool union man to the end. but he always look at the wall when he told us those stories. Not that I thought he'd done it, but I could tell he didnt' agree with those tactics.
fear..... fear is what he felt so he toed the line.
I think unions need to learn the profit margin. They can bargain fairly with the employer.
I'm all for that. When they go for the throat is what I hate.
Management always goes for the throat when they decide to squeeze some more productivity out of the same workers who have been squeezed for more productivity every quarter or so, It's the most callous, lazy and unimaginative way possible to get profits up, when does it end? Do they ever have the justification to fight back?
Yep, and that in and of itself causes problems. That is another discussion however.I agree.I think unions need to learn the profit margin. They can bargain fairly with the employer.
I'm all for that. When they go for the throat is what I hate.
the only unions I am against is public unions.....private unions...hey, get what you can.....but don't expect much from Me. I simply disagree with the way the board fucks over the rank and file.
It's like, hey, you guys haven't actually given me a whole lot but bbqs and the ability not to work overtime, thanks! Yes, they got me the awesome health, dental, and vision, however those are now so ingrained in the company for so long that the Teamsters don't need to fight for it anymore.
I think unions need to learn the profit margin. They can bargain fairly with the employer.
I'm all for that. When they go for the throat is what I hate.
Management always goes for the throat when they decide to squeeze some more productivity out of the same workers who have been squeezed for more productivity every quarter or so, It's the most callous, lazy and unimaginative way possible to get profits up, when does it end? Do they ever have the justification to fight back?
Who's management?
LOLMy father was union and he used to tell us stories of scabs being shot at, their children being beaten in school by the unions children ganging up on them.....of scabs being followed home and beaten...
He died a union man, die in the wool union man to the end. but he always look at the wall when he told us those stories. Not that I thought he'd done it, but I could tell he didnt' agree with those tactics.
fear..... fear is what he felt so he toed the line.
No, you didn't know My father....He feared no man...not even the Union bosses...but as I said...he was a union man, committed to the cause like you read about...He was Union in the early 50's on....so he saw the fight for better working conditions first hand....
Unions did good work and good things for labor in this country. No one can deny that. No one who is honest with themselves at any rate...
But the Unions have all become corrupt and their day is past....They have the right to assembly......they do not have the right to break the law.
Ah..LOLfear..... fear is what he felt so he toed the line.
No, you didn't know My father....He feared no man...not even the Union bosses...but as I said...he was a union man, committed to the cause like you read about...He was Union in the early 50's on....so he saw the fight for better working conditions first hand....
Unions did good work and good things for labor in this country. No one can deny that. No one who is honest with themselves at any rate...
But the Unions have all become corrupt and their day is past....They have the right to assembly......they do not have the right to break the law.
maybe not him.. but fear and violence is what unions deal in.
I am not saying unions did not have a place in the past, nor that they did not help the general workers..... The did. There was a time when the unions.. were about the workers. That is not the case anymore.
Management always goes for the throat when they decide to squeeze some more productivity out of the same workers who have been squeezed for more productivity every quarter or so, It's the most callous, lazy and unimaginative way possible to get profits up, when does it end? Do they ever have the justification to fight back?
Who's management?
No, seriously, I always hear about this boogyman named MANAGMENT, but who is it? Is it the first line soop? Is it the shift soop? Is it the CEOs? Franchise owners? Everybody not in the union? I mean, seriously, who is it?
That would kind of negate the sole leverage workers have in a strike would it not? So the your answer is no?Just curious about this, not looking for the same old rant about unions being selfish or corrupt but an exploration of a right (collective bargaining) that did not always exist and seems to be in greater peril than ever. To be specific: Do American workers have the right to collectively bargain, to strike if unsuccessful, and to be protected from undue retaliation under the law?
they have very right to get together and try and bargain all they want. The also have every right to strike and walk off the job to try an force their employer to meet their terms and do as they want...
however.... the employer should ALSO have the right to fire anyone who walks off the job, obstructs others from doing their jobs or preventing anyone from patronizing the employer....and replacing them.
I think unions need to learn the profit margin. They can bargain fairly with the employer.
I'm all for that. When they go for the throat is what I hate.
Management always goes for the throat when they decide to squeeze some more productivity out of the same workers who have been squeezed for more productivity every quarter or so, It's the most callous, lazy and unimaginative way possible to get profits up, when does it end? Do they ever have the justification to fight back?
