Watch the web for climate change truths

[Gungnir]

#4
#5 Trees, algea tanks on tops of Skyscrapers.

 

[cbi0090]

But we do know.... we know we're a contributing and accellerating factor. We know we have control over the means of curbing that accelleration.

Only the "junk science" says otherwise... and, unfortunately, it's muddied the water for some people (although for the life of me, I don't understand how).

I don't know who (although I could pretty well guess) is telling you that we do know these things but it is a lie or falsehood or, at best, a misguided statement. We don't know this. It is a theory that unfortunately has not had the chance to be proven one way or another before the media got hold of it and basically created enough frenzy (i.e. money making news) to essentially interfer with any real scientific conclusion. They love to hang out in academic hallways and pick up any little tidbit of doom and gloom and blow it out of proportion. This whole situation is exacerbated by the fact that these researchers need money and, unfortunately, some of them learn that a little media attention goes a long way in getting it. It also didn't help that many in the UN caught on to the idea that if they came up with some kind of a carbon credit system, based on the same unproven theory, they could bilk the U.S. out of a whole wad of cash. Of course, they'd have to excuse China, India, ect. because, well...you know...they wouldn't pay?? and it doesn't matter the China is a bigger polluter than the U.S. now. We just have to pay because basically we're easy to make feel guilty for just about anything that seems bad. You'd think we were all raised Catholic or something.
If you really look at the facts, what we really know, the evidence doesn't exist. I'm not saying we shouldn't investigate it, or other theories as well, we should. But don't go selling your winter coats just yet.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

How ironic the above opinion piece was written on April 5th, right before temp data for march came out, showing March to be the 2nd hottest March since 1880.

Whooops to the conservative anti-science community. I tried to tell you all that a couple months in a row of temps that are cooler than they were a few years ago doesn't mean much.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080418112341.htm

 

[Chris]

The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased by one third in the last 200 years. The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is higher than at any time in the last 600,000 years, which is as far back as the Antarctic ice core record goes. The hottest years on record are all within the last 10 years. 50% of the North Polar Ice Cap has melted since 1950.

Alternative energy will be the biggest and most profitable industry of the 21st century. The Danes already get 20% of their energy from wind. The Israelis are building the largest solar power plant in the world. When will we get it?

 

[BrianH]

The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased by one third in the last 200 years. The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is higher than at any time in the last 600,000 years, which is as far back as the Antarctic ice core record goes. The hottest years on record are all within the last 10 years. 50% of the North Polar Ice Cap has melted since 1950.

Alternative energy will be the biggest and most profitable industry of the 21st century. The Danes already get 20% of their energy from wind. The Israelis are building the largest solar power plant in the world. When will we get it?

Water vapor is more of a green-house gas than CO2. CO2 helps, but is not the main problem. What caused the Ice Age? What ended the Ice Age? What caused and ended the Little Ice Age? (Neither were humans burning fossil fuels or cows farting). There is more at work in the solar system than humans. OTher planets are warming as well. The key word in your statement was the "hottest years on record." You say that CO2 is the highest it's been in 600,000 years, however, we don't have records of the rate or warming or cooling for that long. I'm not saying the globe isn't warming or that humans aren't contributing, but I think there's far more going on than just humans burning fossil fuels.

 

[Chris]

Water vapor is more of a green-house gas than CO2. CO2 helps, but is not the main problem. What caused the Ice Age? What ended the Ice Age? What caused and ended the Little Ice Age? (Neither were humans burning fossil fuels or cows farting). There is more at work in the solar system than humans. OTher planets are warming as well. The key word in your statement was the "hottest years on record." You say that CO2 is the highest it's been in 600,000 years, however, we don't have records of the rate or warming or cooling for that long. I'm not saying the globe isn't warming or that humans aren't contributing, but I think there's far more going on than just humans burning fossil fuels.

Matching your opinion against the evidence, I think you lose. The Little Ice Age was caused by volcanic eruptions that blocked sunlight at the equator. No one disputes this. Why? Because oil companies don't own volcanoes.

 

[BrianH]

Matching your opinion against the evidence, I think you lose. The Little Ice Age was caused by volcanic eruptions that blocked sunlight at the equator. No one disputes this. Why? Because oil companies don't own volcanoes.

I'm well aware of the theories...

" Climatologists and historians find it difficult to agree on either the start or end dates of this period"

"One of the difficulties in identifying the causes of the Little Ice Age is the lack of consensus on what constitutes "normal" climate"

Little Ice Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The Little Ice Age came after a period known as the Medieval Warming Period....what caused this? Fossil Fuels???

THere is more at work in our Solar System than humans burning fossil fuels. How do you explain other planets, in our solar system, warming as well?

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

 

[Chris]

No one argues that there are other factors involved in climate change. But increasing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere by one third is a huge change, and the speed with which the north pole is melting is alarming.

But even if there was no global warming, we need to find other forms of energy. Why not be the world leader in the most important industry of the 21st century?

 

[BrianH]

No one argues that there are other factors involved in climate change. But increasing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere by one third is a huge change, and the speed with which the north pole is melting is alarming.

But even if there was no global warming, we need to find other forms of energy. Why not be the world leader in the most important industry of the 21st century?

Ok, that I can agree with. I am for cleaning up our act and not emitting CO2.
I just feel that CO2 is a scam for those selling carbon credits and those earning Nobel Peace Prizes. Sure, it's bad for the environment, but I believe it's highly exaggerated. There are other forces at work that affect it way more than CO2 does. I'll agree with you on your current statements.

 

[cbi0090]

No one argues that there are other factors involved in climate change. But increasing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere by one third is a huge change, and the speed with which the north pole is melting is alarming.

But even if there was no global warming, we need to find other forms of energy. Why not be the world leader in the most important industry of the 21st century?

The fact that it has increased so rapidly is actually a big piece of evidence that it isn't the result of man-made activity (we just aren't producing that much). It's kind of like cholestorol readings. You can't eat enough bad fat to produce the amount of cholestorol your body produces. This doesn't mean diet doesn't contribute but we know a lot of it is just plain genetic. It's the same here. Common sense tells us we're probably contributing, and we should do what we can to rein in on it, but a lot of it is just plain genetic, so to speak.

 

[Chris]

The fact that it has increased so rapidly is actually a big piece of evidence that it isn't the result of man-made activity (we just aren't producing that much). It's kind of like cholestorol readings. You can't eat enough bad fat to produce the amount of cholestorol your body produces. This doesn't mean diet doesn't contribute but we know a lot of it is just plain genetic. It's the same here. Common sense tells us we're probably contributing, and we should do what we can to rein in on it, but a lot of it is just plain genetic, so to speak.

The fact that CO2 in the atmosphere has increased so rapidly is actually evidence that it isn't the result of man-made activity? So pouring millions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere and burning down the Amazon rainforest is not the reason for the rapid increase in CO2? What is then?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

"the media's one-sided view" -

Now that's not entirely true. The media still does occasionally defer to the scientific experts, instead of to right wing blogs and Republican think tanks, on science.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased by one third in the last 200 years. The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is higher than at any time in the last 600,000 years, which is as far back as the Antarctic ice core record goes. The hottest years on record are all within the last 10 years. 50% of the North Polar Ice Cap has melted since 1950.

Yeah, but this February was kind of cold, and everyone knows the existence of lack of existence of global warming depends only on the temperature in February of 2008

 

[SpidermanTuba]

You say that CO2 is the highest it's been in 600,000 years, however, we don't have records of the rate or warming or cooling for that long.

?? Vostok cores go back almost that far, don't they?

 

[AllieBaba]

But we do know.... we know we're a contributing and accellerating factor. We know we have control over the means of curbing that accelleration.

Only the "junk science" says otherwise... and, unfortunately, it's muddied the water for some people (although for the life of me, I don't understand how).

No, we do not "know" that we're a contributing and accellerating factor. It has never been proven. I've read National Geographic articles, science mag articles..and they all say the same thing. It's an UNPROVEN THEORY. There's no proof. In fact, National Geographic did a huge spread a few years back on the carbon scare and the gist of the article was that, if there's all this carbon accumulating, where the hell is it? They can't find it, and it appears the earth is dealing with it quite effectively.

So find something that proves humans are adding to the problem and we have the power to curb the accelleration.

 

[BrianH]

?? Vostok cores go back almost that far, don't they?

Ice Cores yes, but it is not considered record. Ice Cores will not tell you how rapid the temperatures change. When the Earth was being formed, it was once a ball of ice (Not the Ice Age). Something melted all of it....what? I believe that the Sun has more to do with anything. Water Vapour is more of a greenhouse gas than CO2. All it really takes to warm the globe is for the Sun to be unusually hot for a few years and evaporate alot of water and send water vapour into the atmosphere....