Washington Post Editorial: Time To Rethink Iraq

[Annie]

Ah, that would be for Obama to step back and plan, (gasp), for success:

washingtonpost.com

The Iraqi Upturn
Don't look now, but the U.S.-backed government and army may be winning the war.

Sunday, June 1, 2008; B06

THERE'S BEEN a relative lull in news coverage and debate about Iraq in recent weeks -- which is odd, because May could turn out to have been one of the most important months of the war. While Washington's attention has been fixed elsewhere, military analysts have watched with astonishment as the Iraqi government and army have gained control for the first time of the port city of Basra and the sprawling Baghdad neighborhood of Sadr City, routing the Shiite militias that have ruled them for years and sending key militants scurrying to Iran. At the same time, Iraqi and U.S. forces have pushed forward with a long-promised offensive in Mosul, the last urban refuge of al-Qaeda. So many of its leaders have now been captured or killed that U.S. Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker, renowned for his cautious assessments, said that the terrorists have "never been closer to defeat than they are now."

Iraq passed a turning point last fall when the U.S. counterinsurgency campaign launched in early 2007 produced a dramatic drop in violence and quelled the incipient sectarian war between Sunnis and Shiites. Now, another tipping point may be near, one that sees the Iraqi government and army restoring order in almost all of the country, dispersing both rival militias and the Iranian-trained "special groups" that have used them as cover to wage war against Americans. It is -- of course -- too early to celebrate; though now in disarray, the Mahdi Army of Moqtada al-Sadr could still regroup, and Iran will almost certainly seek to stir up new violence before the U.S. and Iraqi elections this fall. Still, the rapidly improving conditions should allow U.S. commanders to make some welcome adjustments -- and it ought to mandate an already-overdue rethinking by the "this-war-is-lost" caucus in Washington, including Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.)...


...If the positive trends continue, proponents of withdrawing most U.S. troops, such as Mr. Obama, might be able to responsibly carry out further pullouts next year. Still, the likely Democratic nominee needs a plan for Iraq based on sustaining an improving situation, rather than abandoning a failed enterprise. That will mean tying withdrawals to the evolution of the Iraqi army and government, rather than an arbitrary timetable; Iraq's 2009 elections will be crucial. It also should mean providing enough troops and air power to continue backing up Iraqi army operations such as those in Basra and Sadr City. When Mr. Obama floated his strategy for Iraq last year, the United States appeared doomed to defeat. Now he needs a plan for success.

 

[Diuretic]

On the other hand:

So Al Qaeda Is Defeated, Eh? Go Tell It to the Marines | War on Iraq | AlterNet

And don't go nuts because it's AlterNet, it was in the UK Independent.

 

[Ravi]

Does anyone actually KNOW what's going on over there?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Does anyone actually KNOW what's going on over there?

Yes, the only ones that don't are you left wing crack pots that wouldn't believe a US commander but eat up what ever a terrorist says as truth.

 

[rayboyusmc]

Yes, the only ones that don't are you left wing crack pots that wouldn't believe a US commander but eat up what ever a terrorist says as truth.

You just eat your shit from a different plate, Retired. Don't act so patriotic and smart.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You just eat your shit from a different plate, Retired. Don't act so patriotic and smart.

I chose to believe MY countries Military leaders and MY President, I did the same for Clinton when he was in office. You may chose to believe our enemies and terrorists but don't pretend you are patriotic for doing so.

 

[rayboyusmc]

You may chose to believe our enemies and terrorists but don't pretend you are patriotic for doing so.

That's what makes you such an asshole. I never said that stupid piece of shit you wrote. You are such a fake. If someone doesn't agree with you then they believe the terrorists and our enemies.

Grow fucking up. Americans can disbelieve their president and some of the military leaders and still be good Americans and not supporters of our enemies.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That's what makes you such an asshole. I never said that stupid piece of shit you wrote. You are such a fake. If someone doesn't agree with you then they believe the terrorists and our enemies.

Grow fucking up. Americans can disbelieve their president and some of the military leaders and still be good Americans and not supporters of our enemies.

Bullshit. Absolute BULLSHIT. You are part of the problem when you start accepting the propaganda from terrorists that blow women and children up for no other reason then, well terror. I notice retards like you will cite the very government you disagree with when it happens to say something you LIKE.

I supported and still support Clinton on every military action he took, even though he "lied" and had no "exit" strategy for any of them, at least using YOUR definitions of those terms. I also supported his "propaganda" on why we should act.

In fact his military actions are something I can not believe he did, after the way he bad mouthed the military. But he did the right thing.

 

[Ravi]

Yes, the only ones that don't are you left wing crack pots that wouldn't believe a US commander but eat up what ever a terrorist says as truth.

Huh? You mean torturing people is just for fun since we can't believe terrorists?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Huh? You mean torturing people is just for fun since we can't believe terrorists?

Except you can not prove torture was conducted nor that it is systematic or common. In regards our Government.

In fact nothing I Government has done has ever been deemed legally to be Torture. Nor is all the hand wringing and crying by dumb shits gonna make the interrogation methods they employ, torture just cause you say so.

 

[TheGoodShepherd]

I chose to believe MY countries Military leaders and MY President,

Thats great, thanks for acknowledging you would sacrifice truth for loyalty.

And I bet you were one of those people who actually bought the pack of lies the military uttered when they purposefully exploited Pat Tillman's death with the concocted 'friendly fire' story they told his family.

Or how about when the military and government smeared Seymour Hersch when he claimed he had pictures of the abuse going on inside Abu Gharib. They called him a liar, said he didn't posses such photos and proceeded with the "Hersch is un-American narrative" as until Americans realized he actually did have incriminating photos.

There are many more examples. I'll leave you with my personal favourite: the elusive Iranian weapons claims

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/baby...he-elusiv.html

IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons

There was something interesting missing from Maj. Gen. Kevin Bergner's introductory remarks to journalists at his regular news briefing in Baghdad on Wednesday: the word "Iran," or any form of it. It was especially striking as Bergner, the U.S. military spokesman here, announced the extraordinary list of weapons and munitions that have been uncovered in recent weeks since fighting erupted between Iraqi and U.S. security forces and Shiite militiamen.

Among other things, Bergner cited 20,000 "items of ammunition, explosives and weapons" reported by Iraqi forces in the central city of Karbala; an additional Karbala cache containing 570 explosive devices, nine mortars, four anti-aircraft missiles, and 45 RPGs; and in the southern city of Basra alone, 39 mortar tubes, 1,800 mortars and artillery rounds, 600 rockets, and 387 roadside bombs. Read his remarks here.

Not once did Bergner point the finger at Iran for any of these weapons and munitions, which is a striking change from just a couple of weeks ago when U.S. military officials here and at the Pentagon were saying that caches found in Basra in particular had revealed Iranian-made arms manufactured as recently as this year. They say the majority of rockets being fired at U.S. bases, including Baghdad's Green Zone, are launched by militiamen receiving training, arms and other aid from Iran.

Today brought fresh attacks, including an unusual barrage fired at a military base used by British and U.S. forces in Basra, in southern Iraq. A statement said "several" rockets hit the base during the afternoon, and that initial reports indicated two civilian contractors were killed, and four soldiers and four civilians injured.

It was the first reported attack of its kind since March 27 in Basra.

Iraqi officials also have accused Iran of meddling in violence and had echoed the U.S. accusations of new Iranian-made arms being found in Basra. But neither the United States nor Iraq has displayed any of the alleged arms to the public or press, and lately it is looking less likely they will. U.S. military officials said it was up to the Iraqis to show the items; Iraqi officials lately have backed off the accusations against Iran.

A plan to show some alleged Iranian-supplied explosives to journalists last week in Karbala and then destroy them was canceled after the United States realized none of them was from Iran. A U.S. military spokesman attributed the confusion to a misunderstanding that emerged after an Iraqi Army general in Karbala erroneously reported the items were of Iranian origin.


When U.S. explosives experts went to investigate, they discovered they were not Iranian after all.

Iran, meanwhile, continues to seethe after an Iraqi delegation went to Tehran last week to confront it with the accusations. It has denied the accusations, and it says as long as U.S. forces continue to take part in military action in Iraq's Shiite strongholds, it won't consider holding further talks with Washington on how to stabilize Iraq.

—Tina Susman in Baghdad

02:47 PM PT, May 8 2008

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/baby...he-elusiv.html

 

[Ravi]

Except you can not prove torture was conducted nor that it is systematic or common. In regards our Government.

In fact nothing I Government has done has ever been deemed legally to be Torture. Nor is all the hand wringing and crying by dumb shits gonna make the interrogation methods they employ, torture just cause you say so.

But if you aren't going to believe them anyway, why bother?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

But if you aren't going to believe them anyway, why bother?

Last refuge, claim you can't provide proof cause it won't do any good. And if it were general knowledge you might gt away with it, but since it is NOT general knowledge.....

Sort of like the "Bush Lied" cries.

 

[Ravi]

Last refuge, claim you can't provide proof cause it won't do any good. And if it were general knowledge you might gt away with it, but since it is NOT general knowledge.....

Sort of like the "Bush Lied" cries.

Why question terrorists if you aren't going to believe them?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Why question terrorists if you aren't going to believe them?

You are a retard.

 

[Ravi]

You are a retard.

Sometimes.

I was thinking of that time you told me the Pentagon proved something and it turned out they got their "proof" from a terrorist.

 

[rayboyusmc]

Bullshit. Absolute BULLSHIT. You are part of the problem when you start accepting the propaganda from terrorists that blow women and children up for no other reason then, well terror. I notice retards like you will cite the very government you disagree with when it happens to say something you LIKE.

I am typing real slow for you retired. I haven't accepted shit from the terrorists. I have accepted information from some of our generals, some of our politicians and some commie newspapers that the Brits print.

Sometimes our government officials tell the truth and sometimes they don't. If you have a blanket philosophy of always believing them, you are a fool.

I notice your argument usually involves very deep introspective words like: retard, moron, dumbshit etc.

Look in the mirror,

 

[JimH52]

You are a retard.

Great answer! You should run for political office.

 

[Annie]

I am typing real slow for you retired. I haven't accepted shit from the terrorists. I have accepted information from some of our generals, some of our politicians and some commie newspapers that the Brits print.

Sometimes our government officials tell the truth and sometimes they don't. If you have a blanket philosophy of always believing them, you are a fool.

I notice your argument usually involves very deep introspective words like: retard, moron, dumbshit etc.

Look in the mirror,

Since you make it difficult to follow a discussion, by not including the poster you are quoting, there is no reason to include you in discussion. This is the last time I will, until or unless you choose to make it possible to follow a thread.

 

[Annie]

On the other hand:

So Al Qaeda Is Defeated, Eh? Go Tell It to the Marines | War on Iraq | AlterNet

And don't go nuts because it's AlterNet, it was in the UK Independent.

so why not include the UK site? Alternet suks.

Oh I see, it's Robert Fisk, enough said, skip the venue it's the source that suks.