Was The New Testament A Jewish Plot

[Cammmpbell]

and? the idiot o/p said "the jews" wrote the new testament. they weren't jews if they believed the messiah had come.

You are off base on that one Jillian.

There were many Jewish sects during that time.

Jews who followed the Rabbi Yeshua (Jesus) were still Jewish.

And initially followed all of the Torah Laws, kept the feasts, and went to the Temple to worship.

Even the New Testament affirms this as being true.

It wasn't until after the death of Jesus that Paul came along and created a separate religion called Christianity.

Paul didn't create Christianity or the Church. The Church was established by Jesus. He told peter in Matthew 16:18 "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hades will not overcome it." Peter means rock. Jesus was telling Peter that his faith is what the Church will be built on.

And the emperor Constantine took that little ploy to the Nth degree. Look at Rome and the Vatican. They have enough gold, silver, fine art and construction there to prove they were first with the most. It also gave them enough power to get away with phucking children.

 

[Sunni Man]

Paul didn't create Christianity or the Church. The Church was established by Jesus. He told peter in Matthew 16:18 "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hades will not overcome it." Peter means rock. Jesus was telling Peter that his faith is what the Church will be built on.

Incorrect

Jesus was building his church based on Matthew 16:16 not Matthew 16:18

Not on the headship of Peter as the Catholics believe.

Nor on Peters "faith", as the Evangelicals believe; but on the revelation of who Jesus was:

"16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah."

 

[Cammmpbell]

Paul didn't create Christianity or the Church. The Church was established by Jesus. He told peter in Matthew 16:18 "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hades will not overcome it." Peter means rock. Jesus was telling Peter that his faith is what the Church will be built on.

Incorrect

Jesus was building his church based on Matthew 16:16 not Matthew 16:18

Not on the headship of Peter as the Catholics believe.

Nor on Peters "faith", as the Evangelicals believe; but on the revelation of who Jesus was:

"16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah."

The new testament has hundreds of direct contradictions. 'Course what might one expect from a mob of stone age primitives who herded goats, rode camels and jackasses, believed in witches and thought the earth was flat.

 

[Youwerecreated]

#1) All of the known NT books were written in Greek. (no earlier copies in any other language have been found)

#2) Although writing styles are different. No one can definitely prove either way if John of the Gospels is the same person as John of the Revelations.

#3) There is zero evidence that John the Revelator was a Monk.

#4) Just because the earliest known copies of the N.T. are in Greek. Does not mean that the writers were Hellenistic Greeks. (with the possible exception of Paul who writes that he is a Roman citizen of Greek descent)

Yes there were the Coptic texts which is an Egyptian language and some were written in Aramaic.

 

[Youwerecreated]

and? the idiot o/p said "the jews" wrote the new testament. they weren't jews if they believed the messiah had come.

You are off base on that one Jillian.

There were many Jewish sects during that time.

Jews who followed the Rabbi Yeshua (Jesus) were still Jewish.

And initially followed all of the Torah Laws, kept the feasts, and went to the Temple to worship.

Even the New Testament affirms this as being true.

It wasn't until after the death of Jesus that Paul came along and created a separate religion called Christianity.

Paul didn't create Christianity or the Church. The Church was established by Jesus. He told peter in Matthew 16:18 "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hades will not overcome it." Peter means rock. Jesus was telling Peter that his faith is what the Church will be built on.

Paul played a major role in the building of the Church. All the Christians that preached about Jesus were part of that church building as well. When I say Church I mean uniting people in the name of Christ not a particular denomination.

 

[Sunni Man]

Yes there were the Coptic texts which is an Egyptian language and some were written in Aramaic.

But none of them pre date the oldest Greek copies of the N.T.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Yes there were the Coptic texts which is an Egyptian language and some were written in Aramaic.

But none of them pre date the oldest Greek copies of the N.T.

Correct,

I believe Jesus and the deciples spoke in Hebrew and the texts we are discussing were translated into Greek,and I believe the texts in Aramaic and coptic were translated from Greek But these texts are not the origional writings.

 

[Dragon]

Jesus and the Apostles spoke Aramaic, not Hebrew. Hebrew was a language of scholarship, like Latin later on in the West. Jesus was of course fluent in Hebrew but that was not the language he spoke to people in.

The nature of the religion that Jesus founded, as opposed to Paul of Tarsus, may be seen in the community of pre-Pauline Christians (or Nazarenes) in Jerusalem, which was headed by the Apostles after Jesus was crucified. They clearly saw themselves as a Jewish sect, or as the true fulfilled Judaism. Considering that the Apostles knew Jesus intimately, while Paul's early encounters with his followers mainly took the form of him trying to kill and imprison them, I think it's safe to say that the Apostles understood Jesus' original inclination rather better than Paul did.

We may see four main phases in the evolution of Christianity since the Crucifixion. First was the brief period of Jewish Christianity, in which the followers of Jesus continued to follow his teachings under the direction of the Apostles, mainly Peter and James, in a community centered in Jerusalem. This included following the Mosaic law and Jewish religious practices, as modified by Jesus' teachings.

The second phase began when Christianity became a religion of the gentiles, separate from Judaism, and Paul of Tarsus was more instrumental in that happening than any other person. His ministry started a flowering of diverse Christian practice throughout the Roman Empire, due to the fact that it was technically illegal but the prohibition of it was seldom enforced; what this meant in practice was that Christians could practice their faith without fear, but also without any government support or enforcement of orthodoxy.

The third phase, the Imperial Church, began with the Council of Nicaea. Christianity became first a legal religion, then the state religion of the Empire, then the only permitted religion, and the power of the state supported it and greatly narrowed diversity. The Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches both descend from the Imperial Church, the split between them occurring shortly after the fall of the Western Empire.

The fourth phase began with the Protestant Reformation. It has seen the shattering of the Church's political authority and its ability to suppress heresy, and thus a return to diversity and freethinking.

The books of the canonical New Testament, along with others, were mostly written during the second phase, but the choice of which texts are canonical was made in the transition to the third, and so the New Testament is an artifact of the Imperial Church. If you really want to understand the spirit of pre-Imperial Christianity, take all of those books and mix in every non-canonical Christian writing from the period you can find (the Gnostic texts, the Gospel of Thomas, non-authenticated apostolic letters, etc. -- everything), and don't make a distinction among them. Here are a couple of sources:

NonCanonical Gospels and Other Writings

Gnostic Society Library: Sources on Gnosticism and Gnosis