Was the Constitution designed to make the states strong?

[Kevin_Kennedy]

We do too. We have a form of democracy. Stop playing at or (gawd forbid) showing how stupid you are.

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." - Thomas Jefferson

"Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide." - John Adams

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

I don't think the founders thought the Republic they created was a democracy.

They knew they were creating a democratic form of government. We are not a Democracy in the narrow sense of the word, but quibbling over this is silly if all sides know we are a Republic.

gott arun

school's closing down

ltr

d.

If all sides know we are a republic why do so many refer to the U.S. as a democracy?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." - Thomas Jefferson

"Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide." - John Adams

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

I don't think the founders thought the Republic they created was a democracy.

They knew they were creating a democratic form of government. We are not a Democracy in the narrow sense of the word, but quibbling over this is silly if all sides know we are a Republic.

gott arun

school's closing down

ltr

d.

If all sides know we are a republic why do so many refer to the U.S. as a democracy?

Because there are people whio are ignorant and then there are those who are speaking in generalizations.

Stop getting all anal.

ltr

d.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

They knew they were creating a democratic form of government. We are not a Democracy in the narrow sense of the word, but quibbling over this is silly if all sides know we are a Republic.

gott arun

school's closing down

ltr

d.

If all sides know we are a republic why do so many refer to the U.S. as a democracy?

Because there are people whio are ignorant and then there are those who are speaking in generalizations.

Stop getting all anal.

ltr

d.

You implied that our democracy means that the majority can do essentially whatever it wants. Forgive me for being "anal" and correcting you.

 

[Navy1960]

James Madison quotes:
Each State, in ratifying the Constitution, is considered as a sovereign body, independent of all others, and only to be bound by its own voluntary act. In this relation, then, the new Constitution will, if established, be a FEDERAL, and not a NATIONAL constitution

I think that about sums it up, on the ture nature of a strong Federal Govt. vs. States.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If all sides know we are a republic why do so many refer to the U.S. as a democracy?

Because there are people whio are ignorant and then there are those who are speaking in generalizations.

Stop getting all anal.

ltr

d.

You implied that our democracy means that the majority can do essentially whatever it wants. Forgive me for being "anal" and correcting you.

The majority can and does do whatever it wants---within certain bounds.Stop being so anal.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Because there are people whio are ignorant and then there are those who are speaking in generalizations.

Stop getting all anal.

ltr

d.

You implied that our democracy means that the majority can do essentially whatever it wants. Forgive me for being "anal" and correcting you.

The majority can and does do whatever it wants---within certain bounds.Stop being so anal.

No, the majority does what it wants. Or the government representing the "majority" at any rate does what it wants, with hardly any bounds at all. And that's not how it's supposed to be.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You implied that our democracy means that the majority can do essentially whatever it wants. Forgive me for being "anal" and correcting you.

The majority can and does do whatever it wants---within certain bounds.Stop being so anal.

No, the majority does what it wants. Or the government representing the "majority" at any rate does what it wants, with hardly any bounds at all. And that's not how it's supposed to be.

Supposed to? Supposed to? Gawd, how awfull it must be for you to think. As I've mentioned (and show proof for) before, the founders and writers of the Constitution could not agree on what was supposed to happen after ratiication. The majority rules within the parameters of judgemnents made by the judiciary---as the Constitution lays the framework out.

The devil is always in the details.

stop being so uptight.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Kevin knows that the theoretical is fun but not going to happen. The irony is that Madison designed a federal government that morphed into a national government when Lincoln murdered the Old South. Good for the North and the West and the Nation, but bad for us southerners for owning others. We deserved, and I believe God wanted, the South to be defeated.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Kevin knows that the theoretical is fun but not going to happen. The irony is that Madison designed a federal government that morphed into a national government when Lincoln murdered the Old South. Good for the North and the West and the Nation, but bad for us southerners for owning others. We deserved, and I believe God wanted, the South to be defeated.

God wanted? So cause and effect? So then did God want slavery to start with? Make sense.

Madison himself was not totally consistent on what the Constituion meant. I've listed examplse where he and Hamilton were on both sides of an issue and then where each switched positions. Hypocrisy or nuance?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Both hypocrisy and nuance. I used God because folks like JenT and Avatar (oh, my, are they not a balanced twosome) seem to know what God wants. I was jealous, I admit it.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Kevin knows that the theoretical is fun but not going to happen. The irony is that Madison designed a federal government that morphed into a national government when Lincoln murdered the Old South. Good for the North and the West and the Nation, but bad for us southerners for owning others. We deserved, and I believe God wanted, the South to be defeated.

God wanted? So cause and effect? So then did God want slavery to start with? Make sense.

Madison himself was not totally consistent on what the Constituion meant. I've listed examplse where he and Hamilton were on both sides of an issue and then where each switched positions. Hypocrisy or nuance?

You will note, I hope, that Hamilton didn't suddenly discover implied powers of the Constitution, or much of his big government beliefs, until after the states ratified the Constitution. It's not that he was of an opposite opinion, it's just that he made things up as he went along to suit his agenda.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Both hypocrisy and nuance. I used God because folks like JenT and Avatar (oh, my, are they not a balanced twosome) seem to know what God wants. I was jealous, I admit it.

jealousy and envy go hand in hand. It is what makes the world a better place or at least a more interesting one. Without edicts against them what would most people feel guilty about?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Kevin knows that the theoretical is fun but not going to happen. The irony is that Madison designed a federal government that morphed into a national government when Lincoln murdered the Old South. Good for the North and the West and the Nation, but bad for us southerners for owning others. We deserved, and I believe God wanted, the South to be defeated.

God wanted? So cause and effect? So then did God want slavery to start with? Make sense.

Madison himself was not totally consistent on what the Constituion meant. I've listed examplse where he and Hamilton were on both sides of an issue and then where each switched positions. Hypocrisy or nuance?

You will note, I hope, that Hamilton didn't suddenly discover implied powers of the Constitution, or much of his big government beliefs, until after the states ratified the Constitution. It's not that he was of an opposite opinion, it's just that he made things up as he went along to suit his agenda.

...as we all do from time to time when maneuvering uncharted waters. But unlike Madison, we are left with charted waters when it comes to interpretations of the Constitution.

 

[Charles Stucker]

I think the founders iived in an agrarian society... their goal was to protect landed gentry...

I think they didn't even conceptualize companies... and the societal problems that arose after the industrial revolution weren't on their radar.

and if the states were intended to be strong, there wouldn't have been a move to the constitution and away from the articles of confederation...

A couple of points
Industry was already a strong force in both England and some areas of New England. Thomas Jefferson purchased Louisiana because he saw the extra territory as extending the influence of yeoman farmers. He worried about big businessmen unduly influencing their employees, while the independent farmer was supposedly immune to such control.

States were intended to be stronger than they are now; the Civil war set the stage for ever stronger federal government. The Articles of Confederation failed because they left too much room for bickering and any decision required unanimity. The Bill of Rights was required by the states and people as a means to insure the Constitution did not deprive them of their liberties.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

We don't have a democracy.

But we do have a Constitutional Republic. Or is it now just a Bannana republic since we have people like DevNell and Obama that like to throw the constitution out the winodw.

We have a democratic form of government. Of course it is a republic. But just because we temper what the majority can do...

Talk about

You admit you were wrong and that we do indeed live in a constitutional republic then call me crazy.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

But we do have a Constitutional Republic. Or is it now just a Bannana republic since we have people like DevNell and Obama that like to throw the constitution out the winodw.

We have a democratic form of government. Of course it is a republic. But just because we temper what the majority can do...

Talk about

You admit you were wrong and that we do indeed live in a constitutional republic then call me crazy.

You are quibbling and playing with definitions of: democratic/democracy.

you are the mirror image of an old poster named quest. she like you was awfully good at circle jerks.


Generalized meanings vs exact meanings is one area where you play a gotcha game. If you were to be intellectually honest and stop pretending to be more educated and intelligent than your posts reveal you to actually be, you'd ask most people up front to agree ahead of time on what exactly you are arguing over (definitions) before you begin your arguments. If you did this you would be left without anything to do excpet maybe pull your own prick in solitude.