Was Hitler more right-wing or more left-wing?

[CrusaderFrank]

Left Wing means government control
Right Wing means individual freedom

Therefore Hitler was a Left winger

 

[asterism]

Let's speak on the lingua franca of political science instead of partisan jibberish, shall we?

Hitler was an authoritarian socialist, in league with capitalist industrialists.

That's fascism, or as, the leader of the modern Fascist party, Benito Mussolino, liked to call it, it's Corporatism.

Why didn't you offer us a corporate wing, Mani?

True. However Corporatism isn't what most anti-corporate folks think it is.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."
Benito Mussolini

Who'd know better than the expert, Mussolini.

I agree, but that's different than protesting Boeing because it wants to build a plant in South Carolina or saying the CEO of Lockheed makes too much.

 

[Cammmpbell]

My first three months on the board, that is all I discussed.

Most conservatives who have read "Road to Serfdom" would unequivocally say left wing. He used socialist arguments, was anti religion, vegetarian, and believed in enforced egalitarianism. The Horst Wessel story was an important part of National socialist ideology, the rich guy who discovers that the morals of the volk are higher than those of the rich and lives as an ordinary person and distributes his wealth.

The Road to serfdom chronicles the progression of social democratic thought, and where it leads to National Socialism.

When it comes to the right wing, there is very little there.

Hitler was a propaganda specialist who burned any book he did not like and killed six million Jews in the name of Christianity. Sounds to me like a typical politician with two wings.

 

[asterism]

While some of you who actually are scholarly enough to have read " The Road to Fascism" read that book, I think that perhaps many of you FAILED TO NOTICE that von Hayek also noted that he was not going to discuss how CAPTIALISM could also lead to serfdom?

Do any of you even remember reading that? (wouldn't be surprise if you didn't since he really only mentioned that limitation of this poli-sci paper a few times and only IN PASSING)

FWIW, TRTS, was a good read and one that often found myself in complete agreement with.

von Hayek did a great job of explaining how socialism inevitably leads to authoritarianism.

And since he flat out told the readers that he was not going to ever touch the problems that a flawed capitalist system could lead to, I can credit him with being HONEST enough to at least ACKNOWLEDGE the limitations of his this bit of political science scholarship.

Apparently the thing some of you don't understand (or just refuse to acknowledge) is that there are many roads leading to SERFDOM.

One of the roads to serfdom is certainly socialism, like for example the SOVIET DISTOPIA.

And another road to SERFDOM is obviously corporatism, like for example, in Hitlerian Germany.

Both socialism and corporatism are essentally the same kind of government..brutal, authoritarian oligarchies controlled by a select elite FOR that select group of elites sole benefit.

Here's what I think many don't realize:

EVERY FORM OF GOVERNMENT leads to serfdom if the PEOPLE allow it!


Now why is that?


Because all governments seek to gain social/economic power, and once they have that power they are never ever every going to willingly give it up

That's very true, and we can see evidence of that in both sides of the mainstream political agenda. So why is more government involvement in the economy preferred by left of center people? I can understand it from the evangelical right, they are currently in an authoritarian cycle. They also are not necessarily against puritan social structures as long as their ox isn't gored. I cannot understand the left of center anti-authoritarian person that continuously advocates authoritarian policies.

Got any ideas?

 

[edthecynic]

My first three months on the board, that is all I discussed.

Most conservatives who have read "Road to Serfdom" would unequivocally say left wing. He used socialist arguments, was anti religion, vegetarian, and believed in enforced egalitarianism. The Horst Wessel story was an important part of National socialist ideology, the rich guy who discovers that the morals of the volk are higher than those of the rich and lives as an ordinary person and distributes his wealth.

The Road to serfdom chronicles the progression of social democratic thought, and where it leads to National Socialism.

When it comes to the right wing, there is very little there.

He was a devout Catholic, and everybody knows just how anti religion Catholicism is.
And you just can't get any more Left-Wing Socialistic than a VEGETARIAN!!!
CON$ are the most gullible people on Earth!

He was an atheist, not a catholic.

You gotta just love how CON$ just make crap up!

“We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933

 

[edthecynic]

All you got to do is look at which party now a days supports less government and which one supports more government control in our lives, and there you will have your answer.

Neither Party SUPPORTS less government. One Party lies about supporting less government, but always grows the government when in power.

 

[edthecynic]

Left Wing means government control
Right Wing means individual freedom

Therefore Hitler was a Left winger

Typical revisionist bullshit!

Anarchy, the absence of government, has always been the domain of the Left and total government the realm of the Right. Who ever heard of a Right Wing Anarchist?

The Founding Fathers were just to the Right of the far Left. They believed in a constitutionally limited government, a Republic.

 

[editec]

While some of you who actually are scholarly enough to have read " The Road to Fascism" read that book, I think that perhaps many of you FAILED TO NOTICE that von Hayek also noted that he was not going to discuss how CAPTIALISM could also lead to serfdom?

Do any of you even remember reading that? (wouldn't be surprise if you didn't since he really only mentioned that limitation of this poli-sci paper a few times and only IN PASSING)

FWIW, TRTS, was a good read and one that often found myself in complete agreement with.

von Hayek did a great job of explaining how socialism inevitably leads to authoritarianism.

And since he flat out told the readers that he was not going to ever touch the problems that a flawed capitalist system could lead to, I can credit him with being HONEST enough to at least ACKNOWLEDGE the limitations of his this bit of political science scholarship.

Apparently the thing some of you don't understand (or just refuse to acknowledge) is that there are many roads leading to SERFDOM.

One of the roads to serfdom is certainly socialism, like for example the SOVIET DISTOPIA.

And another road to SERFDOM is obviously corporatism, like for example, in Hitlerian Germany.

Both socialism and corporatism are essentally the same kind of government..brutal, authoritarian oligarchies controlled by a select elite FOR that select group of elites sole benefit.

Here's what I think many don't realize:

EVERY FORM OF GOVERNMENT leads to serfdom if the PEOPLE allow it!


Now why is that?


Because all governments seek to gain social/economic power, and once they have that power they are never ever every going to willingly give it up

That's very true, and we can see evidence of that in both sides of the mainstream political agenda. So why is more government involvement in the economy preferred by left of center people?

Because the current economic disaster was the result of an economic system that is NOT REMOTELY a level playing field.

Don't you realize that 90% of the banks in this nation were ALSO screwed?

Do you really imagine that the game capitalism need NO referees?

Apparently you do.

Well you're wrong.

EVen the dark prince of the FED (Greenspan) acknowledged that this meltdown was directly the result of DEREGULATION, that his RANDIAN fantasies about deregulation and the sensibility of a deregulated free market capitalism were just that...fantasies.

I can understand it from the evangelical right, they are currently in an authoritarian cycle. They also are not necessarily against puritan social structures as long as their ox isn't gored. I cannot understand the left of center anti-authoritarian person that continuously advocates authoritarian policies.

Got any ideas?

Banking regulation is NOT authoritarianism, UNLESS we allow it to become so.

You see this is the problem with governments generally.

It isn't government that is the problem, its BAD government that's the problem.

I wish that more conservatives understood that as it realted to the ELITE.

Certainly they understand that well enough when it comes to the little people.

But somehow they imagine that if somebopdy is rich and powerful?

They cannot be criminal?!

How the hell does anybody come up with that POV?

 

[Sallow]

All you got to do is look at which party now a days supports less government and which one supports more government control in our lives, and there you will have your answer.

Neither Party SUPPORTS less government. One Party lies about supporting less government, but always grows the government when in power.

What's funny about the party that brays on and on about "less" government is that they support:

-Giving tax breaks and subsidies to large corporations.
-Growing the military.
-Attacking other countries pre-emptively.
-Want to control the bodies of women.
-Want to have a say in who you can marry.
-Want to spy on each and every citizen. So much for indivdual liberty.
-Want to increase prison populations and build more prisons.
-Want to abridge freedom of speech.
-Curtail lawyer client priviledge.
-Curtail doctor client priviledge.
-Curtail or remove the rights of people that are arrested.
-Growing the police state by the introduction of electronic surveillance.

So when they say "limited" government they should be saying "limit your liberties" government.

 

[L.K.Eder]

left wing means full beard (see marx)

right wing means clean shaven (see ronald reagan)

hitler was clean shaven but missed a spot under his nose.

clearly hitler was right wing (the spot under the nose shows hitler's left wing side: i.e. the autobahn)

 

[paulitician]

Hitler and the Nazis were oppressive Big Government thugs. And it's very sad watching our own Government moving in that same direction. Less Government control by way of true Conservatism is the only way we can hold off this rapidly approaching Nanny State/Police State. Socialism/Progressivism/Communism will always lead to Dictatorship/Totalitarianism. So Americans will have to decide which direction they want to go in. I hope they make the right decision.

 

[Londoner]

This notion that Hitler wasn't religious - and that Nazism did not depend on religious ideology - is a half truth.

European anti-semitism trades heavily on the label of Jews as Christ-killers. Nazism leveraged this to pull ordinary Germans into the cause of isolating and alienating Jews.

Religion was vital to the Nazi consolidation of power because it provided a context for calling Jews evil - and it allowed Hitler to claim he was protecting Germany and the world from an evil contagion. This is a very old political tool. Think of Bush's messianic nationalism, specially his ultra-patriotic rhetoric combined with the notion saving the "fallen" middle east with the American model. Research Bush's constant reference to evil doers

[talk about socialism, i.e., imposing one model on the world. Wow]

Please recall how Bush described those who opposed his policy as "anti-American" or "siding w/the terrorists". Only fascism claims that citizens are evil for disagreeing with Dear Leader.

Tragically, the Right is coming back to full power in 2012. They will once again create a "good versus evil" war for civilization, ripe with subtle Christian overtones of saving the world from the barbarian (evil) hordes. Worse: anybody who opposes Dear Leader will be accused of hating America. God help us. They're coming back. And like Nazi Germany, they will bring with them their list of scapegoats who are destroying the Real America, from illegals to baby killing liberals and "the gay agenda".

God help us. They are coming back.

Borders Language Culture! They are going to save the Real America from the evil contagion. God help us. Add some desperation - like Weimar - and there is no telling how far their scapegoating will go.

 

[paulitician]

This notion that Hitler wasn't religious - and that Nazism did not depend on religious ideology - is a half truth.

European anti-semitism trades heavily on the label of Jews as Christ-killers. Nazism leveraged this to pull ordinary Germans into the cause of isolating and alienating Jews.

Religion was vital to the Nazi consolidation of power because it provided a context for calling Jews evil - and it allowed Hitler to claim he was protecting Germany and the world from an evil conyagion. This is a very old political tool. Think of Bush's messianic nationalism, specially his ultra-patriotic rhetoric combined with the notion saving the "fallen" middle east with the American model. Research Bush's constant reference to evil doers and "saving the world" with the American market system. Please recall how he described those who opposed his policy as "anti-American" or "siding w/the terrorists". Only fascism claims that citizens are evil for disagreeing with Dear Leader.

Tragically, the Right is coming back to full power in 2012. They will once again create a "good versus evil" war for civilization, ripe with subtke Christian overtones of saving the world from the barbarian (evil) hordes. Worse: anybody who opposes Dear Leader will be accused of hating America. God help us. They're coming back. And like Nazi Germany, they will bring with them their list of scapegoats who are destroying the Real America, from illegals to baby killing liberals and "the gay agenda".

God help us. They are coming back.

Borders Language Culture! They are going to save the Real America from the evil contagion. God help us. Add some desperation - like Weimar - and there is no telling how far their scapegoating will go.

lol! Sounds like wishful thinking on your part. And actually,it's the Left who are spewing all the Anti-Jew hate these days. Maybe you're just behind the times? Try and catch up. Ugly Anti-Semitism is all you guys these days. And the Nazis really were oppressive Big Government thugs. Unfortunately my own nation is moving in that direction. And it's the Socialists/Progressives who are leading the charge. I hope we can reverse this trend though. I guess we'll see.