warning : discussion of race in America, likely to be unpleasant

[digger]

Racism in America. Everyone says it's there. But not very many people will fess up to it. There was that couple in Alabama that picked me up hitch hiking. They were not ashamed of being racist. I asked them why they were racist. They said hey, Black people are just stupid and lazy. What about Miles Davis? They gave me Miles Davis.

But that's not most racism in America. Most people who consider themselves racists don't talk about it publicly, because they know it's not acceptable, except I guess in Alabama. I think that most racists today don't even consider themselves racist. And yet racism continues.

There is something in America that persistently disadvantages Black people. It happens all the time and everywhere, in thousands of ways, big and small. I would be interested to hear someone who is perceived as Black speak to this.

Color blindness seems to be popular nowadays. Just don't talk about race. I don't see very many Black people taking this view. It seems to be a comfortable thing for the privileged to think. And I don't agree. To be color blind is to deny that people who are perceived differently have had different experiences. It's a different country if you're Black. A much worse place to live.

I think that those who benefit from racism, and do nothing to dismantle it, are participating. They may not consider themselves racist. They may not even look at Black people differently from White people. But they are complacent. It's like buying a used bicycle for 20 bucks when it's worth 2000. You may not have stolen it. But if you're honest with yourself, you know that someone else did, and you're participating in the crime.

 

[bucs90]

Could you say that sometimes they are acting like "typical black people"?

Oh, no, thats just the racist President we have who discussed "typical white people".

Could you say that sometimes we just "Forget" they are black? Oh, thats the racist left winger Chris Matthews.

Or could you say that they would be better off with a "Wise Latina woman's" outlook rather than a white persons......no.....thats just our racist Supreme Court justice Sonya Sotomayor.

One day left wingers will quit being racist.

 

[digger]

Please bring your partisan bickering to another thread. You didn't even respond to any of my points. I'm not even sure you read my post. You just started bitching about people you don't like. Kinda lame.

 

[auditor0007]

Racism in America. Everyone says it's there. But not very many people will fess up to it. There was that couple in Alabama that picked me up hitch hiking. They were not ashamed of being racist. I asked them why they were racist. They said hey, Black people are just stupid and lazy. What about Miles Davis? They gave me Miles Davis.

But that's not most racism in America. Most people who consider themselves racists don't talk about it publicly, because they know it's not acceptable, except I guess in Alabama. I think that most racists today don't even consider themselves racist. And yet racism continues.

There is something in America that persistently disadvantages Black people. It happens all the time and everywhere, in thousands of ways, big and small. I would be interested to hear someone who is perceived as Black speak to this.

Color blindness seems to be popular nowadays. Just don't talk about race. I don't see very many Black people taking this view. It seems to be a comfortable thing for the privileged to think. And I don't agree. To be color blind is to deny that people who are perceived differently have had different experiences. It's a different country if you're Black. A much worse place to live.

I think that those who benefit from racism, and do nothing to dismantle it, are participating. They may not consider themselves racist. They may not even look at Black people differently from White people. But they are complacent. It's like buying a used bicycle for 20 bucks when it's worth 2000. You may not have stolen it. But if you're honest with yourself, you know that someone else did, and you're participating in the crime.

There is a big problem with Black society, and an awful lot of us see it everyday. While there are a good percentage of people who are racist, I think you will find that there is a much bigger percentage of whites who I would call prejudiced. Some will say there is no difference, but there is a great difference. Those who are racist believe that Blacks are inferior and shouldn't be treated equally because they are not equal, and they are not capable of being equal to anyone else. Those who are prejudiced usually base their prejudice on the actions taken by those in Black society. When you go to work and see five Black employees who never put in a full day's work while everyone else does, it creates negative feelings. I'll put myself in that group. And yes there are exeptions; not all Blacks are lazy.

The bottom line is this; as a society, we have done many things to try to help advance Blacks by giving them all types of breaks. While a few have taken advantage of those breaks to better themselves, most just abuse those breaks and waste them away. Until there is a wholehearted change, nothing will ever change. Whites, and most others will continue to have prejudiced or racist attitudes toward Blacks.

As an example, Bill Cosby has made clear how Black America has wasted away educational opportunities over the years. It's time for Black America to step up and improve themselves instead of constantly blaming their situation on White America.

Bill Cosby speaks bluntly about black people and education - National Education | Examiner.com

 

[bucs90]

Please bring your partisan bickering to another thread. You didn't even respond to any of my points. I'm not even sure you read my post. You just started bitching about people you don't like. Kinda lame.

I read it. And that was my response. The most visible racist in America is our president. When he displays such an example, how can you expect the peasants and unknowns to act differently? Obama's agenda and ideals are more race-based than any US president in the last 100 years, since FDR anyway.

So until we get leadership from Obama and Holder, don't expect racism to disappear. Those two are the worst of the worst.

 

[Douger]

Racism in America. Everyone says it's there. But not very many people will fess up to it. There was that couple in Alabama that picked me up hitch hiking. They were not ashamed of being racist. I asked them why they were racist. They said hey, Black people are just stupid and lazy. What about Miles Davis? They gave me Miles Davis.

But that's not most racism in America. Most people who consider themselves racists don't talk about it publicly, because they know it's not acceptable, except I guess in Alabama. I think that most racists today don't even consider themselves racist. And yet racism continues.

There is something in America that persistently disadvantages Black people. It happens all the time and everywhere, in thousands of ways, big and small. I would be interested to hear someone who is perceived as Black speak to this.

Color blindness seems to be popular nowadays. Just don't talk about race. I don't see very many Black people taking this view. It seems to be a comfortable thing for the privileged to think. And I don't agree. To be color blind is to deny that people who are perceived differently have had different experiences. It's a different country if you're Black. A much worse place to live.

I think that those who benefit from racism, and do nothing to dismantle it, are participating. They may not consider themselves racist. They may not even look at Black people differently from White people. But they are complacent. It's like buying a used bicycle for 20 bucks when it's worth 2000. You may not have stolen it. But if you're honest with yourself, you know that someone else did, and you're participating in the crime.

There is a big problem with Black society, and an awful lot of us see it everyday. While there are a good percentage of people who are racist, I think you will find that there is a much bigger percentage of whites who I would call prejudiced. Some will say there is no difference, but there is a great difference. Those who are racist believe that Blacks are inferior and shouldn't be treated equally because they are not equal, and they are not capable of being equal to anyone else. Those who are prejudiced usually base their prejudice on the actions taken by those in Black society. When you go to work and see five Black employees who never put in a full day's work while everyone else does, it creates negative feelings. I'll put myself in that group. And yes there are exeptions; not all Blacks are lazy.

The bottom line is this; as a society, we have done many things to try to help advance Blacks by giving them all types of breaks. While a few have taken advantage of those breaks to better themselves, most just abuse those breaks and waste them away. Until there is a wholehearted change, nothing will ever change. Whites, and most others will continue to have prejudiced or racist attitudes toward Blacks.

As an example, Bill Cosby has made clear how Black America has wasted away educational opportunities over the years. It's time for Black America to step up and improve themselves instead of constantly blaming their situation on White America.

Bill Cosby speaks bluntly about black people and education - National Education | Examiner.com

Cosby is a fucking wuss.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzFTLKWvfE0]YouTube - Chris Rock-Niggas Vs. Black People Pt 1[/ame]

 

[digger]

There is a big problem with Black society, and an awful lot of us see it everyday. While there are a good percentage of people who are racist, I think you will find that there is a much bigger percentage of whites who I would call prejudiced. Some will say there is no difference, but there is a great difference. Those who are racist believe that Blacks are inferior and shouldn't be treated equally because they are not equal, and they are not capable of being equal to anyone else. Those who are prejudiced usually base their prejudice on the actions taken by those in Black society. When you go to work and see five Black employees who never put in a full day's work while everyone else does, it creates negative feelings. I'll put myself in that group. And yes there are exeptions; not all Blacks are lazy.

The bottom line is this; as a society, we have done many things to try to help advance Blacks by giving them all types of breaks. While a few have taken advantage of those breaks to better themselves, most just abuse those breaks and waste them away. Until there is a wholehearted change, nothing will ever change. Whites, and most others will continue to have prejudiced or racist attitudes toward Blacks.

As an example, Bill Cosby has made clear how Black America has wasted away educational opportunities over the years. It's time for Black America to step up and improve themselves instead of constantly blaming their situation on White America.

Bill Cosby speaks bluntly about black people and education - National Education | Examiner.com

That's an interesting point, the distinction between racism and prejudice. I'm not sure if you're using the right words. But there is a distinction there that's good to make, and I'll go with your words since I'm talking to you.

But I'm not comfortable with blaming Black people for prejudice. I mean sure, if more of them worked harder, some people would perceive them as harder working. But only some. I'm not familiar with any statistics on how productive Black people are compared to White people, and I'm not willing to take your anecdotal evidence.

Basically what you're saying is that people think they're lazy because they're lazy. But wasn't that one of the charges from the start, when they were slaves? Isn't that part of the whole racial caricature? So if all of your evidence for that is anecdotal, than think about the fact that anecdotes are subjective. You form your memories based on what you already believe. Perhaps you were preconditioned to perceive Black people as lazy?

I'm familiar with Cosby's perspective. I know that a lot of Black people are upset with him for holding that view. That doesn't make him wrong, of course. But I think maybe you're misrepresenting it. Cosby is saying that Black people have to do what they can about better their own lot, instead of just complaining about it. But that doesn't free us of our obligation to do what we can, from the part of the privileged, to end racism.

As a society, we've done some things to help Black people. But as a society, we've done a whole lot more to hurt them. And we continue to do that today. Do you agree?

Oh, and I'll ignore Bucs if you do. We might actually get away with having a mature conversation.

 

[bucs90]

I strongly disagree that we still do things to "hurt them". Our society offers equal opportunity, in fact, it's often pushed harder in favor of minorities over whites in many areas. We've become fanatical in some places about the necessity for diversity in race, even to the point of lowering quality. Hell, Eric Holder is trying to force police departments to lower application standards just so more blacks will pass and become cops. Thats sad. Lowering public safety standards just so there is a better ratio of blacks wearing the badge as other races.

It's a fact that more blacks than whites are in poverty. But aside from just outright handing them massive cash loads to equal it out, what do you propose? We aren't "treating" them bad. They and us just all live in the reality of what is.

 

[digger]

In this interview he talks about both. Systemic racism plus problems in Black culture.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhZve73KQpQ&feature=related]YouTube - Bill Cosby on Meet The Press 01[/ame]

 

[Grace]

I don't consider myself racist, but I do consider myself judgemental. Or prejudiced I guess could fit in some ways. Depends on the situation.
I was semi in love with a black man years ago. But, he was married and so was I. He didn't cheat, and neither did I. So, that kind of left us both in a bad place. He moved to detroit and his wife passed away. I was divorced but here in California. Many years had passed by then. He moved on with his life, as I did mine. So no. I am not racist.
Seeing vids of black women act like lowlifes in a McD's? Or how they talk? "I called the POH leese" or "I axed my fren" or "Ma went off in da amboo lance" or "come to my betroom" and "ho" and "nigguh" and other terms (enbonics) make me shudder. Am I judgemental? Yes. Is it racist? I don't honestly know.

I think racism is rampant and it is on both sides. Black this, black that...but the same is not allowed for white this or white that. I'm tired of being blamed for something I didn't do. Slavery was before my time. I have never been bigoted in how I treat anyone, regardless of their skin color but I have been treated poorly by blacks if I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Honky, cracker, whitey. Do I hold that against ALL blacks? No. I want equality for all.
So what am I?

 

[Grace]

And Bill Cosby? He is right on the mark.

 

[digger]

We all already know what you think, Bucs. You are a caricature of your political beliefs. Please go away and let those who are capable of changing their minds and improving their understanding talk to each other.

 

[Grace]

I have no political beliefs. So again..what am I?

 

[bucs90]

We all already know what you think, Bucs. You are a caricature of your political beliefs. Please go away and let those who are capable of changing their minds and improving their understanding talk to each other.

So in other words....all those who are firm in their beliefs please leave? Only those who are not firm in their beliefs need stick around? I won't go away.

 

[bucs90]

I don't consider myself racist, but I do consider myself judgemental. Or prejudiced I guess could fit in some ways. Depends on the situation.
I was semi in love with a black man years ago. But, he was married and so was I. He didn't cheat, and neither did I. So, that kind of left us both in a bad place. He moved to detroit and his wife passed away. I was divorced but here in California. Many years had passed by then. He moved on with his life, as I did mine. So no. I am not racist.
Seeing vids of black women act like lowlifes in a McD's? Or how they talk? "I called the POH leese" or "I axed my fren" or "Ma went off in da amboo lance" or "come to my betroom" and "ho" and "nigguh" and other terms (enbonics) make me shudder. Am I judgemental? Yes. Is it racist? I don't honestly know.

I think racism is rampant and it is on both sides. Black this, black that...but the same is not allowed for white this or white that. I'm tired of being blamed for something I didn't do. Slavery was before my time. I have never been bigoted in how I treat anyone, regardless of their skin color but I have been treated poorly by blacks if I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Honky, cracker, whitey. Do I hold that against ALL blacks? No. I want equality for all.
So what am I?

Being judgemental is NOT the same as being racist. Some people expect us to look at someone who is different from us and deny that, and think "OH, no, we are exactly alike in all ways". And thats not true. Hispanic culture, black culture, asian culture, euro-white culture, southern-white culture, etc, etc, etc, are all different. We are all individuals, but we are all raised in some sort of local culture.

I'm different than a black guy raised in South Central. Or a Mexican. Or an Asian from China. IMO, it's WORSE to deny that and try to pretend we are all exactly alike. We aren't. Obama even said "typical white person". And know what? He's right. Most whites would avoid a rap-culture-looking black guy on the street. It's reality. Not racism.

 

[Grace]

I guess you must be open to change your mind about what the OP wants? I don't get the question, myself. Do I question myself on whether I am a closet racist? Sometimes. But its a slippery slope. Do I avoid a group of black guys or girls hanging out on a dark street and I have to pass them? yes. Does that make me racist? I think it makes me aware of my surroundings, myself.
Racism is in the eye of the beholder, sorta thing.

 

[digger]

You seem like a reasonable human being, Grace. A rarity in this world. *sigh*

So, given that there are problems in Black culture. There's not really much that you or I could do about it. Do you agree that there is also systemic racism in our society today? If so, do you think it is your responsibility to do something about it?

 

[digger]

Open to changing your mind. That's the basis of any adult debate. It's not worthwhile arguing with someone who's closed minded. You're not going to hear well reasoned arguments that might change your mind. And you're not going to change their mind. What's the point?

 

[bucs90]

When a race portrays itself with an image, others will view the whole as that way. The rap culture is destroying the image of the black race. It glorifies guns, crime, violence, degrading women. The people involved in the rap culture, and the millions of kids who mimic it, try to put forth an image of a short temper, willingness to commit crime, carry weapons and drugs, etc, etc, whether it's all an act or not, they portray it.

Until the black race comes out in whole against that culture, it's gonna keep hurting them. YouTube videos of them acting like absolute scum in public dont help.

 

[bucs90]

Open to changing your mind. That's the basis of any adult debate. It's not worthwhile arguing with someone who's closed minded. You're not going to hear well reasoned arguments that might change your mind. And you're not going to change their mind. What's the point?

I'm not closed minded. I'm just right on this. Thats like saying I should be open minded to eating anthrax. No. It's bad.

After enough life experience, you begin to realize some things. I know this. Racism as we once knew it is dead. Racism as a spectator sport is alive and well. No one is held back by OTHERs because of their race anymore. Individuals held back because of race are done in by their OWN belief that their race is a factor.