Warm Good-Cold Bad part II

[konradv]

There's always been dengue in Key West. All this nonsense about us getting tropical mosquito borne diseases in the U.S. because of some marginal increase in temperature is total bullshit. We've already had them. The U.S. came with malaria and most of the other mosquito borne diseases. We sprayed some crap out and treated people for the diseases and bingo! All gone! It's easy for them to be persistent in these tropical places because everyone lives in a hut and when they get malaria the go sit on their porch where a mosquito bites them and then gives it to their neighbor 20 feet away instead of being treated for it and staying inside like we would do here.

We've already had some. What makes it total BS? What of other tropical dieseases? Like westy, you're taking a small sample and calling it typical. We haven't really seen tropical diseases in temperate climes. The examples given so far are merely exceptions to the rule. What I'm talking about hasn't happened yet, but could, given rising temps.

 

[Neal Asbury]

The entire planet will never be a comfortable 75 degrees.

 

[Screaming Eagle]

There's always been dengue in Key West. All this nonsense about us getting tropical mosquito borne diseases in the U.S. because of some marginal increase in temperature is total bullshit. We've already had them. The U.S. came with malaria and most of the other mosquito borne diseases. We sprayed some crap out and treated people for the diseases and bingo! All gone! It's easy for them to be persistent in these tropical places because everyone lives in a hut and when they get malaria the go sit on their porch where a mosquito bites them and then gives it to their neighbor 20 feet away instead of being treated for it and staying inside like we would do here.

We've already had some. What makes it total BS? What of other tropical dieseases? Like westy, you're taking a small sample and calling it typical. We haven't really seen tropical diseases in temperate climes. The examples given so far are merely exceptions to the rule. What I'm talking about hasn't happened yet, but could, given rising temps.

What is a small sample about what I wrote?

 

[konradv]

There's always been dengue in Key West. All this nonsense about us getting tropical mosquito borne diseases in the U.S. because of some marginal increase in temperature is total bullshit. We've already had them. The U.S. came with malaria and most of the other mosquito borne diseases. We sprayed some crap out and treated people for the diseases and bingo! All gone! It's easy for them to be persistent in these tropical places because everyone lives in a hut and when they get malaria the go sit on their porch where a mosquito bites them and then gives it to their neighbor 20 feet away instead of being treated for it and staying inside like we would do here.

We've already had some. What makes it total BS? What of other tropical dieseases? Like westy, you're taking a small sample and calling it typical. We haven't really seen tropical diseases in temperate climes. The examples given so far are merely exceptions to the rule. What I'm talking about hasn't happened yet, but could, given rising temps.

What is a small sample about what I wrote?

You mention malaria and other mosquito diseases. Kind of sketchy. What about all the other tropical diseases? What of those that aren't mosquito borne? You can't expect to tell us an anecdote about one small part of the problem and have us accept it as gospel, covering a wide range of diseases. We're not all "dittoheads" here, believing whatever O'Limbeck tells us to!!!

 

[westwall]

We've already had some. What makes it total BS? What of other tropical dieseases? Like westy, you're taking a small sample and calling it typical. We haven't really seen tropical diseases in temperate climes. The examples given so far are merely exceptions to the rule. What I'm talking about hasn't happened yet, but could, given rising temps.

What is a small sample about what I wrote?

You mention malaria and other mosquito diseases. Kind of sketchy. What about all the other tropical diseases? What of those that aren't mosquito borne? You can't expect to tell us an anecdote about one small part of the problem and have us accept it as gospel, covering a wide range of diseases. We're not all "dittoheads" here, believing whatever O'Limbeck tells us to!!!

Name any tropical disease and tell us how it is going to migrate from the tropics to wherever you wish it to go. Because the areas where the disease has never been get warmer is the disease going to teleport to where it is warm?

Alarmist love to tell us that as the planet gets warmer there is going to be more disease but there is zero evidence for that. The only mechanism for the transportation of disease is man and his transportation devices. Namely ships and aircraft.

The temperature is not relevant.

 

[Screaming Eagle]

We've already had some. What makes it total BS? What of other tropical dieseases? Like westy, you're taking a small sample and calling it typical. We haven't really seen tropical diseases in temperate climes. The examples given so far are merely exceptions to the rule. What I'm talking about hasn't happened yet, but could, given rising temps.

What is a small sample about what I wrote?

You mention malaria and other mosquito diseases. Kind of sketchy. What about all the other tropical diseases? What of those that aren't mosquito borne? You can't expect to tell us an anecdote about one small part of the problem and have us accept it as gospel, covering a wide range of diseases. We're not all "dittoheads" here, believing whatever O'Limbeck tells us to!!!

Mosquito borne diseases are not a small segment of all tropical diseases, they are the bulk of them. I have no knowledge of what O'Limbeck has to say on this matter, so if you would be so kind to fill me in, his opinion is welcome!

The whole concept that if temperatures in the U.S. go up a few degrees then suddenly we'll have an equatorial climate pattern year round is so profoundly absurd that there really isn't any response I can make to it other than just laugh.

 

[konradv]

What is a small sample about what I wrote?

You mention malaria and other mosquito diseases. Kind of sketchy. What about all the other tropical diseases? What of those that aren't mosquito borne? You can't expect to tell us an anecdote about one small part of the problem and have us accept it as gospel, covering a wide range of diseases. We're not all "dittoheads" here, believing whatever O'Limbeck tells us to!!!

Mosquito borne diseases are not a small segment of all tropical diseases, they are the bulk of them. I have no knowledge of what O'Limbeck has to say on this matter, so if you would be so kind to fill me in, his opinion is welcome!

The whole concept that if temperatures in the U.S. go up a few degrees then suddenly we'll have an equatorial climate pattern year round is so profoundly absurd that there really isn't any response I can make to it other than just laugh.

It's still an anecdote and I don't know about "suddenly", scientists usually talk about years, decades and centuries. 'Suddenly' is an unscientific word used by the deniers to ridicule or so they don't have to be tied to a definite time period, themselves. It's stuff like that that makes me discount what you're saying. AGW isn't profoundly absurd, what's profoundly absurd is to think so. You demand evidence oif the "warmists", but expect us to to go with your "feelings". That's not how it works.

 

[AquaAthena]

Just wanted to add a little more information to the warm vs cold debate and how the Chris's konrads and old frauds of the world think that cold is so much better than what we have.

While Chris has been bleating about the warmth across Russia and the ensuing wildfires (caused by an excess of fuel brought on by the severe winter that preceeded the current fire season) and the temps across the eastern US, he has been studiously ignoring those areas where it is colder than normal.

In the southwest it has been far colder than normal. And in South America the winter has been truly epic.

Snow in Brazil, below zero Celsius in the River Plate and tropical fish frozen — MercoPress

But that is not the point I want to make here. Warmth for the most part is far preferable to cold. The months of December January, and February see 800 more people die per day than the entire rest of the year. That's correct 72,000 more Americans die in winter than all the rest of the year.

The three months with the lowest mortality? June, July, and August.

I have linked the paper by Indur Goklany and just to save old fraud the time I also have linked the sourcewatch hit piece on the good Doctor. Seems they don't have much other than he's apparently a sceptic. However he also worked for the Dept. of the Interior so his source material is pretty solid.

http://www.csccc.info/reports/report_23.pdf

Indur Goklany - SourceWatch

The average temperature in July was 79 degrees, five degrees below normal, and the first eight days of this month also have been five to six degrees below normal, weather experts said.

More: Temperatures continue well below average in Southern California - Whittier Daily News

 

[konradv]

It's not just a question of warm vs cold, really. It's a matter of whether we're effecting the balance. To say that warm is better and we don't have to worry, is to ignore the Law of Unintended Consequences.

 

[westwall]

It's not just a question of warm vs cold, really. It's a matter of whether we're effecting the balance. To say that warm is better and we don't have to worry, is to ignore the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Ahhh but the alarmists ignore everything now don't they?

A little question for you here konrad.

Overwhelming evidence shows that CO2 levels rise approximately 800 years after the warming has begun. This is borne out in every ice core that has been sampled to the best of my knowledge. Do you agree?

Now if you agree with that simple premise. How long ago was the Medieval Warming Period? Approximately 800 years ago to save you some calculations.

So, if all the evidence that I have just presented is in fact correct, and pretty much all sides agree that the formentioned is in fact true. Is it not likely then that the current CO2 rise is mostly an artifice of the MWP?

And if that is true (which I think many scientists are starting to pay more attention to) it really isn't the gasses after all. It is yet another example of mother nature and how she operates. Isn't it?

 

[Old Rocks]

Is it not likely that Walleyes is really reaching? MWP was a regional event. The warming that we are seeing today is global. Not only that, but the CO2 increase that we see today can totally be accounted for by the amount of fossil fuels that we have used.

Once again, concerning your other nonsense about CO2 lagging temperature;

CO2 lags temperature - what does it mean?

What the science says...
When the Earth comes out of an ice age, the warming is not initiated by CO2 but by changes in the Earth's orbit. The warming causes the oceans to give up CO2. The CO2 amplifies the warming and mixes through the atmosphere, spreading warming throughout the planet. So CO2 causes warming AND rising temperature causes CO2 rise.


Over the last half million years, our climate has experienced long ice ages regularly punctuated by brief warm periods called interglacials. Atmospheric carbon dioxide closely matches the cycle, increasing by around 80 to 100 parts per million as Antarctic temperatures warm up to 10°C. However, when you look closer, CO2 actually lags temperature by around 1000 years. While this result was predicted two decades ago (Lorius 1990), it still surprises and confuses many. Does warming cause CO2 rise or the other way around? In actuality, the answer is both.

 

[konradv]

It's not just a question of warm vs cold, really. It's a matter of whether we're effecting the balance. To say that warm is better and we don't have to worry, is to ignore the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Ahhh but the alarmists ignore everything now don't they?

A little question for you here konrad.

Overwhelming evidence shows that CO2 levels rise approximately 800 years after the warming has begun. This is borne out in every ice core that has been sampled to the best of my knowledge. Do you agree?

Now if you agree with that simple premise. How long ago was the Medieval Warming Period? Approximately 800 years ago to save you some calculations.

So, if all the evidence that I have just presented is in fact correct, and pretty much all sides agree that the formentioned is in fact true. Is it not likely then that the current CO2 rise is mostly an artifice of the MWP?

And if that is true (which I think many scientists are starting to pay more attention to) it really isn't the gasses after all. It is yet another example of mother nature and how she operates. Isn't it?

What you quote may be true, but also irrelevant. So what if some of the CO2 is due to the MWP? That doesn't change the fact that we're adding to the load, so much so, that in days we emit more CO2 than all the volcanoes on earth do in a year. What of the especially potent GHGs that aren't even found in nature? Where did they come from? Talk of the MWP and 800 year lags is merely a distraction from the real story. When an infra-red photon is absorbed by a CO2 molecule it DOESN'T take 800 years to be re-emitted and simple statistics will tell you that 50% will travel towards earth, warming it.