War profiteers? Gm gets 60 billion, halliburton gets 12

[VaYank5150]

GM?
what about the UAW
and as far as GM goes, there chapter 7 without the 50-60 billion
How can you justify that with "there paying us back"
Again the UAW owns 18% of GM
where does that come from?
and here is your answer to "paying us back"
GM repaid its government loan with other government money, or that U.S. taxpayers could lose money on the roughly $50 billion they still have invested in General Motors.

In a letter to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner last week, Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, said the repayment "appears to be nothing more than an elaborate TARP money shuffle."

Treasury spokeswoman Meg Reilly says Geithner hopes to respond to Grassley's letter, perhaps by today. General Motors did not respond to calls for comment.

How did taxpayers get into this situation?

Before and during its bankruptcy, the U.S. Treasury loaned General Motors $49.5 billion from the Troubled Assets Relief Program.

When GM emerged from bankruptcy as a new company in July, the Treasury converted most of those loans into a 60.8 percent stake in the new company's common stock, $2.1 billion in preferred stock and $7.1 billion in loans. About $400 million in loans was repaid almost immediately, leaving GM with about $6.7 billion in government debt. The balance of the loan was originally due July 2015, but the date was later accelerated to June 30, 2010.

GM had already repaid $2 billion in loans. Last week, it announced it had repaid the remaining $4.7 billion.

The automaker, however, didn't repay any of the loans from its earnings. Repayments came from "other TARP funds currently held in an escrow account," according to a report by the special inspector general overseeing TARP funds.

This is good info. Thanks. Now, again, how much is Haliburton paying back?

Typically in a business venture in which you provide a service for someone you get paid for it
Being as though Halliburton has provided this service long before Bush was president and, well now they did provide this service in the first Iraq
Simply put they got paid for what they do
There was no loan or 'bail out"
they where not chapter 7
the Govt came to them as Clinton had and others had in the past
Your asking a question that as a good liberal does only creates an event that never took place

FINALLY....you understand MY point. Why would the OP attempt to draw an analogy between a loan and a payment for services? Strawman, perhaps?

 

[signelect]

GM is NOT paying the gov back, We can't even sell the stock the gov owns at a profit, how is that for an investment. Then lets talke a look at Barry's friend GE, profit out the gazoo and not tax paid. How is that fair. My wife and I are so far below the $250,000 level it is not funny and I have to pay taxes. What about the 47% who don't pay.

This is fact and we haven't even touched mismanagement.
s

 

[Dr.Drock]

The principle everyone is overlooking is it's americans being taxed more in order to do favors for certain companies that gov't is in bed with.

I don't care if it's a gift, a loan, a back room deal, a front room deal, it's ALL wrong.

 

[signelect]

Speaking of Haliburton is interesting because the libs want to tie it to the Republicans, work for me. Let go back into the 50's with good old Lyndon was running for office and flying around in Brown and Roots airplane, they were given a no bid deal in Viet Nam but of course you don't mention that.

We we need construction in a war zone only two orthree companies have the resources to do that. Who else do you pick?

 

[LibocalypseNow]

What's going with this White House and GE is criminal. GE has and is set to receive several $Billions more in so-called "Green" contracts. They also don't pay Taxes. The top GE Exec Jeffrey Immelt is this President's "Jobs Czar" for God's sake. How can the "Evil Corporation" Lefty Wingers ignore this stuff? This is corrupt cronyism at its worst. GE owns this President at this point. It's very sad.

 

[VaYank5150]

Speaking of Haliburton is interesting because the libs want to tie it to the Republicans, work for me. Let go back into the 50's with good old Lyndon was running for office and flying around in Brown and Roots airplane, they were given a no bid deal in Viet Nam but of course you don't mention that.

We we need construction in a war zone only two orthree companies have the resources to do that. Who else do you pick?

Back in WWII, our military forces did 100% of construction in a war zone. What happened?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Speaking of Haliburton is interesting because the libs want to tie it to the Republicans, work for me. Let go back into the 50's with good old Lyndon was running for office and flying around in Brown and Roots airplane, they were given a no bid deal in Viet Nam but of course you don't mention that.

We we need construction in a war zone only two orthree companies have the resources to do that. Who else do you pick?

No bid contracts is bad for the taxpayer, couldn't care less which party is in power whether it's republicrats or demicans.

I prefer the capitalism approach.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

GE doesn't even pay Taxes. Top GE Exec Jeffrey Immelt "Jobs Czar?" Talk about despicable corrupt cronyism? Yikes!

 

[Claudette]

GE doesn't even pay Taxes. Top GE Exec Jeffrey Immelt "Jobs Czar?" Talk about despicable corrupt cronyism? Yikes!

As disgusting as it seems Lib. GE broke no laws. They used one of those tax loopholes for business that needs to be closed.

Wonder why that tax loophole is still there??

 

[JRK]

Speaking of Haliburton is interesting because the libs want to tie it to the Republicans, work for me. Let go back into the 50's with good old Lyndon was running for office and flying around in Brown and Roots airplane, they were given a no bid deal in Viet Nam but of course you don't mention that.

We we need construction in a war zone only two orthree companies have the resources to do that. Who else do you pick?

No bid contracts is bad for the taxpayer, couldn't care less which party is in power whether it's republicrats or demicans.

I prefer the capitalism approach.

Ok let me explain to you why this is a no bid event
I have some experience here

1) security, these companies have to have employees that are full time and can maintain a certain clearance, for obvious reasons if you give it thought
2) mobilization ability from the foreman level to the manager level. This would include the understanding of a no bid contract. Just because its "time and material" means nothing if you do not know how to bill the "client"
3) Scope of work, you think a 3%, 5% profit on a guaranteed contract is bad? the amount of change orders from, well in a war zone you could not write a scope of work
Its not much to do with building a dorm and lunch room

Halliburton, Bechtel, and those who perform this kind of work maintain a staff along with specialty equipment that most companies have no reason to keep or purchase to start with. It is understood that allot of the equipment that is used is rented and it is also understood Bechtel is pure management
But there expertise as stated herein alone makes sense that it can only be a no bid, low T&M profit margin activity

 

[VaYank5150]

Speaking of Haliburton is interesting because the libs want to tie it to the Republicans, work for me. Let go back into the 50's with good old Lyndon was running for office and flying around in Brown and Roots airplane, they were given a no bid deal in Viet Nam but of course you don't mention that.

We we need construction in a war zone only two orthree companies have the resources to do that. Who else do you pick?

No bid contracts is bad for the taxpayer, couldn't care less which party is in power whether it's republicrats or demicans.

I prefer the capitalism approach.

Ok let me explain to you why this is a no bid event
I have some experience here

1) security, these companies have to have employees that are full time and can maintain a certain clearance, for obvious reasons if you give it thought
2) mobilization ability from the foreman level to the manager level. This would include the understanding of a no bid contract. Just because its "time and material" means nothing if you do not know how to bill the "client"
3) Scope of work, you think a 3%, 5% profit on a guaranteed contract is bad? the amount of change orders from, well in a war zone you could not write a scope of work
Its not much to do with building a dorm and lunch room

Halliburton, Bechtel, and those who perform this kind of work maintain a staff along with specialty equipment that most companies have no reason to keep or purchase to start with. It is understood that allot of the equipment that is used is rented and it is also understood Bechtel is pure management
But there expertise as stated herein alone makes sense that it can only be a no bid, low T&M profit margin activity

You claim to have experience in this realm. Please expalin. In my work as a contractor, I know how guaranteed pricing, gross margin and mark up, overhead coverage, etc is all played. Please explain your reference point when you say you have experience.

 

[JRK]

No bid contracts is bad for the taxpayer, couldn't care less which party is in power whether it's republicrats or demicans.

I prefer the capitalism approach.

Ok let me explain to you why this is a no bid event
I have some experience here

1) security, these companies have to have employees that are full time and can maintain a certain clearance, for obvious reasons if you give it thought
2) mobilization ability from the foreman level to the manager level. This would include the understanding of a no bid contract. Just because its "time and material" means nothing if you do not know how to bill the "client"
3) Scope of work, you think a 3%, 5% profit on a guaranteed contract is bad? the amount of change orders from, well in a war zone you could not write a scope of work
Its not much to do with building a dorm and lunch room

Halliburton, Bechtel, and those who perform this kind of work maintain a staff along with specialty equipment that most companies have no reason to keep or purchase to start with. It is understood that allot of the equipment that is used is rented and it is also understood Bechtel is pure management
But there expertise as stated herein alone makes sense that it can only be a no bid, low T&M profit margin activity

You claim to have experience in this realm. Please expalin. In my work as a contractor, I know how guaranteed pricing, gross margin and mark up, overhead coverage, etc is all played. Please explain your reference point when you say you have experience.

How much detail?
To start with Bechtel in general is a management firm
they would hire a contractor to perform the labor portion for them. It is my experience that they would use union labor or use Becon in a situation in which non union labor was being utilized
From the Const manager to the lowest level helper there time would be reimbursable
Each would have a unit rate per chargeable hour
this would be a rate that was all inclusive to have that individual doing what ever it was he or she would be doing
this rate would include consumables and small tools
this would be within the "contract" and would have been agreed upon long before there services where needed
Depending on the type of equipment it may or may not have fuel, oil, and maintenance included in its chargeable rate. This would be to keep things as simple as possible.
There would be a way whether it be with P-3 or a simple excel based spread sheet to that would be defined in the "contract" long before the service would be needed

Knowing the DOD it would have some form to fill out that would track these reimbursable cost daily and would have been approved daily
GF 4HR
Foreman 8 hr
Journey elec 8 men 8 hr
helper same
etc...
etc...
compressor 8 hr
pickup
fork lift etc....

Typically what is called an in direct, like the project manager, safety, etc... would have a separate way they would charge there time

All of my dealings with the DOD was hard money and we used P-3 to get paid
as the % of the job was approved (direct construction) the indirects would be covered in a separate chargeable time

more?

Look every thing such as refineries to power plants have contractors they typically have a "maintenance" agreement with contractors such as Flour Daniels that can deal with there needs. What the liberal mind will never understand (I wonder why) just dealing with a DOD scope of work is a specialty in its self
from form 1-16^B1142 to how you charge for toilet paper
This group in a crises would provide those services no different than Flour does for your local power plant
part of your light bill pays for that service the same you tax dollar paid Halliburton

 

[STREICHER187]

Watch the movie Iraq for sale and you won't feel the same about Haliburton. What they get paid and the way they screw over the troops is just sick.


Then you have KBR who allowed a female employee to get raped (and is accused of paying Iraqi children 1.00 for sex for it's employees) and then cover up the rape which the republicans later voted was ok that the company had more rights then a rape victim.

 

[JRK]

Watch the movie Iraq for sale and you won't feel the same about Haliburton. What they get paid and the way they screw over the troops is just sick.


Then you have KBR who allowed a female employee to get raped (and is accused of paying Iraqi children 1.00 for sex for it's employees) and then cover up the rape which the republicans later voted was ok that the company had more rights then a rape victim.

My thread is not a defense of anything
And I am sure if I watched a movie made by anyone trying to spin any event I would find it disgusting
This is where this country is in trouble
When Micheal Moore makes a movie about how evil capitalism is and charges people money to go and watch it
well that should cover that
I am not saying there was events
My thread is about how up-side down it really is
GWB was evil because his admin removed an evil man from power, took the fight to the terrorist in there back yard and hired a company to support that effort
Its been a non stop hate and lie filled spam sense

The UAW gets billions of printed cash for nothing, for free
and not a word
Its upside down

 

[editec]

Our governments, FEDERAL STATE and local too, are conduits through which tools pay off their masters.

This isn't a socialist problem, this isn't a capitalist problem this is a CORRUPTION problem.

But as long as enough of your are falling for the conceiet that YOUR GUYS on YOUR POLICITICAL TEAM are the good guys, and those other guys are the bad guys?

Nothing will be done about the duelopoly and the nation will continue to be a host for a large number of corporate PARASITES.

Parasites whose total costs to taxpayers are far in excess of all the social welfare programs combined, I note.

 

[Dr.Drock]

JRK defending government using taxpayer funds to do favors for certain cherry-picked companies when Republicans do it, and it's the worst thing in the world when Democrats do it.


Sad what our parties do to the principles of people .

 

[uscitizen]

Umm who makes the Humvee and other military vehicles?

 

[JRK]

Our governments, FEDERAL STATE and local too, are conduits through which tools pay off their masters.

This isn't a socialist problem, this isn't a capitalist problem this is a CORRUPTION problem.

But as long as enough of your are falling for the conceiet that YOUR GUYS on YOUR POLICITICAL TEAM are the good guys, and those other guys are the bad guys?

Nothing will be done about the duelopoly and the nation will continue to be a host for a large number of corporate PARASITES.

Parasites whose total costs to taxpayers are far in excess of all the social welfare programs combined, I note.

There you go again
Do not confuse information with political debate
There is no doubt in my mind if we all would just look at these events from the realm of pure information Obama would be still working as a community organizer and GWB would be seen as what he was, on of the best

Funny?

again its just information
Halliburton provided a service for our country
made there profit as was agreed upon long before W was in the white house
in the line of fire
And whether you think Saddam and that entire event was an event that should have never taken place, the will of the people said different

They also said different than what Obama did for the UAW

Yet "Bush lied and people died" for some Halliburton profit I guess
The 50+ billion GM (UAW) got, not a peep

 

[VaYank5150]

Ok let me explain to you why this is a no bid event
I have some experience here

1) security, these companies have to have employees that are full time and can maintain a certain clearance, for obvious reasons if you give it thought
2) mobilization ability from the foreman level to the manager level. This would include the understanding of a no bid contract. Just because its "time and material" means nothing if you do not know how to bill the "client"
3) Scope of work, you think a 3%, 5% profit on a guaranteed contract is bad? the amount of change orders from, well in a war zone you could not write a scope of work
Its not much to do with building a dorm and lunch room

Halliburton, Bechtel, and those who perform this kind of work maintain a staff along with specialty equipment that most companies have no reason to keep or purchase to start with. It is understood that allot of the equipment that is used is rented and it is also understood Bechtel is pure management
But there expertise as stated herein alone makes sense that it can only be a no bid, low T&M profit margin activity

You claim to have experience in this realm. Please expalin. In my work as a contractor, I know how guaranteed pricing, gross margin and mark up, overhead coverage, etc is all played. Please explain your reference point when you say you have experience.

How much detail?
To start with Bechtel in general is a management firm
they would hire a contractor to perform the labor portion for them. It is my experience that they would use union labor or use Becon in a situation in which non union labor was being utilized
From the Const manager to the lowest level helper there time would be reimbursable
Each would have a unit rate per chargeable hour
this would be a rate that was all inclusive to have that individual doing what ever it was he or she would be doing
this rate would include consumables and small tools
this would be within the "contract" and would have been agreed upon long before there services where needed
Depending on the type of equipment it may or may not have fuel, oil, and maintenance included in its chargeable rate. This would be to keep things as simple as possible.
There would be a way whether it be with P-3 or a simple excel based spread sheet to that would be defined in the "contract" long before the service would be needed

Knowing the DOD it would have some form to fill out that would track these reimbursable cost daily and would have been approved daily
GF 4HR
Foreman 8 hr
Journey elec 8 men 8 hr
helper same
etc...
etc...
compressor 8 hr
pickup
fork lift etc....

Typically what is called an in direct, like the project manager, safety, etc... would have a separate way they would charge there time

All of my dealings with the DOD was hard money and we used P-3 to get paid
as the % of the job was approved (direct construction) the indirects would be covered in a separate chargeable time

more?

Look every thing such as refineries to power plants have contractors they typically have a "maintenance" agreement with contractors such as Flour Daniels that can deal with there needs. What the liberal mind will never understand (I wonder why) just dealing with a DOD scope of work is a specialty in its self
from form 1-16^B1142 to how you charge for toilet paper
This group in a crises would provide those services no different than Flour does for your local power plant
part of your light bill pays for that service the same you tax dollar paid Halliburton

So, were/are you on the government side of things or the contractor side of things?

 

[asterism]

Follow the money: Bailout tracker - CNNMoney.com

I keep reading in these threads about "war profiteering'
and this is why we went to Iraq
Hell why would any-one put there selves in harms way with Obama handing out billions for nothing?

GM is paying back their loan. How much is Haliburton paying back, again?

GM paid one of their loans back, using another gift the government gave GM during bankruptcy reorganization. That allowed them to qualify for another loan which they took. This is on top of the previous gift that GM got to prevent that bankruptcy. Then GM got a sweetheart deal by having the government buy most of the stock that few others wanted since it was a near guaranteed loser. Last year the government diluted its 66% share in the company to half that to allow GM to raise $20 Billion. This week the government has announced its plans to sell most of the remaining stock for another loss.

So $49.5 Billion given or loaned to GM as a special deal, $10 Billion loaned to GM for a Department of Energy "green jobs investment," $6.7 Billion paid back, and all the government has now is $15 Billion (33% of a company valued at $46 Billion).

All to temporarily save 70,000 jobs here and create 20,000 jobs in China. Is this how liberal math works?



(that's $540,000 per US job)